11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:14 pm

GoonerAlexis wrote:Debuchy out three months.....

FA is pathetic

I agree, they should have charged both of them. :think:
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:11 am

LOL. I like how you again deflected and ignored the main premise of my post, so I ask again: what say you about the fact Shawcross has injured 3 players, is that not evidence of him being a reckless player?
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Cripps » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:14 am

I also remember a challenge on Koscielny a couple of years ago.

But apparently he's not that type of player.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:09 am

VAVAVOOM 14 wrote:LOL. I like how you again deflected and ignored the main premise of my post, so I ask again: what say you about the fact Shawcross has injured 3 players, is that not evidence of him being a reckless player?

No deflection. He's a defender, a passionate and committed one. As a defender, he's perhaps more likely to injure another player than say a striker. For me, the fact he's injured 3 players is not evidence of him being a reckless player at all. Firstly the three incidents you speak of were all when he was young and inexperienced player (19, 20 and 22 respectively). Secondly, his disciplinary record since then year on year has been one of the best in the Premiership for a defender. Your own Calum Chambers has picked up several more cards this year than Ryan (By a long way in fact) including both yellows and reds. Wilshere has picked up the same number of yellows as Shawcross despite missing half the season with injury. Last season, Flamini had a far worse disciplinary record than Shawcross, as did Wilshere and.... strangely enough Tomas Rosicky, another one of your injury nightmares.

Ryan hasn't missed a game for us this season, and only missed one game for us last season due to picking up 5 bookings, his final sum for the season. All things considered, those stats are pretty tell-tale as to how dirty/reckless a player he is. He isn't. The stats don't lie my friend and you have to answer that, or won't, I predict. In Pulis' last season, Shawcross picked up more bookings than under Hughes reign altogether, but still no red cards, perhaps this was a sign of Tony Pulis influence on him, or perhaps it was because we were still playing a much rougher game and now we're an evolving team. Under Hughes, Shawcross is playing the best football of his career and makes our shambolic defence look half decent. Honestly, it's pretty poor nowadays aside from Ryan. He does the job of four defenders, on his own... you might think he's shit but unlike yourselves, we see him every game not just twice a year and for two minutes on Match of the Day (if you actually watch after the Arsenal game...). It's also clear under Hughes that he's also picking up less cards. He's turned into a terrific defender. Hell, he's the kind of defender that would solidify your own back four so much, thank god you guys hate him so much that Arsene's ego wouldn't let him put in a cheeky bid. :)

Your problem is and I suppose this a generational thing, you like it when stats back-up your argument, but you don't like it when I am able introduce stats that completely contradict your argument, like I've just done. It's the whole "Wenger can do no wrong, everyone is against us, we should win the league because we play better football than everyone else" modern generation of Arsenal fan, that is so far away from the Arsenal fans I used to know and associate with. A self-entitled supporter who feels he/she is owed something for nothing. Perhaps I'm pre-judging here, but when I heard that muppet Ty on ArsenalFanTV (yes, he's a funny guy) call us "nobodies" after we'd just played you off the park at the Britannia, there's someone who expects Arsenal to win every game, just because they're Arsenal. Self-entitlement... "oh the little clubs should roll over because we're Arsenal and that means we shouldn't even have to turn up. Plus why should we turn up at a horrible place like Stoke, we're better people than you". You see where I'm going with this? Tell me Ty doesn't think like that without feeling like a liar... and he's not the only one.

I've now given you a fairly honest explanation regarding the 3 injuries. He was young, he was inexperienced and he was still a raw talent developing as a player. He's now blossomed into a very good centre back who has a good disciplinary record. Whether you like it or not (And no doubt it's more of the latter), he would walk into the England squad if he didn't play for Stoke, but Woy's politics and media bias (apparently that doesn't exist... right?) means only players from Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are actively considered with Man City slowly getting in on the fray. Yes, you sometimes have the flavour of the month like Southampton who Woy bought a season ticket for last year and Everton, but really, Woy never considers looking at anyone else outside of the five I mentioned.

Now, maybe you could give an honest assessment of why the dirtiest player on the planet (in your opinion) seems to have a better discipline record over the last few years than a number of Arsenal players? Flamini, Wilshere, Rosicky, now Chambers?

For what it's worth, I wonder if I trawled through the archives and found out if there were many injuries caused by Dixon, Adams, Bould and Winterburn, whether you'd be calling them reckless?

Edit:
Oh, and by the way, I found this in an article, thought you might like it... regarding the Shawcross red card:
"The referee himself admitting that the tackle was not worthy of a red card and that it was the injury that prompted the sending off." ... "Even Lee Dixon, said it was little more than an accident, this a player who has captained Arsenal"

Cripps wrote:I also remember a challenge on Koscielny a couple of years ago.

But apparently he's not that type of player.

