The Wizard of Özil

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby VCC » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:58 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Alexis wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Of course Wenger is going to back Ozil. The problems we have fall back on his decisions. From the babying to the ridiculous contract. It's part of his influence and what was left behind. No other manager would tolerate this nonsense hence why we are where we are with Ozil.


It was bald prick gazidis that gave him that contract. Wenger was against it


Let's not pretend that Wenger was ignorant when it came to contract negotiations and demands. If he felt Ozil was too difficult to manage he could have told the club to focus on making a deal with Sanchez. For years we spoke on being prudent and not doing deals that could put the club in financial trouble. Keeping the values of the club and looking out for our future. He was also against offering massive contracts to players in their 30s.

The deal Ozil is on is nuts. The base salary along with appearance and loyalty bonuses....Gazidis and Wenger have to take some responsibility for that and it's an absolute piss take considering the players we let walk for free or cheap in comparison. Heck, just go back and recall his treatment of Bergkamp in his latter years, the one year contracts and the busts ups they had with Bergkamp fighting to play but Wenger reluctant to start him. It's a joke to hear his stance on Ozil today.

Good point Ozil isn't fit to lace Bergkamp boots
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Angelito » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:19 pm

A few pointers:

- Wenger left a few months after Ozil signed his contract extension; by 2016, a power tussle between Gazidis and Wenger had already ensued;

- Pep said that City couldn't afford Alexis' wages;

- Gazidis and Josh were more hands-on since before Wenger signed that extension in 2017, hence, Wenger's rant on what a DoF does in a press conference;

- Even if you consider Lacazette as a core Wenger signing, he's never paid any player over £160k a week and was willing to sell Alexis in the summer of 2017, before Alexis and City couldn't agree on a deal; Pep has since declared how City could not "afford" Alexis; subsequently, ManU came around and paid him £450k a week.

To be fair to Ivan, at the time, Ozil absolutely deserved that extension and that pay bump. It was Ivan, Raul, and Josh's fault that we ended up hiring Unai Emery—a manager who should never have been here at the first place.

If we were ambitious, Conte was available at the time. A different kind of manager, a complicated figure, but he was available. We didn't go for him because we didn't want a larger than life personality after Wenger.

Blaming Wenger might warrant a sound sleep, but it doesn't correct the wrongs we've done since then.

Like in life, learn to live with failures.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:37 pm

Gazidis, Kroenke, Josh and Wenger can all take responsibility for that contract. I don't think he came up with the bonus structure and finer details but I don't think he was ignorant of it. I also don't think it was something he stood against otherwise he wouldn't be out here saying Ozil should play. He'd probably be preaching about the dangers of massive contracts in the modern game.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Nuggets » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 pm

VCC wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Alexis wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Of course Wenger is going to back Ozil. The problems we have fall back on his decisions. From the babying to the ridiculous contract. It's part of his influence and what was left behind. No other manager would tolerate this nonsense hence why we are where we are with Ozil.


It was bald prick gazidis that gave him that contract. Wenger was against it


Let's not pretend that Wenger was ignorant when it came to contract negotiations and demands. If he felt Ozil was too difficult to manage he could have told the club to focus on making a deal with Sanchez. For years we spoke on being prudent and not doing deals that could put the club in financial trouble. Keeping the values of the club and looking out for our future. He was also against offering massive contracts to players in their 30s.

The deal Ozil is on is nuts. The base salary along with appearance and loyalty bonuses....Gazidis and Wenger have to take some responsibility for that and it's an absolute piss take considering the players we let walk for free or cheap in comparison. Heck, just go back and recall his treatment of Bergkamp in his latter years, the one year contracts and the busts ups they had with Bergkamp fighting to play but Wenger reluctant to start him. It's a joke to hear his stance on Ozil today.

Good point Ozil isn't fit to lace Bergkamp boots

Correct.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby aniym » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:16 pm

Angelito wrote:A few pointers:

To be fair to Ivan, at the time, Ozil absolutely deserved that extension and that pay bump. It was Ivan, Raul, and Josh's fault that we ended up hiring Unai Emery—a manager who should never have been here at the first place.

If we were ambitious, Conte was available at the time. A different kind of manager, a complicated figure, but he was available. We didn't go for him because we didn't want a larger than life personality after Wenger.

Blaming Wenger might warrant a sound sleep, but it doesn't correct the wrongs we've done since then.

