The Wizard of Özil

[Power n Glory]

He treated Ozil shabbily. Leaving him out of the 25 man squad was a way to publicly humiliate him. Don’t think Ozil deserved that. You reap what you sow.

He may have but try to understand that you won't see Ozil play for Arsenal again because it's a complete breakdown between both camps.

[swipe right]

He treated Ozil shabbily. Leaving him out of the 25 man squad was a way to publicly humiliate him. Don’t think Ozil deserved that. You reap what you sow.

He may have but try to understand that you won't see Ozil play for Arsenal again because it's a complete breakdown between both camps.

We all know that. Unless Arteta is fired. If we go another month with these results Arteta is screwed. It’ll be a shame because there is a promising manager in him. He won’t get another shot at the big time like this one in a hurry. All to make a point to Ozil. Jeez what a fool.

[Highbury Hillbilly]

He treated Ozil shabbily. Leaving him out of the 25 man squad was a way to publicly humiliate him. Don’t think Ozil deserved that. You reap what you sow.

shabby treatment would be to leave a player out of the squad and block a transfer elsewhere, which is what Utd did to Sergio Romero this summer.

Ozil on the other hand has been free to leave for a while. He's been out of the squad since March, so if he wanted to play football, his agent had months to figure something out.

[swipe right]

He treated Ozil shabbily. Leaving him out of the 25 man squad was a way to publicly humiliate him. Don’t think Ozil deserved that. You reap what you sow.

shabby treatment would be to leave a player out of the squad and block a transfer elsewhere, which is what Utd did to Sergio Romero this summer.

Ozil on the other hand has been free to leave for a while. He's been out of the squad since March, so if he wanted to play football, his agent had months to figure something out.

That is also true.

[theHotHead]

EK, are the players really that bad ? I don't think so at all. Its all well and good saying its the 4th manager they have seen off but the personnel is not the same and when managers are frankly idiotic, how can the players be blamed ?!!

Arsene Wenger's main squad during his final season was (league):
Mkhi, Ramsey, Laca, Wilshere, Auba, Ozil, Holding, Iwobi, Monreal, Mustafi, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Xhaka, Kolasinac, Cech, Elneny.

Emery's main squad during his last season was (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Sokratis, Ceballos, Laca, Ozil, Torreira, Auba, AMN, Pepe, Mustafi, Chambers, Luiz, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Saka

Arteta's main squad this season (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Tierney, Gabriel, Saka, Ceballos, Laca, Willian, Auba, Holding, Pepe, Luiz, Elneny, Xhaka

Only Bellerin, Laca, Auba, Holding, Xhaka, Elneny played under Wenger. Emery didn't give Elneny game time. The players in this list that I don't think should be called Arsenal players are Holding, Xhaka and Elneny. We all know they are sub standard, but subsequent managers have not replaced them !! I call that managerial stupidity. No way Vinai and co would veto their sales, had the then Head Coaches wanted to get rid of them. Bellerin in fact is lucky to still be called an Arsenal player, he too is sub standard.

Then, lets not forget Emery's attempt at playing Torreira - a recognised DM as a more attcking midfielder. Lets not forget the second half transformations and substitutions during the unbeaten run that saved his skin. I can't blame the players when the Head Coach is total knob.

I don't need to explain Wenger's shortcomings, needless to say I can't blame the players or find fault with them, how can you be expected to perform to your ability when the manager is totally clueless to the issues.

Arteta is an interesting one, because he has proven that the players ARE capable of playing better as a team, he got the very same players defending better whilst not affecting their offensive capability. Then, he decides to shift the sliding scale and go hella defensive, whilst not playing Ozil who at least can link play. The end result has been some of the most embarrassing and dreadful performances I have seen from Arsenal in the Premier League era. And now, because of his dreadful tinkering, lineups and systems, he has completely blunted our attack AND the defence has turned leaky again.

How can anyone blame the players ? I gave Arteta the credit for turning us around, NOT the players, so I am blaming Arteta for our demise. The players are capable of better, unless those who blame the players think that 14th in the league is their level ........ which is utter nonsense.