Don't remember this. Sorry.
Last edited by StokeFan on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Dubs4Sam » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:18 am

Image

Captain of Stoke

Image

Captain of the Orcs
Image
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:21 am

Dubs4Sam wrote:Image

Captain of Stoke

Image

Captain of the Orcs

Wow... how inventive.

Martin Keown
Image

Primitive Man
Image

Yawn...
Image
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Dubs4Sam » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:33 am

Ah yeah great looking man was our Martin. Great with the ladies.


Sport Trivia - Did you know at half time between Arsenal and Southampton in 1993 Martin showed the rest of the team how to start a fire using two twigs.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby arsebandit » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:39 am

StokeFan wrote:
Dubs4Sam wrote:Image

Captain of Stoke

Image

Captain of the Orcs

Wow... how inventive.

Martin Keown
Image

Primitive Man
Image

Yawn...
Image


:-) :-) Very good!!

Have to say Keown was one of the greatest centre halfs EVER in the world EVER! & wish we still had him.. If Shawcross can reach half Keown's level he'll be some player, which I happen to think he is & would love him in our team. Just ma 3 cents.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:42 am

arsebandit wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
Dubs4Sam wrote:Image

Captain of Stoke

Image

Captain of the Orcs

Wow... how inventive.

Martin Keown
Image

Primitive Man
Image

Yawn...
Image


:-) :-) Very good!!

Have to say Keown was one of the greatest centre halfs EVER in the world EVER! & wish we still had him.. If Shawcross can reach half Keown's level he'll be some player, which I happen to think he is & would love him in our team. Just ma 3 cents.


You don't wish you had Adams? You wish you had Keown... mind boggling lol.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby arsebandit » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:53 am

StokeFan wrote:
arsebandit wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
Dubs4Sam wrote:Image

Captain of Stoke

Image

Captain of the Orcs

Wow... how inventive.

Martin Keown
Image

Primitive Man
Image

Yawn...
Image


:-) :-) Very good!!

Have to say Keown was one of the greatest centre halfs EVER in the world EVER! & wish we still had him.. If Shawcross can reach half Keown's level he'll be some player, which I happen to think he is & would love him in our team. Just ma 3 cents.


You don't wish you had Adams? You wish you had Keown... mind boggling lol.


How very dim of me...
I wasn't aware you were offering options??
As you had posted 2 pics of Keown the impaler I foolishly fired off a post ABOUT Keown...
Sorry let me re-phrase....
I SHOULD'VE said ' Dennis was an amazing player & shawcross can only hope to be half as good... Though realistically shawcross will never be as good as Bergkamp.

JEEEEEEEEE ZUZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:30 pm

arsebandit wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
arsebandit wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
Dubs4Sam wrote:Image

Captain of Stoke

Image

Captain of the Orcs

Wow... how inventive.

Martin Keown
Image

Primitive Man
Image

Yawn...
Image


:-) :-) Very good!!

Have to say Keown was one of the greatest centre halfs EVER in the world EVER! & wish we still had him.. If Shawcross can reach half Keown's level he'll be some player, which I happen to think he is & would love him in our team. Just ma 3 cents.


You don't wish you had Adams? You wish you had Keown... mind boggling lol.


How very dim of me...
I wasn't aware you were offering options??
As you had posted 2 pics of Keown the impaler I foolishly fired off a post ABOUT Keown...
Sorry let me re-phrase....
I SHOULD'VE said ' Dennis was an amazing player & shawcross can only hope to be half as good... Though realistically shawcross will never be as good as Bergkamp.

JEEEEEEEEE ZUZZZZZZZZZZZZ


That's more like it. :1970_two_smileys_drinking_beer_together.gif:

Adams was one of my favourite non Stoke players growing up. Even after the drink driving shit, the way he continued at the top level was terrific. I always liked to compare any good defender to him.

Guy was a top defender, and a good bloke. Shit manager mind.

Keown on the other hand I don't have much time for.

Cracking player was Dennis.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Angelito » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:30 pm

Vinny wrote:It was an extremely bad tackle.
It happens, its a contact sport.
We have had players who have done some crazy tackles down the years.

We All need to get over it.


With this, I hope we all can also move away from this discussion.
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:08 am

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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby Santi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:47 am

dont understand how it works - stoke have the most yellows in that list!
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Re: 11/01/15 | Arsenal 3-0 Stoke City | Premier League

Postby StokeFan » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:55 pm

Mesüt wrote:dont understand how it works - stoke have the most yellows in that list!

I think the other metric is perhaps fouls conceded. Dunno. Kind of funny though. We know we're a physical team, but we also know that we're a lot cleaner than some people give us credit for :P

Also, don't forget the ridiculous FA disciplinary table awards good behaviour points to, and I quote, "fans that clap the opposition". With all due respect, such a ridiculous idea would never take off at Stoke so we often get penalized in the FA's own disciplinary table for that.
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