11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:40 pm

That Giroud pic is not comparable to the one of your player. Firstly, I think a shove on the face is fundamentally different. And that's what it was a shove, or at worst, he was holding his neck. Your guy looks like he's strangling someone... which he wasn't, fair enough, but the difference is obvious
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Zedie » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:48 pm

Why did he need to come off the ground to make that challenge? Because hes not in control of himself.

Shawcross trailing foot caught Jeffers ankle and as he turned his ligaments tore


oh, that makes a full force tackle from behind that tears ligaments from their socket alright then i suppose. As long as no bones were broken. If the bone was broken, i assume that only this would make it a reckless, dangerous tackle :dontknow:. Couldnt find



Another Shawcross special ^^^^^^

Not to mention that wonderful 'no malice' tackle on Adebayor from behind when Ade was OFF THE PITCH as well at the end of that footage from the first clip i posted.

But Ryan isnt that kind of bloke, he doesnt mean it.......

Theres a point where defending him must sound hollow to his fans
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:36 pm

GoonerAlexis wrote:That Giroud pic is not comparable to the one of your player. Firstly, I think a shove on the face is fundamentally different. And that's what it was a shove, or at worst, he was holding his neck. Your guy looks like he's strangling someone... which he wasn't, fair enough, but the difference is obvious

I appreciate the two aren't comparable, because one is an angelic Arsenal player who can do no wrong in your eyes, and the other is an evil Stoke player from the land of mordor, otherwise known as the North where we're all so backward and stupid, we merely jump from episode to episode of Jeremy Kyle while hiding our pints of scrumpy cider down our big jackets filled with stolen goods and look forward to our late night bar fights. Feel free to fill in any other stereotypes that I assume you associate with anyone north of the Watford Gap...

Charlie Adam didn't strangle Sanchez give me a f***ing break. Sanchez did him hands down (he's done plenty of players this season), and Adam wrapped his arm round him and merely held him from getting any further. It was naughty, it was daft, it could have cost us a goal, but most importantly, it was his only action in a cameo that lasted about 2 minutes, yet you unsurprisingly associate his only action on the pitch that with of an excellent Stoke City performance on the day... no doubt another way to mask the failings of your own team at the Britannia. Is it too much to admit we happened to outplay you that day? That in reality, only thanks to two very favourable refereeing decisions (favourable ref decisions to Arsenal... never) was it not 4-0 to Stoke part way through the second half? I don't expect you to give us credit publicly, I know that's hard, maybe it's just something you can think in the back of your mind... if possible eh? :)

Zedie wrote:Why did he need to come off the ground to make that challenge? Because hes not in control of himself.

Shawcross trailing foot caught Jeffers ankle and as he turned his ligaments tore


oh, that makes a full force tackle from behind that tears ligaments from their socket alright then i suppose. As long as no bones were broken. If the bone was broken, i assume that only this would make it a reckless, dangerous tackle :dontknow:. Couldnt find



Another Shawcross special ^^^^^^

Not to mention that wonderful 'no malice' tackle on Adebayor from behind when Ade was OFF THE PITCH as well at the end of that footage from the first clip i posted.

But Ryan isnt that kind of bloke, he doesnt mean it.......

Theres a point where defending him must sound hollow to his fans

OK Zedie

Why did he come off the ground? Good question. Maybe you can ask him? Who knows? You make it sound like I somehow agreed with what he did. I've agreed it was a bad tackle, but I just don't accept it was intentional. Maybe it was because he was a young, still fairly inexperienced defender at the top level and made a huge mistake. Is it actually possible to make mistakes? Or is everything an intentional act of violence? Why did Jack Wilshere come off the ground and put a potential leg breaking challenge on a Birmingham player a few years ago? Or didn't you see that? Wenger eyes and all that? The only difference is, Jack didn't break the guys leg, so you can claim blind ignorance and sit in your ivory tower... If he'd broken that guys leg, would you be calling Wilshere the same as Shawcross? Of course not, he plays for Arsenal y'know...

oh, that makes a full force tackle from behind that tears ligaments from their socket alright then i suppose. As long as no bones were broken. If the bone was broken, i assume that only this would make it a reckless, dangerous tackle :dontknow:.