[EliteKiller]

EK, are the players really that bad ? I don't think so at all. Its all well and good saying its the 4th manager they have seen off but the personnel is not the same and when managers are frankly idiotic, how can the players be blamed ?!!

Arsene Wenger's main squad during his final season was (league):
Mkhi, Ramsey, Laca, Wilshere, Auba, Ozil, Holding, Iwobi, Monreal, Mustafi, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Xhaka, Kolasinac, Cech, Elneny.

Emery's main squad during his last season was (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Sokratis, Ceballos, Laca, Ozil, Torreira, Auba, AMN, Pepe, Mustafi, Chambers, Luiz, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Saka

Arteta's main squad this season (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Tierney, Gabriel, Saka, Ceballos, Laca, Willian, Auba, Holding, Pepe, Luiz, Elneny, Xhaka

Only Bellerin, Laca, Auba, Holding, Xhaka, Elneny played under Wenger. Emery didn't give Elneny game time. The players in this list that I don't think should be called Arsenal players are Holding, Xhaka and Elneny. We all know they are sub standard, but subsequent managers have not replaced them !! I call that managerial stupidity. No way Vinai and co would veto their sales, had the then Head Coaches wanted to get rid of them. Bellerin in fact is lucky to still be called an Arsenal player, he too is sub standard.

Then, lets not forget Emery's attempt at playing Torreira - a recognised DM as a more attcking midfielder. Lets not forget the second half transformations and substitutions during the unbeaten run that saved his skin. I can't blame the players when the Head Coach is total knob.

I don't need to explain Wenger's shortcomings, needless to say I can't blame the players or find fault with them, how can you be expected to perform to your ability when the manager is totally clueless to the issues.

Arteta is an interesting one, because he has proven that the players ARE capable of playing better as a team, he got the very same players defending better whilst not affecting their offensive capability. Then, he decides to shift the sliding scale and go hella defensive, whilst not playing Ozil who at least can link play. The end result has been some of the most embarrassing and dreadful performances I have seen from Arsenal in the Premier League era. And now, because of his dreadful tinkering, lineups and systems, he has completely blunted our attack AND the defence has turned leaky again.

How can anyone blame the players ? I gave Arteta the credit for turning us around, NOT the players, so I am blaming Arteta for our demise. The players are capable of better, unless those who blame the players think that 14th in the league is their level ........ which is utter nonsense.

Again I get your point ... but you miss a key element ... Holding, Xhaka and Elneny are all on contracts no other club are interested in matching - even if a buyer could be found that player would have to be willing to accept a huge pay-cut to move. A manager can't replace a player if in reality he can't get rid of them, he can kick them out of the squad, but look how that's worked out, or her can pay them off and clearly we couldn't afford to do that.

We have this issue with Ozil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Luiz, Willian, Soares and now we've added Auba ... we can't sell these players because their contracts are to expensive, it's almost certain that they will all run down and another seven players will need replacing with almost no transfer income.

This is the very problem that Wenger created with his crazy egalitarian contract policy, a policy which we simply can't seem to get away from.

Maybe this summer we will have the balls to deal with it - out will go Luiz, Ozil, Willian, Sokratis, Auba, Laca, Soares, Mustafi - the downside is that these exits will raise barely 100m and we will need well over 300m to fill those squad places .... so where does that come from?

In reality just like the last four years we will do a patch job - we will keep three or four players we all know aren't anywhere near Arsenal quality, players who should leave. Why? because even on their huge wages it's cheaper to keep them for another year than buy an Arsenal quality replacement, so Laca, Auba, Willian, Xhaka probably all stay - thus once again pushing a problem to another summer, and likely another manager.

That's before we've even looked at the upgrades so badly needed for Ceballos, Elneny, Bellerin ....

So yes the players are 'that bad' not just in terms of performance but also in terms of their asset value ... if we had an oligarch or a sheikh not a problem, they can bin a 72m keeper without a care ... but like most clubs we simply can't, we're now in a very deep hole and we're still digging ... at some point we are going to have to change to the Spurs/Liverpool/Leicester where you sell em' high not watch them retire, if we don't then top four might as well be on the moon.

[Power n Glory]

He treated Ozil shabbily. Leaving him out of the 25 man squad was a way to publicly humiliate him. Don’t think Ozil deserved that. You reap what you sow.

