18/12/2016 | Manchester City 2-1 Arsenal | Premier League

Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby BS221B » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:34 pm

Nuggets wrote:Mesut Özil's game by numbers vs. Man City:

1 chance created
0 crosses completed
0 take-ons completed
0 shots
Says it all really Ozil just fook off if you don't want to play for us.

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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby immsun » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:38 pm

This is beyond embarrassing. Totally blame it on Wenger.Why do you need to invite pressure? That Walcott goal was easy. If we could have been more positive we could have finished in the first half itself they are that bad defensively.

We will be 12 points behind Chelsea by Jan 1st week.
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby docwelsh » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:49 pm

Away from home us scoring the early goal seems to kill us tactically! With the forced change at the back for arsenal it was never going to be an option to sit back and defend a 1-0 lead. It would appear that Sanchez was on a different game plan to the rest of the team. He was the only one to want to press and get a second goal and kill the game.

Pressing high up the pitch would had put the shaky city defense in the back foot and we could have exploited that with the crisp passing of the first half. But if that was a tactical decision to play only on the counter it was shocking as it failed at Everton just a few days ago.
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Zenith » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:50 pm

docwelsh wrote:Away from home us scoring the early goal seems to kill us tactically! With the forced change at the back for arsenal it was never going to be an option to sit back and defend a 1-0 lead. It would appear that Sanchez was on a different game plan to the rest of the team. He was the only one to want to press and get a second goal and kill the game.

Pressing high up the pitch would had put the shaky city defense in the back foot and we could have exploited that with the crisp passing of the first half. But if that was a tactical decision to play only on the counter it was shocking as it failed at Everton just a few days ago.

Spot on doc, couldn't agree more.
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby realtalk » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:24 pm

Well thats us out of the title race.Its over.We have to worry about spuds and manure now battle for 4th place. No idea what is this nonsense 2 holding players sitting deep counter attack football we are trying to play.Its shit and just invites pressure and we've lost 2 games playing this shitty way .We are not even countering and scoring. Xhaka and coqulin are trash offensively.Which created the huge disconnect with ozil who goes walkies. Seriously have these 3 combinined for anything.1 shot on target in a first half.

Rambo needs to come back and go in midfield period.No more tinkering with him.Cant keep using him rw to supplyment people that dont want to sign contracts and are old and on the way out.Makes no f***ing sense.Play him where he should play.These midfield combos between coq,xhaka,santi ,eleneny are no better than f***ing old flamini and ramsey let alone old arteta and ramsey.And these new combos are playing with no risk sitting deep creating nothing & we still conceeded every game still getting outplayed. They are no better.Coquelin and xhaka are just outputing nothing better than an old flamini on his game.And there's both of them in there.Wenger has continously recognized the mistake but still fields this wankt.And trys fixing it by subbing ff coquelin or xhaka for more offense but by then its too late ,no stability.

The lack of pressing is embarrasing, no agression,dropping off ,waiting to get attacked ,.Ozils number 1 culprit absolute passenger without that b2b carrying his ass he's poor.Major supplement player.He really needs a b2b midfiedler to perform. Then you add slow xhaka. Yet we keep playing formations for ozil to go m.i.a how the f**k does that makes sense.This guy was not in the game. Even when players are playing shit you can see them making mistakes and trying.This guy ducks out of tackles and gets pushed by midget david silva.

These guys got the cheek to demand silly wage fees whilst not winning major trophies f***ing joke
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Yago » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:00 pm

everyone and their granny saw this coming
same old shit
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby hs6bx » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:01 pm

For me, as a football fan, regardless of the club I support, I would be berating my teams manager for the decisions that Wenger made today. What's worse is that it's all too familiar... We have to remember that Wenger is a human and not some god, and just because he is manager and we aren't it doesn't give our opinions less weight or relevance.

Firstly, playing away from home against a team who are likely to have a large chunk of possession suggests that the work your team does off the ball becomes more important. Now as you all know, over the years, we have dominated possession against 90% of the teams in the league, but today was one of the games where we were always going to concede a lot of the ball, so then why do we have a totally uninterested Ozil playing with his hands on hips with no intent to even make an effort to win back possession? One assist or a couple of key passes per game is not enough to constitute being called a world class player. Football has gone stats-crazy in recent years, but we forget that there is nothing objective about football except for the scoreline. The game is about an overall contribution which includes with the ball and without the ball. I am also very frustrated with the lack of defensive awareness of Walcott and Iwobi - it seems they feel like they are exempt from defensive duties because we are trying to play them in behind of the counter attack... But forgetting, of you don't win back possession, you can't counter! Again, I don't blame the players so much, more Wenger - his team / his tactics.

Xhaka for me has got an awful lot to do before he proves why we paid 35m for his services. He looks lethargic, flat footed, and unbelievably casual in possession with no urgency whatsoever. I'm stunned at the amount of times he has underhit passes and lost possession in his own half. Yet with City battering us and Coquelin looking like the only midfielder on the pitch ready to stand up and be counted, it's him that gets sacrificed instead of Xhaka. Coquelin for me is one of the most important Arsenal players and should be one of the first names on the team sheet. Not only is he excellent defensively, he gets about the pitch so well and rushes opposition into passes, forces them into mistakes. Yet, I'd bet my house on a pairing of Cazorla and Xhaka when everyone is fit. It's very predictable.