Like I said, were you there? I very much doubt it. The tackle on Jeffers won the ball. It was a hard challenge by modern standards but 20 years ago would be considered fairly routine. It was similar to those put in by Vieira, Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Petit etc. I know those names are probably new to you, but they were known to be quite hard back in the day.
My point wasn't mitigation because no bones were broken, my point was that people like Cripps sit behind their keyboard throwing factually incorrect statements out there so people like yourself can continue to justify Shawcross as your continuing figure of hate.
It's a long time ago since that incident but I don't think Shawcross was even booked for the challenge. It might not have even been a foul. You have no video footage of the incident, so you're simply going on Dara O Turnip's opinion... Unlike Cripps, who wouldn't stand up in a court of law and say that Ryan Shawcross broke Francis Jeffers leg. I'm pretty certain I would stand up in court and safely say that Dara O Muppet has NEVER seen the footage of the incident involving Ryan and Francis Jeffers, so once again, his opinion is about as useless as a chocolate fireplace.

Regarding the other Shawcross special, I have no idea where that clip is from. It looks a pre-season friendly, although oddly it doesn't look like any Stoke away strip I've seen in the past 8 years (and it's clearly not a home strip)... in fact, the last strip that was anything like that was our 2006-2007 away strip which had a white top and black shorts... and no Ryan Shawcross who was still a youth player at Manchester United. I appreciate that teams sometimes get into 3rd kits for pre-season friendlies, but it's not something Stoke tend to do. So, I'm going to pull an Arsene on you and say "I did not zee it".

Not to mention that wonderful 'no malice' tackle on Adebayor from behind when Ade was OFF THE PITCH as well at the end of that footage from the first clip i posted.

This is an interesting one. I didn't realize you still had much sympathy for Ade after he ditched you for the money? I remember that game quite well (especially being as it was our first victory over you since returning to the top division). It was a game where Adebayor had spent the entire game elbowing Shawcross in the face without any kind of punishment from the ref. I think they call it a 'Kevin Davies' (?), where a striker jumps by backing into the defender with his arms raised as to catch the defender in the face. He did that several times, in fact, I think several is being nice. He did it a lot, and the referee did nothing. You, who were no doubt watching Sky Sports News, won't have seen this because MOTD don't tend to show things to level the bias. After numerous elbows with no caution or even a foul, perhaps Ryan did, what you all seem to think your french Prince did so correctly, and took the law into his own hands by giving Adebayor a bit of a reminder of what he was doing.

While we're on the subject of quality tackling, what was your initial thoughts around the time William Gallas put this on Mark Davies?
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I know being an Arsenal player he's exempt from any criticism, but would you say that's a bad tackle or did he win the ball? Looks to me like he might have caught the man.... :rolleyes:

Here's an interesting Arsene Wenger quote from 2002. He was defending Arsenal's dreadful disciplinary record at that time: "(You have to admire) the passion and commitment of the English game. You have to ask yourself if you want to take that out of the game here. When I watch a Serie A game, I'm bored after five minutes. If you want totally clean football, you'll get bored."

Funny how his priorities have changed. I guess that's what managers do in their attempts to manipulate the referee...
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Yorkyblue » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:52 pm

I think that Shawcross video is when he was on loan at Antwerp.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Yorkyblue wrote:I think that Shawcross video is when he was on loan at Antwerp.

Which means he was 18 years old...
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby ESFSAFC » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:17 pm

I wonder if Pulis hadn't of got you playing the way Stoke did during his time, long balls, Delap Football and if Shawcross hadn't been involved in a few high profile incidents would he have moved to a bigger club or had more interest in him from bigger clubs as I do think he could manage a step up.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Cripps » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:28 pm

Didn't shawcross also injure Adebayor?

He has a history of it. Makes me laugh how people with limited knowledge keep defending him. It's there for all to see.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:15 am

Cripps wrote:Didn't shawcross also injure Adebayor?

He has a history of it. Makes me laugh how people with limited knowledge keep defending him. It's there for all to see.