Like in life, learn to live with failures.


We would never have hired Conte because he is a loose cannon, he spends massively and usually only stays 2 years at a club. We were in a rebuilding phase, trying to get back into CL, and Conte is about the last person you want for that job.

He would also have dropped Ozil far faster than Emery did. Ozil was used to a certain level of accommodation from Wenger. Conte doesn't play that shit.

Look at how he set up his Chelsea midfield. 2 DMs centrally, and 2 wide players (hazard/willian) supporting Costa in attack. Ozil doesn't have a place in that setup. He isn't a DM, and doesn't pose enough of a goal threat to be played in a wide role.

He would have to adapt massively, and his unwillingness to do that for 3 managers running is the entire crux of the problem.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby LMAO » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:32 pm

Angelito wrote:If we were ambitious, Conte was available at the time. A different kind of manager, a complicated figure, but he was available. We didn't go for him because we didn't want a larger than life personality after Wenger.


tbf Conte would've dropped Ozil on day one.

EDIT: What aniym said.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Ach » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:43 pm

We'd have moses and young as wing backs.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:11 pm

Arteta's one size fits all authoritarian approach to management has been the one (big) downside of what I have seen from him so far.
The problem with his style is that it's great when we're winning, but quickly turns to sh*t when the going gets tough.
The players will abandon him at the first opportunity to shift blame from themselves when it goes badly.
You can't manage a team of millionaires by fear for very long.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby EliteKiller » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:50 pm

Power n Glory wrote:Gazidis, Kroenke, Josh and Wenger can all take responsibility for that contract. I don't think he came up with the bonus structure and finer details but I don't think he was ignorant of it. I also don't think it was something he stood against otherwise he wouldn't be out here saying Ozil should play. He'd probably be preaching about the dangers of massive contracts in the modern game.


Let's not rewrite history, Wenger came up with the socialist wages policy, Wenger was the one who said long contracts were a thing of the past and all players will be moving on free transfers, Wenger ws the one who said wages not transfer fees will be the determining factors. Josh and Gazidis bought in hook line and sinker but the philosophy was all Wenger, remember this interview back in 2016/7

But Arsene warned: “With the amount of transfer levels and the expected amount of contracts the players want, you will have more and more players going into the final year of their contract,

“You will be in a position where you either extend for money you cannot afford or you go into the final year of their contract.

“This season there were 107 players in the Premier League who got into the final year of their contract for the first time and you will see that more.

“The clubs want too much more for normal players. Because they say if one player is worth £200m, then this player is worth £50. But everybody knows for that player £50m is too much and they cannot afford it.

“So what happens? The club cannot sell and doesn’t extend the contract, so more and more players are going into the final year of their contract.”

"To get the best players you will have to pay very high money, contracts will become very short"
Last edited by EliteKiller on Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby gamechannel » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:01 am

A sad ending to his Arsenal career. Insulted, humiliated and discarded.

Arteta is the manager so his decision must be respected. But I do not, for one second, believe when he said everyone has a clean slate with the new season because all of the players he didn't want at the end of last season he ended up getting rid of including Torreira, Guendouzi, Ozil and Sokratis. His mind was made up. Ozil had no chance even if he trained the best out of everyone.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:58 am

Still cannot understand why he can’t be used selectively. Like against teams that sit back and don’t allow us to play our counter attacking football. Or when we are chasing goals in the final minutes of the game. I can only assume the club has to pay him some type of appearance bonus and therefore they want to eliminate his involvement entirely.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Sims » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:16 am

swipe right wrote:Still cannot understand why he can’t be used selectively. Like against teams that sit back and don’t allow us to play our counter attacking football. Or when we are chasing goals in the final minutes of the game. I can only assume the club has to pay him some type of appearance bonus and therefore they want to eliminate his involvement entirely.


The rumours are that his £350k p/w wages aren’t guaranteed, and that his base of £250k can reach £350k with bonuses

A 10 min cameo is not worth 100k p/w

Mesut’s not kicking up a fuss at all with this at the training ground, which speaks volumes
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:38 am

Pick your combo in a midfield of 433

——Ozil
Xhaka—Partey

——Saka
Xhaka—Partey

——Ceballos
Xhaka—Partey

——Willock
Xhaka—Partey
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby jayramfootball » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:43 am

Ozil, Thomas, Ceballos
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Sims » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:18 am

Thomas, Ceballos, Saka/Willian
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