Those that watched the game saw that second City goal coming a mile off! Yet, the ever reactive Wenger waits... and waits... then hey presto - City score and he reacts by making a sub, which in fairness was a couple mins before his '70 minute substitution law' (which, by the way, is insanely annoying!). Wenger does not adapt his team's game for different opposition, and he is too stubborn to change his philosophies and 'rules'. In the two tough away fixtures this week why are we not going with Giroud up top and just move Sanchez out wide? You've then got someone to hit if you do need to go long who will more than likely win the flick on or hold the ball up so that the midfielders can go and join in.

I understand Wenger's genius status, and I take my hat off to the man for what he's achieved at the club - that is never in question, but how long can you live off previous success. We haven't even challenged for a title in 10 years. The stadium repayment was used as an excuse before, but what now? What is stopping us from at least challenging for the league? In my opinion it's Wenger.

An early prediction of this seasons outcome - Top 4, out of the title race by March or April, no silverware, and a load of old excuses. I hope I am wrong and am left with egg on my face.
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Myrmedus » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:51 pm

hs6bx wrote:For me, as a football fan, regardless of the club I support, I would be berating my teams manager for the decisions that Wenger made today. What's worse is that it's all too familiar... We have to remember that Wenger is a human and not some god, and just because he is manager and we aren't it doesn't give our opinions less weight or relevance.

Firstly, playing away from home against a team who are likely to have a large chunk of possession suggests that the work your team does off the ball becomes more important. Now as you all know, over the years, we have dominated possession against 90% of the teams in the league, but today was one of the games where we were always going to concede a lot of the ball, so then why do we have a totally uninterested Ozil playing with his hands on hips with no intent to even make an effort to win back possession? One assist or a couple of key passes per game is not enough to constitute being called a world class player. Football has gone stats-crazy in recent years, but we forget that there is nothing objective about football except for the scoreline. The game is about an overall contribution which includes with the ball and without the ball. I am also very frustrated with the lack of defensive awareness of Walcott and Iwobi - it seems they feel like they are exempt from defensive duties because we are trying to play them in behind of the counter attack... But forgetting, of you don't win back possession, you can't counter! Again, I don't blame the players so much, more Wenger - his team / his tactics.

Xhaka for me has got an awful lot to do before he proves why we paid 35m for his services. He looks lethargic, flat footed, and unbelievably casual in possession with no urgency whatsoever. I'm stunned at the amount of times he has underhit passes and lost possession in his own half. Yet with City battering us and Coquelin looking like the only midfielder on the pitch ready to stand up and be counted, it's him that gets sacrificed instead of Xhaka. Coquelin for me is one of the most important Arsenal players and should be one of the first names on the team sheet. Not only is he excellent defensively, he gets about the pitch so well and rushes opposition into passes, forces them into mistakes. Yet, I'd bet my house on a pairing of Cazorla and Xhaka when everyone is fit. It's very predictable.

Those that watched the game saw that second City goal coming a mile off! Yet, the ever reactive Wenger waits... and waits... then hey presto - City score and he reacts by making a sub, which in fairness was a couple mins before his '70 minute substitution law' (which, by the way, is insanely annoying!). Wenger does not adapt his team's game for different opposition, and he is too stubborn to change his philosophies and 'rules'. In the two tough away fixtures this week why are we not going with Giroud up top and just move Sanchez out wide? You've then got someone to hit if you do need to go long who will more than likely win the flick on or hold the ball up so that the midfielders can go and join in.

I understand Wenger's genius status, and I take my hat off to the man for what he's achieved at the club - that is never in question, but how long can you live off previous success. We haven't even challenged for a title in 10 years. The stadium repayment was used as an excuse before, but what now? What is stopping us from at least challenging for the league? In my opinion it's Wenger.

An early prediction of this seasons outcome - Top 4, out of the title race by March or April, no silverware, and a load of old excuses. I hope I am wrong and am left with egg on my face.


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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby gooney » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:56 pm

hs6bx wrote:For me, as a football fan, regardless of the club I support, I would be berating my teams manager for the decisions that Wenger made today. What's worse is that it's all too familiar... We have to remember that Wenger is a human and not some god, and just because he is manager and we aren't it doesn't give our opinions less weight or relevance.

Firstly, playing away from home against a team who are likely to have a large chunk of possession suggests that the work your team does off the ball becomes more important. Now as you all know, over the years, we have dominated possession against 90% of the teams in the league, but today was one of the games where we were always going to concede a lot of the ball, so then why do we have a totally uninterested Ozil playing with his hands on hips with no intent to even make an effort to win back possession? One assist or a couple of key passes per game is not enough to constitute being called a world class player. Football has gone stats-crazy in recent years, but we forget that there is nothing objective about football except for the scoreline. The game is about an overall contribution which includes with the ball and without the ball. I am also very frustrated with the lack of defensive awareness of Walcott and Iwobi - it seems they feel like they are exempt from defensive duties because we are trying to play them in behind of the counter attack... But forgetting, of you don't win back possession, you can't counter! Again, I don't blame the players so much, more Wenger - his team / his tactics.