He may have but try to understand that you won't see Ozil play for Arsenal again because it's a complete breakdown between both camps.

We all know that. Unless Arteta is fired. If we go another month with these results Arteta is screwed. It’ll be a shame because there is a promising manager in him. He won’t get another shot at the big time like this one in a hurry. All to make a point to Ozil. Jeez what a fool.

You say that but even in your post above there is a slight hope that he plays for us again. I don't have much sympathy for Ozil in this situation because as aniym said, he should have left the club.

I don't have much sympathy for Arteta either because if he hasn't been fair with Ozil it just makes him look like an asshole. The team can see what's going on in the background. During Arteta's press conference after dropping Ozil from the squad he said something about 'being able to look players in the eye knowing he's comfortable with his decision'. That's a strong statement to make and if untrue and Ozil has been left unfairly....which of his players will respect that?

Outside of Ozil, we've seen how he's handled Guendouzi, Pepe, Saliba, Willian.....it will start to add up if he's not careful. I'm not enthused by his recent quote about needing several transfer windows to improve the squad either. I think Ozil would have been a challenge for any coach, it's how other players have been handled that concerns me more because Ozil only has a matter of months left with the club.

[themessiah]

EK, are the players really that bad ? I don't think so at all. Its all well and good saying its the 4th manager they have seen off but the personnel is not the same and when managers are frankly idiotic, how can the players be blamed ?!!

Arsene Wenger's main squad during his final season was (league):
Mkhi, Ramsey, Laca, Wilshere, Auba, Ozil, Holding, Iwobi, Monreal, Mustafi, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Xhaka, Kolasinac, Cech, Elneny.

Emery's main squad during his last season was (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Sokratis, Ceballos, Laca, Ozil, Torreira, Auba, AMN, Pepe, Mustafi, Chambers, Luiz, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Saka

Arteta's main squad this season (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Tierney, Gabriel, Saka, Ceballos, Laca, Willian, Auba, Holding, Pepe, Luiz, Elneny, Xhaka

Only Bellerin, Laca, Auba, Holding, Xhaka, Elneny played under Wenger. Emery didn't give Elneny game time. The players in this list that I don't think should be called Arsenal players are Holding, Xhaka and Elneny. We all know they are sub standard, but subsequent managers have not replaced them !! I call that managerial stupidity. No way Vinai and co would veto their sales, had the then Head Coaches wanted to get rid of them. Bellerin in fact is lucky to still be called an Arsenal player, he too is sub standard.

Then, lets not forget Emery's attempt at playing Torreira - a recognised DM as a more attcking midfielder. Lets not forget the second half transformations and substitutions during the unbeaten run that saved his skin. I can't blame the players when the Head Coach is total knob.

I don't need to explain Wenger's shortcomings, needless to say I can't blame the players or find fault with them, how can you be expected to perform to your ability when the manager is totally clueless to the issues.

Arteta is an interesting one, because he has proven that the players ARE capable of playing better as a team, he got the very same players defending better whilst not affecting their offensive capability. Then, he decides to shift the sliding scale and go hella defensive, whilst not playing Ozil who at least can link play. The end result has been some of the most embarrassing and dreadful performances I have seen from Arsenal in the Premier League era. And now, because of his dreadful tinkering, lineups and systems, he has completely blunted our attack AND the defence has turned leaky again.

How can anyone blame the players ? I gave Arteta the credit for turning us around, NOT the players, so I am blaming Arteta for our demise. The players are capable of better, unless those who blame the players think that 14th in the league is their level ........ which is utter nonsense.

Again I get your point ... but you miss a key element ... Holding, Xhaka and Elneny are all on contracts no other club are interested in matching - even if a buyer could be found that player would have to be willing to accept a huge pay-cut to move. A manager can't replace a player if in reality he can't get rid of them, he can kick them out of the squad, but look how that's worked out, or her can pay them off and clearly we couldn't afford to do that.

We have this issue with Ozil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Luiz, Willian, Soares and now we've added Auba ... we can't sell these players because their contracts are to expensive, it's almost certain that they will all run down and another seven players will need replacing with almost no transfer income.

