Goonersworld

Tony_Adams wrote:

starmandb wrote:

Tony_Adams wrote:

starmandb wrote:

Tony_Adams wrote:Two goals came from the ball going over his head. If he had better positioning he'd be able to stop them. That has nothing to do with fitness or sharpness. I reckon you could stick 52 year old tony adams in the team and whilst he'd be unfit he'd have made those headers just from better positioning.

34 year old tony Adams was in the arsenal team that twice lost the lead at Southampton to lose 3-2 in 2001
Did a league and cup double the next season

How many of those goals conceded were headers though?

The second goal was a chip in the box that should have been dealt with better
The first was Grimandi having a clearance charged down
The third was a bit of a cracker from le tissier
Last goal at the dell

So my point about the headers being poor positioning and that adams would have dealt with them still stands. But I appreciate the sentiment.

Well that second goal no but yes in general Adams was a fantastic captain for Arsenal
But even he and some of the best players ever to play for the club lost
at Southampton conceding bad goals

Cannoner wrote:

Tony_Adams wrote:

Santi wrote:Btw, quality headers from Ings regardless

Still think any semi-decent centre back would have been better positioned for those two headers. Kos will be watching videos of positioning for defending aerial balls all week [emoji38]

That comes down to being out for so long. I remember when I done my ligaments in and missed almost a year of football, the first few games I came back I was so off the pace and my reading of the game had deteriorated, which affected my positioning.

These things happen and as he sharpens it'll come naturally to him. Just bad luck we had 3 of our most consistent defenders out yesterday because ideally Kos would have been rested after playing on Thursday.

Exactly this. 100% fit is different than 100% match fit. I won't put the blame solely on him nor Leno. In fact my problem with this performance is the team looked uninterested. Just like last year.

BrunelGooner wrote:I am going to say something that quite a lot of fans here probably won't like.

And I am not saying this to be reactionary because I was thinking this last season too even before he got injured.

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, here goes...

I think Koscielny is finished at the top level. He's a 33-year old centre half that relies on his pace and has come back from an 8 month lay off, after already having well-documented achilles problems for the last couple of seasons. He wasn't exactly stellar last season or the season before that, either.

The only way for Koscielny from this point is downhill.

He's been a tremendous servant to Arsenal Football Club. I know he is a fan favourite. He helped us win 3 FA Cups and ended our trophy drought, so he will always be a huge part of our history.

But we have no room or time for sentiment. We need better centre-half options than we currently have right now.

The only reliable centre-half in the team is Sokratis. Holding was doing well, but he's out for the season. Mustafi is erratic. And Koscielny isn't trustworthy anymore either. Mavrapanos looks promising, but he's still young and has suffered a long injury.

I'd look to slowly phase Kos out. He's even said that he wants to go back to France once his contract expires, so it's not like he has any intention of staying at Arsenal much longer anyway. For the time being, he can play in League Cup/FA Cup/Europa fixtures against dross/mediocre sides. But he cannot be trusted in bigger games or in the Premier League.

He has to be used as a last resort from here on in.

BrunelGooner wrote:I am going to say something that quite a lot of fans here probably won't like.

And I am not saying this to be reactionary because I was thinking this last season too even before he got injured.

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, here goes...

I think Koscielny is finished at the top level. He's a 33-year old centre half that relies on his pace and has come back from an 8 month lay off, after already having well-documented achilles problems for the last couple of seasons. He wasn't exactly stellar last season or the season before that, either.

The only way for Koscielny from this point is downhill.

He's been a tremendous servant to Arsenal Football Club. I know he is a fan favourite. He helped us win 3 FA Cups and ended our trophy drought, so he will always be a huge part of our history.

But we have no room or time for sentiment. We need better centre-half options than we currently have right now.

The only reliable centre-half in the team is Sokratis. Holding was doing well, but he's out for the season. Mustafi is erratic. And Koscielny isn't trustworthy anymore either. Mavrapanos looks promising, but he's still young and has suffered a long injury.

I'd look to slowly phase Kos out. He's even said that he wants to go back to France once his contract expires, so it's not like he has any intention of staying at Arsenal much longer anyway. For the time being, he can play in League Cup/FA Cup/Europa fixtures against dross/mediocre sides. But he cannot be trusted in bigger games or in the Premier League.

He has to be used as a last resort from here on in.

Pretty much this

Ive never been a big fan. hes never been that good. Hes had his moments for sure but his calamities are too many and he wont be missed

Never was the biggest fan either but i think he will bounce back. I think he has a good head on his body and will work hard. Unless we buy another cb, koscielny - sokratis is the way to go

Mustati is a liability

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk

I'll be banned for trolling because Mods love Koscielny......

Overrated player, who was never that good. His only ever time where he played well was with Mertesacker. Has zero ability to command a defence. It's embarrassing how much better Mustafi looks with Sokratis than he ever did with Koscielny, a supposed great defender. He has zero sense of positioning without Mertesacker.

For all his faults and lack of pace, Mertesacker would not have been caught out so badly. Koscielny-Djourou, Koscielny-Mustafi, Koscielny-Holding were all disaster classes.