I've already spoken about it. Nothing on the Gallas thing? Didn't think so kiddo
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:26 am

StokeFan wrote:
Cripps wrote:Didn't shawcross also injure Adebayor?

He has a history of it. Makes me laugh how people with limited knowledge keep defending him. It's there for all to see.

I've already spoken about it. Nothing on the Gallas thing? Didn't think so kiddo


Stop deflecting. The point is Shawcross has a history of reckless tackling, evinced by the fact he's injured three players.

RE that video featuring one of Shawcross' specials, why does it matter if he was 18 years old at the time?
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Cripps » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:32 am

StokeFan wrote:
Cripps wrote:Didn't shawcross also injure Adebayor?

He has a history of it. Makes me laugh how people with limited knowledge keep defending him. It's there for all to see.

I've already spoken about it. Nothing on the Gallas thing? Didn't think so kiddo

Avoiding the issue is hardly speaking about it. As for Gallas, I don't remember it. There will always be bad challenges, tackles etc. doubt many are intentional. Doubt wenger told Gallas to get stuck in hard on them and let them know he's there.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:04 am

VAVAVOOM 14 wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
Cripps wrote:Didn't shawcross also injure Adebayor?

He has a history of it. Makes me laugh how people with limited knowledge keep defending him. It's there for all to see.

I've already spoken about it. Nothing on the Gallas thing? Didn't think so kiddo


Stop deflecting. The point is Shawcross has a history of reckless tackling, evinced by the fact he's injured three players.

RE that video featuring one of Shawcross' specials, why does it matter if he was 18 years old at the time?

Because the excuse used for Jack Wilshere when he put that ridiculous challenge on the Birmingham City player (Zigic was it?) by many Arsenal fans is that he was young. So was Ryan Shawcross, but seeing as age has no bearing (in your eyes), I assume Wilshere just a nasty thug then? I would think about your reply before you write it, because you run a very big risk of looking like Captain Hypocrite if you don't word it correctly...

Cripps wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
Cripps wrote:Didn't shawcross also injure Adebayor?

He has a history of it. Makes me laugh how people with limited knowledge keep defending him. It's there for all to see.

I've already spoken about it. Nothing on the Gallas thing? Didn't think so kiddo

Avoiding the issue is hardly speaking about it. As for Gallas, I don't remember it. There will always be bad challenges, tackles etc. doubt many are intentional. Doubt wenger told Gallas to get stuck in hard on them and let them know he's there.

How have I avoided the issue Cripps? It's been done to death. I've wrote bloody borderline lectures in this thread where I've explained it was a bad tackle, and we all acknowledge that, but we refuse to accept the outcome were his intentions. I don't really know what else you want me to say.

I'm not surprised you don't remember it, blissful ignorance is key. Considering Arsenal have had 100 red cards under Arsene Wenger, are you suggesting that he has never told his players to go out and get aggressive? Or does that just come naturally?
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:36 pm

StokeFan wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:That Giroud pic is not comparable to the one of your player. Firstly, I think a shove on the face is fundamentally different. And that's what it was a shove, or at worst, he was holding his neck. Your guy looks like he's strangling someone... which he wasn't, fair enough, but the difference is obvious

I appreciate the two aren't comparable, because one is an angelic Arsenal player who can do no wrong in your eyes, and the other is an evil Stoke player from the land of mordor, otherwise known as the North where we're all so backward and stupid, we merely jump from episode to episode of Jeremy Kyle while hiding our pints of scrumpy cider down our big jackets filled with stolen goods and look forward to our late night bar fights. Feel free to fill in any other stereotypes that I assume you associate with anyone north of the Watford Gap...

