Geography, History and a sad fact for Sp*rs.

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Geography, History and a sad fact for Sp*rs.

Postby Est83 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:29 am

Who was in North London first: Arsenal or Spurs?

Phil / July 31, 2012


Before all the Spurs fans rise up once again (see comments on yesterday’s blog), let me just say I really couldn’t care what the answer to the question is, I’m just doing this for historical accuracy.

Many Spurs fans, for obvious reasons, resent Arsenal moving to North London and becoming more successful than them, and in their eyes cheating Spurs out of a place in Division 1 in 1919, on the resumption of football after World War 1. I’m not going to go into that subject here, but obviously the allegations of bribery and corruption against Arsenal are completely unfounded. If anyone, Spurs fan or otherwise, wants to accuse Arsenal of any offence in 1919 then please provide some form of evidence.

However, the circumstances of Spurs being relegated while Arsenal were promoted in 1919, then Arsenal becoming the biggest club in the world in the 1930s, Spurs’ resurgence in the late 1950s and then their glory years (1961-62), and finally the modern Spurs fan having to watch Arsenal’s own resurgence and numerous trophy wins has caused some negative emotions in many Spurs fans – I won’t say all; I’ve met Spurs fans who are perfectly reasonable. But some understandably cling to the “We were here in North London first” argument. The problem with this argument is that the boundary of London has changed.

London was already a city in medieval times when the Normans organised England and Wales into counties. In the south of England counties were largely existing divisions of the old Kingdom of Wessex, including Middlesex (named after the ‘Middle Saxons’ who settled there a few centuries earlier). Henry I granted control of Middlesex to London, and until the late 19th century London and Middlesex were administered together for most purposes.

‘London’ at this time was strictly speaking what we now know as the City of London, also known simply as ‘the City’ or the ‘square mile’, and largely taken over these days by the financial industry. In earlier times people actually lived in the City of London of course, but eventually most migrated to the growing urban sprawl outside the old City walls. As time went on ‘London’ gobbled up its surrounding villages and became bigger and bigger, though officially London was still just the old area of the City within its medieval boundary.

In 1886 – coincidentally Arsenal’s founding year – the Conservatives won a general election, but without enough seats for a majority. They allied themselves with the Liberal Unionists, who agreed to support the Tories in exchange for certain policies being implemented, one of which was reorganisation of local government. Accordingly, new county administrations were implemented under the Local Government Act of 1888, including the formation of a new County of London from 21 March 1889.

The County of London was made up of the City itself and a large number of districts surrounding it on both sides of the River Thames. In 1900 the old local districts and parishes and their administrative councils were reorganised into 28 Metropolitan Boroughs, including Chelsea, Fulham, Woolwich (one of the largest in area) and Islington – which of course includes Highbury. So both Arsenal’s home (south of the river) at the time of the formation of the new county and the one they moved to in 1913 were within the official new London. Tottenham remained in Middlesex, where it had been ever since its formation as a small hamlet about 1,000 years ago.

Things stayed this way from 1900 to 1965, when London’s increasing size necessitated further reorganisation. Under the London Government Act 1963 a new ‘Greater London’ was formed around the County of London, which then disappeared and became known as ‘Inner London’. At this point Tottenham became part of the new borough of Haringey, and for the first time part of London.

The county of Middlesex disappeared, mostly into Greater London, with odd bits going into other surrounding counties. The name Middlesex lives on as a postal district and the name of a county cricket club.

So, rather appropriately some might say, Tottenham only became part of London on 1 April 1965. What this means of course is that they’ve never won the League as a London club, and Arsenal were the first London club to do the Double! And also the second and third.

To emphasise that last point, here’s the Wikipedia page for the Municipal Borough of Tottenham that features a map titled “Tottenham within Middlesex in 1961″. I’ve added this as at least one Spurs fan seemed to think that when Tottenham became a borough in the 1890s it stopped being part of Middlesex. No such luck for him, as the status of Tottenham could not get it out of Middlesex and into the capital with Arsenal for another 70 years.

On 20 September another Spurs fan materialised to claim (see comments) that Tottenham has been part of London since 1857! Obviously he is wrong. It is true that the ‘London postal district’, which included everything within about 12 miles of St Paul’s, was instigated in 1857, but that was just for the Post Office. It also included Romford in Essex and various places that were and still remain in Surrey and other counties. Nothing whatsoever to do with when any boundaries changed or new administrations were formed. Straw-clutching. If straw-clutching were an Olympic event the Totts would win every time.

For further detail please do a web search for London Government Act 1963, Middlesex, Local Government Act 1888, etc. It’s all out there.


http://angryofislington.com/2012/07/31/ ... -or-spurs/

A friend of mine shared this on FB, I knew the gist of it, but didn't know the boundaries only changed in 63... that's gotta be a kick in the teeth! :grin:

Would rather arseblog did some thing like this to be honest, this guy sounds quite hateful and bitter (but he has a point to be made nonetheless ;) ). Some on here might already know the facts, but thought I'd post this anyway as it's the first article I've seen that goes into real detail on the subject.
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Re: Geography, History and a sad fact for Sp*rs.

Postby Royal Gooner » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:41 am

Most Arsenal fans were aware that sp*rs in harringay only became part of London in 1965. I know I knew that Arsenal have been in London since 1889. Hence the nickname, Middlesex Wanderers!
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Re: Geography, History and a sad fact for Sp*rs.

Postby Est83 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:48 am

A* for you then.
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Re: Geography, History and a sad fact for Sp*rs.

Postby friedslice » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:15 am

been reminding them this for years.

for those not in regular association with yids, or with no idea just how sad, bitter and pathetic they are, but us not being a proper north london club is something the most ardent yids throw at us on an alarmingly sad regularity.
but by those rules, if we aren't proper north london then they're not even proper london FACT.

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Re: Geography, History and a sad fact for Sp*rs.

Postby #ST » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:39 am

Good read, quite some giggles. Thanks for this.
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