Meanwhile, a proper class CB like Sokratis has made Holding and Mustafi look solid. That's the difference.

One of the most overrated players. People rated him over Per, when it was Per who organised the defence.

Lost us the Capital One Cup with a moronic move. Thank God he got suspended before that final against Chelsea, otherwise we'd have lost. That red card epitomized Kos. Fans crying because he won't play, we end up doing much better without him, and fans also forget he got himself sent off when we were chasing top four and needed to win.

Embarrassingly overrated player. Was never a top CB. Might play well with Sokratis, but he has zero abilities to command the defence.

And considering he can't even command the defence, why in the world is he commanding the team as Captain?

Before anyone says overreaction, he's finished after his Achilles. This is before the Achilles. Overrated, just like Wenger, just like his Invincibles with no points record, no goals record, and only one trophy. Give me a treble, or a Double with a record points tally over the Invincibles any day of the week.

Someone ban him again

Yawn

LegendaryKeown wrote:I'll be banned for trolling because Mods love Koscielny......

Overrated player, who was never that good. His only ever time where he played well was with Mertesacker. Has zero ability to command a defence. It's embarrassing how much better Mustafi looks with Sokratis than he ever did with Koscielny, a supposed great defender. He has zero sense of positioning without Mertesacker.

For all his faults and lack of pace, Mertesacker would not have been caught out so badly. Koscielny-Djourou, Koscielny-Mustafi, Koscielny-Holding were all disaster classes.

Meanwhile, a proper class CB like Sokratis has made Holding and Mustafi look solid. That's the difference.

One of the most overrated players. People rated him over Per, when it was Per who organised the defence.

Lost us the Capital One Cup with a moronic move. Thank God he got suspended before that final against Chelsea, otherwise we'd have lost. That red card epitomized Kos. Fans crying because he won't play, we end up doing much better without him, and fans also forget he got himself sent off when we were chasing top four and needed to win.

Embarrassingly overrated player. Was never a top CB. Might play well with Sokratis, but he has zero abilities to command the defence.

And considering he can't even command the defence, why in the world is he commanding the team as Captain?

Before anyone says overreaction, he's finished after his Achilles. This is before the Achilles. Overrated, just like Wenger, just like his Invincibles with no points record, no goals record, and only one trophy. Give me a treble, or a Double with a record points tally over the Invincibles any day of the week.

Koscielny was in Arsenal sides that
Beat Chelsea
10/11
3-1
11/12
5-3 away
16/17
3-0

LegendaryKeown wrote:I'll be banned for trolling because Mods love Koscielny......

Overrated player, who was never that good. His only ever time where he played well was with Mertesacker. Has zero ability to command a defence. It's embarrassing how much better Mustafi looks with Sokratis than he ever did with Koscielny, a supposed great defender. He has zero sense of positioning without Mertesacker.

For all his faults and lack of pace, Mertesacker would not have been caught out so badly. Koscielny-Djourou, Koscielny-Mustafi, Koscielny-Holding were all disaster classes.

Meanwhile, a proper class CB like Sokratis has made Holding and Mustafi look solid. That's the difference.

One of the most overrated players. People rated him over Per, when it was Per who organised the defence.

Lost us the Capital One Cup with a moronic move. Thank God he got suspended before that final against Chelsea, otherwise we'd have lost. That red card epitomized Kos. Fans crying because he won't play, we end up doing much better without him, and fans also forget he got himself sent off when we were chasing top four and needed to win.

Embarrassingly overrated player. Was never a top CB. Might play well with Sokratis, but he has zero abilities to command the defence.

And considering he can't even command the defence, why in the world is he commanding the team as Captain?

Before anyone says overreaction, he's finished after his Achilles. This is before the Achilles. Overrated, just like Wenger, just like his Invincibles with no points record, no goals record, and only one trophy. Give me a treble, or a Double with a record points tally over the Invincibles any day of the week.

Your opinion and you are entitled to it, I agree with a few of the points you made, he is definitely passed his best now and time to say goodbye.

It was only a few years ago that some of the top strikers in the league were saying he was the best they played against. I would easily take their opinion over anyone else. Of course now he's past it and probably needs to go, but lets not act like he was never good.

StLGooner wrote:It was only a few years ago that some of the top strikers in the league were saying he was the best they played against. I would easily take their opinion over anyone else. Of course now he's past it and probably needs to go, but lets not act like he was never good.

Largely agree, not sure he's completely past it yet but otherwise


Gotta give him more than 1 game after 8 months out to judge where he's at.

Tbh he’s 5th choice. No point playing him when he’s clearly not ready mind you. Give one of the youngsters a chance, can’t be much worse. If we don’t trust them to step in at a crisis then offload them

Looked like he cocked up for the second by not closing Kane down, any thoughts? Was down the other end from me so not 100% sure if it mattered

3x balls let in over the top in just two games.

Its not happening for him, he's been on the decline now for over 2 seasons, remember the Kos and Mustafi calamity show?

I know he used to be top draw but I think its over now, Sokratis is the boy at CB now, even Mustafi bar his odd brain fart is better than this.