This is the very problem that Wenger created with his crazy egalitarian contract policy, a policy which we simply can't seem to get away from.

Maybe this summer we will have the balls to deal with it - out will go Luiz, Ozil, Willian, Sokratis, Auba, Laca, Soares, Mustafi - the downside is that these exits will raise barely 100m and we will need well over 300m to fill those squad places .... so where does that come from?

In reality just like the last four years we will do a patch job - we will keep three or four players we all know aren't anywhere near Arsenal quality, players who should leave. Why? because even on their huge wages it's cheaper to keep them for another year than buy an Arsenal quality replacement, so Laca, Auba, Willian, Xhaka probably all stay - thus once again pushing a problem to another summer, and likely another manager.

That's before we've even looked at the upgrades so badly needed for Ceballos, Elneny, Bellerin ....

So yes the players are 'that bad' not just in terms of performance but also in terms of their asset value ... if we had an oligarch or a sheikh not a problem, they can bin a 72m keeper without a care ... but like most clubs we simply can't, we're now in a very deep hole and we're still digging ... at some point we are going to have to change to the Spurs/Liverpool/Leicester where you sell em' high not watch them retire, if we don't then top four might as well be on the moon.

He has been frozen out and Rightly so

Aye, cause Özil is our f***ing saviour. Remind you of the Emery era much? How did he repay Emery, oh yeah, battered 4-1 in Baku. Ozil is a tremendous human being, however, as a footballer, he needs to go elsewhere. He's finished. Ozil isn’t the answer ffs

Unai, Freddie and Arteta all dropped Ozil for his attitude, and Wenger admitted that neither he nor our medical staff could explain Ozil’s mystery illnesses or mystery back injury. So maybe, just maybe, Mesut isn’t our saviour after all.

[jayramfootball]

EK, are the players really that bad ? I don't think so at all. Its all well and good saying its the 4th manager they have seen off but the personnel is not the same and when managers are frankly idiotic, how can the players be blamed ?!!

Arsene Wenger's main squad during his final season was (league):
Mkhi, Ramsey, Laca, Wilshere, Auba, Ozil, Holding, Iwobi, Monreal, Mustafi, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Xhaka, Kolasinac, Cech, Elneny.

Emery's main squad during his last season was (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Sokratis, Ceballos, Laca, Ozil, Torreira, Auba, AMN, Pepe, Mustafi, Chambers, Luiz, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Saka

Arteta's main squad this season (league):
Leno, Bellerin, Tierney, Gabriel, Saka, Ceballos, Laca, Willian, Auba, Holding, Pepe, Luiz, Elneny, Xhaka

Only Bellerin, Laca, Auba, Holding, Xhaka, Elneny played under Wenger. Emery didn't give Elneny game time. The players in this list that I don't think should be called Arsenal players are Holding, Xhaka and Elneny. We all know they are sub standard, but subsequent managers have not replaced them !! I call that managerial stupidity. No way Vinai and co would veto their sales, had the then Head Coaches wanted to get rid of them. Bellerin in fact is lucky to still be called an Arsenal player, he too is sub standard.

Then, lets not forget Emery's attempt at playing Torreira - a recognised DM as a more attcking midfielder. Lets not forget the second half transformations and substitutions during the unbeaten run that saved his skin. I can't blame the players when the Head Coach is total knob.

I don't need to explain Wenger's shortcomings, needless to say I can't blame the players or find fault with them, how can you be expected to perform to your ability when the manager is totally clueless to the issues.

Arteta is an interesting one, because he has proven that the players ARE capable of playing better as a team, he got the very same players defending better whilst not affecting their offensive capability. Then, he decides to shift the sliding scale and go hella defensive, whilst not playing Ozil who at least can link play. The end result has been some of the most embarrassing and dreadful performances I have seen from Arsenal in the Premier League era. And now, because of his dreadful tinkering, lineups and systems, he has completely blunted our attack AND the defence has turned leaky again.

How can anyone blame the players ? I gave Arteta the credit for turning us around, NOT the players, so I am blaming Arteta for our demise. The players are capable of better, unless those who blame the players think that 14th in the league is their level ........ which is utter nonsense.