Xhaka for me has got an awful lot to do before he proves why we paid 35m for his services. He looks lethargic, flat footed, and unbelievably casual in possession with no urgency whatsoever. I'm stunned at the amount of times he has underhit passes and lost possession in his own half. Yet with City battering us and Coquelin looking like the only midfielder on the pitch ready to stand up and be counted, it's him that gets sacrificed instead of Xhaka. Coquelin for me is one of the most important Arsenal players and should be one of the first names on the team sheet. Not only is he excellent defensively, he gets about the pitch so well and rushes opposition into passes, forces them into mistakes. Yet, I'd bet my house on a pairing of Cazorla and Xhaka when everyone is fit. It's very predictable.

Those that watched the game saw that second City goal coming a mile off! Yet, the ever reactive Wenger waits... and waits... then hey presto - City score and he reacts by making a sub, which in fairness was a couple mins before his '70 minute substitution law' (which, by the way, is insanely annoying!). Wenger does not adapt his team's game for different opposition, and he is too stubborn to change his philosophies and 'rules'. In the two tough away fixtures this week why are we not going with Giroud up top and just move Sanchez out wide? You've then got someone to hit if you do need to go long who will more than likely win the flick on or hold the ball up so that the midfielders can go and join in.

I understand Wenger's genius status, and I take my hat off to the man for what he's achieved at the club - that is never in question, but how long can you live off previous success. We haven't even challenged for a title in 10 years. The stadium repayment was used as an excuse before, but what now? What is stopping us from at least challenging for the league? In my opinion it's Wenger.

An early prediction of this seasons outcome - Top 4, out of the title race by March or April, no silverware, and a load of old excuses. I hope I am wrong and am left with egg on my face.

good post except for this. I have always maintained he is not good enough to start for a league winning side and he is a big problem in midfield. he is very limited on the ball and at this level you cant just defend and pass to nearest player. He is also poor when pressured. Cazorla did a lot to hide his flaws, but they are more obvious now. He looks good ebcause we are used to arteta and flamini in that position and he plays next to xhaka and ozil who are super lazy. But coquelin on his own is an average player and is the reason wenger spent 35 million on xhaka. Turns out he is not good enough either
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Sims » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:00 pm

Coquelin had 58% pass completion today, absolutely terrible in such a big game where we're on the backfoot all game

Also didn't we win all our games when we played Santi-Xhaka in midfield?
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Zenith » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:01 pm

Sims wrote:Coquelin had 58% pass completion today, absolutely terrible in such a big game where we're on the backfoot all game

There were several moments where he did well to try and hold on to the ball for multiple seconds and still didn't get an outlet to pass to, especially in the second half. Not saying he had a good game, but it takes two to make a pass.
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Sims » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:02 pm

there were also times he tried to dribble his way out of numerous situation and got moved out the way like a year 7

pretty poor especially considering even ramsey has managed to put yaya toure on the weights
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby gooney » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:03 pm

Sims wrote:Coquelin had 58% pass completion today, absolutely terrible in such a big game where we're on the backfoot all game

Also didn't we win all our games when we played Santi-Xhaka in midfield?

Thats the problem. of the 22 players on the pitch. him and walcott were by far the most limited on the ball. Now when ox plays....those 3 are usually the worst on the ball against good teams. This is the main reason we keep getting dominated against good team. No amount of tactics or passion can cover for such a limited ball player. Put it this way....if coquelin is so good. How come he never been looked at by france or been linked with another club?
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby Callum » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:58 pm

Missed this as I went to see Rogue One instead. Looks like I made the right call.
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Re: 18/12/2016 | Manchester City vs Arsenal | Premier League

Postby hs6bx » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:30 pm

Fair point, Coquelin isn't the world's best midfield player - that's not what I'm saying by any stretch, but you do need a balance in a football side. That shield in front of the back four is an important role. I think he is the only player in the squad with that discipline and tenacity which is why I say he has to be in the starting 11. Potentially Elneny has similar approach, but I don't think he is quite as good.

As for winning with Xhaka and Cazorla, that's true, but we you'd expect those two to be a decent enough pairing against the sides when we dominate possession, which is also when Ozil looks like a great player. It's the tougher fixtures like this week that I refer to.

So far we have beaten a Chelsea team who hadn't quite found their feet, but then been found out against Liverpool and City, played poorly against Spurs at home, We're incredibly lucky to get a draw from United and both PSG games... I'm not saying we should win all of them, but I do think you have to look at Wenger for the way he sets up against the better opposition (which is the same as against the lesser sides). He was lauded for getting a point at an underperforming United, but that was daylight robbery - we were atrocious! All that late goal did is deflect the attention from Wenger's awful decisions, and paper over weaknesses which are obvious if you watch the full game.
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