Charlie Adam didn't strangle Sanchez give me a f***ing break. Sanchez did him hands down (he's done plenty of players this season), and Adam wrapped his arm round him and merely held him from getting any further. It was naughty, it was daft, it could have cost us a goal, but most importantly, it was his only action in a cameo that lasted about 2 minutes, yet you unsurprisingly associate his only action on the pitch that with of an excellent Stoke City performance on the day... no doubt another way to mask the failings of your own team at the Britannia. Is it too much to admit we happened to outplay you that day? That in reality, only thanks to two very favourable refereeing decisions (favourable ref decisions to Arsenal... never) was it not 4-0 to Stoke part way through the second half? I don't expect you to give us credit publicly, I know that's hard, maybe it's just something you can think in the back of your mind... if possible eh? :)


Brilliant.... accusing me of stereotypes I never made
Re: Bolded second paragraph, and I quote my POST which you quoted
which he wasn't, fair enough


It was an action cameo that lasted 2 minutes but note the difference. Sanchez did nothing to provoke this. The other incident was provoked, was a LOT less violent

Stop with the victim mentality, I have never accused anyone from the North of being uneducated, etc. You don't see us attacking Mags and Mackems, they're up north too, show me one thread on GW or elsewhere where we call Mackems uneducated Louts from Mordor or something
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:31 pm

GoonerAlexis wrote:Brilliant.... accusing me of stereotypes I never made
Re: Bolded second paragraph, and I quote my POST which you quoted
which he wasn't, fair enough


It was an action cameo that lasted 2 minutes but note the difference. Sanchez did nothing to provoke this. The other incident was provoked, was a LOT less violent

Stop with the victim mentality, I have never accused anyone from the North of being uneducated, etc. You don't see us attacking Mags and Mackems, they're up north too, show me one thread on GW or elsewhere where we call Mackems uneducated Louts from Mordor or something

I haven't really accused you of anything, but I'm merely taking a punt on the likelihood that if I scrolled back through your posts, I'm sure I could find something about the orcs from Mordor. You're not the only one, I'm just pointing it out.

You make it sound like Charlie had Sanchez on the floor and throttled him to within an inch of his life. Sanchez ran past him. Charlie grabbed him and bear hugged him. There was nothing violent about it at all. Like I said, it was stupid because it could have cost us a win we thoroughly deserved, but to call it violent is another massive exaggeration (yet I was called out for that Cesc tackle?).

Also, to call Giroud's shove in the face of Shawcross justified because he was provoked is daft as well. I wonder if Shawcross had shoved him back whether you'd be saying "oh well Giroud shoved him, so it was fair game". Doubt it. In reality, neither were violent, that's a word you use, not me, however Giroud's was potentially more aggressive. He after all, struck out, whereas Charlie didn't. Funny how we all see things differently isn't it?
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:45 pm

Debuchy out three months.....

FA is pathetic
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:48 pm

StokeFan wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:Brilliant.... accusing me of stereotypes I never made
Re: Bolded second paragraph, and I quote my POST which you quoted
which he wasn't, fair enough


It was an action cameo that lasted 2 minutes but note the difference. Sanchez did nothing to provoke this. The other incident was provoked, was a LOT less violent

Stop with the victim mentality, I have never accused anyone from the North of being uneducated, etc. You don't see us attacking Mags and Mackems, they're up north too, show me one thread on GW or elsewhere where we call Mackems uneducated Louts from Mordor or something

I haven't really accused you of anything, but I'm merely taking a punt on the likelihood that if I scrolled back through your posts, I'm sure I could find something about the orcs from Mordor. You're not the only one, I'm just pointing it out.

You make it sound like Charlie had Sanchez on the floor and throttled him to within an inch of his life. Sanchez ran past him. Charlie grabbed him and bear hugged him. There was nothing violent about it at all. Like I said, it was stupid because it could have cost us a win we thoroughly deserved, but to call it violent is another massive exaggeration (yet I was called out for that Cesc tackle?).

Also, to call Giroud's shove in the face of Shawcross justified because he was provoked is daft as well. I wonder if Shawcross had shoved him back whether you'd be saying "oh well Giroud shoved him, so it was fair game". Doubt it. In reality, neither were violent, that's a word you use, not me, however Giroud's was potentially more aggressive. He after all, struck out, whereas Charlie didn't. Funny how we all see things differently isn't it?

There are only 20, scroll through them, if you wish. Giroud was provoked, Charlie was not. I can understand any violent action after being provoked but unprovoked, nope. Doesn't mean Giroud was right
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