Again I get your point ... but you miss a key element ... Holding, Xhaka and Elneny are all on contracts no other club are interested in matching - even if a buyer could be found that player would have to be willing to accept a huge pay-cut to move. A manager can't replace a player if in reality he can't get rid of them, he can kick them out of the squad, but look how that's worked out, or her can pay them off and clearly we couldn't afford to do that.

We have this issue with Ozil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Luiz, Willian, Soares and now we've added Auba ... we can't sell these players because their contracts are to expensive, it's almost certain that they will all run down and another seven players will need replacing with almost no transfer income.

This is the very problem that Wenger created with his crazy egalitarian contract policy, a policy which we simply can't seem to get away from.

Maybe this summer we will have the balls to deal with it - out will go Luiz, Ozil, Willian, Sokratis, Auba, Laca, Soares, Mustafi - the downside is that these exits will raise barely 100m and we will need well over 300m to fill those squad places .... so where does that come from?

In reality just like the last four years we will do a patch job - we will keep three or four players we all know aren't anywhere near Arsenal quality, players who should leave. Why? because even on their huge wages it's cheaper to keep them for another year than buy an Arsenal quality replacement, so Laca, Auba, Willian, Xhaka probably all stay - thus once again pushing a problem to another summer, and likely another manager.

That's before we've even looked at the upgrades so badly needed for Ceballos, Elneny, Bellerin ....

So yes the players are 'that bad' not just in terms of performance but also in terms of their asset value ... if we had an oligarch or a sheikh not a problem, they can bin a 72m keeper without a care ... but like most clubs we simply can't, we're now in a very deep hole and we're still digging ... at some point we are going to have to change to the Spurs/Liverpool/Leicester where you sell em' high not watch them retire, if we don't then top four might as well be on the moon.

He has been frozen out and Rightly so

Aye, cause Özil is our f***ing saviour. Remind you of the Emery era much? How did he repay Emery, oh yeah, battered 4-1 in Baku. Ozil is a tremendous human being, however, as a footballer, he needs to go elsewhere. He's finished. Ozil isn’t the answer ffs

Unai, Freddie and Arteta all dropped Ozil for his attitude, and Wenger admitted that neither he nor our medical staff could explain Ozil’s mystery illnesses or mystery back injury. So maybe, just maybe, Mesut isn’t our saviour after all.

Disagree - he was frozen out for non-football reasons.
Ljunberg did not drop him for his attitude. His recent interview explains how highly he rates Ozil, how well he trains, bu how is right for certain matches and not others.
Emery had to concede.
So will Arteta.

Ozil is not THE answer, that is where I agree.
Ozil is AN answer, short term - i.e. half a season - to our complete inability to create enough chances.

[thebigbangtheo]

Apparently, this Ozil thread can now be seen from the international space station. Imagine it if he'd been playing the last 18 months!

[theHotHead]

EK, whilst I accept your argument about asset value I do not agree with your assessment that the players are that bad. Sorry, I think that part is way off.

Whilst Arteta wasn't being a fucktard we put in some good performances, there was significant improvement in the performances until the end of the season, we even won a trophy on the strength of those improved performances.

Under Emery in 2019/20, in the 17 games (ok 2 or 3 managed by Freddie) we were on 1.294 pts per game, which would have been good for a total of 49 pts, putting us joint 12th with Everton.

Under Arteta we finished the season (21 games) on an average of 1.619 pts per game, which would put us on 61 pts, level 6th with Spurs and a jump of 2 places from where we eventually finished.

Thats the improvement I am talking about, it was very clear the players adjusted well to Arteta's approach. They were and still are capable of better.

[EliteKiller]

EK, whilst I accept your argument about asset value I do not agree with your assessment that the players are that bad. Sorry, I think that part is way off.

Whilst Arteta wasn't being a fucktard we put in some good performances, there was significant improvement in the performances until the end of the season, we even won a trophy on the strength of those improved performances.

Under Emery in 2019/20, in the 17 games (ok 2 or 3 managed by Freddie) we were on 1.294 pts per game, which would have been good for a total of 49 pts, putting us joint 12th with Everton.

Under Arteta we finished the season (21 games) on an average of 1.619 pts per game, which would put us on 61 pts, level 6th with Spurs and a jump of 2 places from where we eventually finished.

Thats the improvement I am talking about, it was very clear the players adjusted well to Arteta's approach. They were and still are capable of better.

We probably won't ever agree on this - EPL teams are the sum of their parts - Leicester won a title with some pretty average players, but that was the exception not the rule.

If you take any section of our squad - Keepers - Defenders - Midfield - Strikers and then line them up against City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Utd squads that's 20 comparisons, we probably come out top just a couple of times.

Maybe calling them 'bad players' isn't fair, but by no stretch of the imagination are they title or CL winning quality and that's what they should be at our club, take this weekend's game, how many Arsenal players and how many Spurs players in a combined eighteen? The pundits will all be putting up their thoughts on Friday it won't look good.

Arteta's approach has been to try and improve the defence, he's done that but at the expense of the attack, IMO that's because far too many players are far too limited to do more than one thing ... that's a quality issue much more than a tactical one. If one manager had failed to make us better then fair enough, but when three have now tried and failed you have to think just maybe it's the material they are expected to work with that's the real problem.

[theHotHead]

No no no absolutely not can this lot challenge for the League or CL.There are 3 things I want to make clear. The first is that, this squad is nowhere near as good as any of our rivals, Man U included. The second is that our squad is better than everyone else's. The third is that our squad should be performing at a far higher level than it has done for the past 5 or so years, but due to idiotic decisions from managers we never see the team perform at the level they should be performing at.

Which is why I say most of the players at Arsenal are not actually Arsenal level. If I had my way the only players I would keep are Partey, Tierney, Gabriel and possibly Auba and Leno. I never really rated Auba that much when he was at Dortmund and I think Emi is a better keeper than Leno - on the short number of games he has played for us and his games at Villa so far.

The erosion of quality from the squad is palpable, unfortnately it has become the new norm but we should be striving for far better.

[jayramfootball]

No no no absolutely not can this lot challenge for the League or CL.There are 3 things I want to make clear. The first is that, this squad is nowhere near as good as any of our rivals, Man U included. The second is that our squad is better than everyone else's. The third is that our squad should be performing at a far higher level than it has done for the past 5 or so years, but due to idiotic decisions from managers we never see the team perform at the level they should be performing at.

Which is why I say most of the players at Arsenal are not actually Arsenal level. If I had my way the only players I would keep are Partey, Tierney, Gabriel and possibly Auba and Leno. I never really rated Auba that much when he was at Dortmund and I think Emi is a better keeper than Leno - on the short number of games he has played for us and his games at Villa so far.

The erosion of quality from the squad is palpable, unfortnately it has become the new norm but we should be striving for far better.

I think the quality of our squad is perfectly represented in our league position - maybe we should be a couple of places higher, but no more.
Wolves squad, for example, is better than ours and if we mixed squads with them, only 3-4 of our players would make it into their first team.
I think people still overestimate our players - maybe because our players cost a lot.

[swipe right]

No no no absolutely not can this lot challenge for the League or CL.There are 3 things I want to make clear. The first is that, this squad is nowhere near as good as any of our rivals, Man U included. The second is that our squad is better than everyone else's. The third is that our squad should be performing at a far higher level than it has done for the past 5 or so years, but due to idiotic decisions from managers we never see the team perform at the level they should be performing at.

Which is why I say most of the players at Arsenal are not actually Arsenal level. If I had my way the only players I would keep are Partey, Tierney, Gabriel and possibly Auba and Leno. I never really rated Auba that much when he was at Dortmund and I think Emi is a better keeper than Leno - on the short number of games he has played for us and his games at Villa so far.

The erosion of quality from the squad is palpable, unfortnately it has become the new norm but we should be striving for far better.

I think the quality of our squad is perfectly represented in our league position - maybe we should be a couple of places higher, but no more.
Wolves squad, for example, is better than ours and if we mixed squads with them, only 3-4 of our players would make it into their first team.
I think people still overestimate our players - maybe because our players cost a lot.

That’s a tough one to agree with. There is enough quality in our squad to be in the top half. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. .