Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby aniym » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:04 pm

No1Fan wrote:
gooney wrote:
No1Fan wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:You ever watched Vidal No1? By that I obviously mean a good amount of times.


i haven't watched him 50+ games, but i have watched him about 8-15 games. He isnt on ramsey level in my opinion. A very good player i'll admit but i just rate ramsey modric and toure higher. Had ramsey stayed fit all season he would have achieved a similar goal total to yaya imo. We are equally as dependent on ramsey as man city are on toure. Look at how we've fallen without ramsey in midfield. Remember we were top before his injury.

Sh1t like this is why other fans laugh at us and how we overrate whenever our players have good form. I mean Wilshere was amazing as well and what happened? Vidal is proven world class midfielder who has been doing it for long time. He would be a Bayern player if Leverkusen didnt refuse to make business.


i rate ramsey above bayerns midfielders too


Based on the 4-5 months he's played for 2013/14? How about waiting until Ramsey plays a full, injury free season (fingers crossed) before rating him as better than ALL of Bayern's midfielders?
aniym
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:43 am

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Angelito » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:11 pm

GSK_AFC wrote:Vidal > Ramsey > Toure

Modric is a top 5 CM too but he isn't really a B2B.


Dude that's seriously overrating Ramsey and underrating Toure. Yaya is the best CM in the world right now. He's been doing this for over 4 seasons, whilst Ramsey just started out this season. In 2 years time, if he keeps this up, he will surpass Toure. Not today.

Big game player. World class. Mr. Consistency. City's talisman. That's Toure. Ramsey could be Toure but he isn't yet.


Cripps wrote:Wow

Half a good season and he's the best in the world?

The others mentioned have been doing it for years


It's shocking. I had to blink a couple of times before it sank in. :P


Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:Vidal > Ramsey > Toure

Modric is a top 5 CM too but he isn't really a B2B.


When did Ramsey become better than Toure?


Never. Toure is on another level to every CM out there right now.


gooney wrote:
Arsenal~Fanatic wrote:Toure is right when he says people do not give him enough credit. I like Ramsey and his transformation but it would be an insult for toure to be compared with ramsey at this stageof his carrier. Toure has been consistently outstanding in the last few years. Ramsey has the potential to get there but right now it is not even a contest. Vidal is top class and again easily better than ramsey right now. As i said ramsey may surpass them both in future if he stays fit and maintains his form but right now the duo are clearly better than him.

This is Arsenal where few good months and you are world class :rofll:


Yeah, we're really overrating Ramsey... He's had a breakthrough season and would have challenged Suarez for the POTY if he had remained fit, but the real test starts now for him.
Image
User avatar
Angelito
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 26095
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: The Overlook Hotel

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby StockGooner » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:18 pm

Ramsey can't be considered as a top 5 CM in the world, not even top 10 I wouldn't think. He's had a very good season when he's been available. If he had carried his form from the first half of the season, and not got injured, then we could talk about him being up for PFA nomination, but that doesn't make him a top 5 CM.

His form right now is also good, but he's played pretty much 200 minutes of football (Roughly?) in a few weeks and fresh back from an injury. He's probably running on a bit of adrenaline as players do when they get back playing and also he's playing against players who haven't had a rest for four months or so, so while he can easily make that 20 yard sprint to join an attack, his tracker might be a split second delayed because of mental/physical exhaustion.

I really hope he can have all of next season injury free so we can really see his true colours, then if he is consistent lets see, but top 5? Really? Standards?
User avatar
StockGooner
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:56 pm
Location: Stockport, UK

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Massa » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:19 pm

Ramsey is better than the likes of Pirlo, Gundogan etc. He's on Toure/Vidal level for me
Image
User avatar
Massa
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 36377
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:28 pm

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Angelito » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:23 pm

StockGooner wrote:Ramsey can't be considered as a top 5 CM in the world, not even top 10 I wouldn't think. He's had a very good season when he's been available. If he had carried his form from the first half of the season, and not got injured, then we could talk about him being up for PFA nomination, but that doesn't make him a top 5 CM.

His form right now is also good, but he's played pretty much 200 minutes of football (Roughly?) in a few weeks and fresh back from an injury. He's probably running on a bit of adrenaline as players do when they get back playing and also he's playing against players who haven't had a rest for four months or so, so while he can easily make that 20 yard sprint to join an attack, his tracker might be a split second delayed because of mental/physical exhaustion.

I really hope he can have all of next season injury free so we can really see his true colours, then if he is consistent lets see, but top 5? Really? Standards?


He's not a top-5. By this time next season, he can. The guys above him have been bossing shit consistently for years now. Ramsey's only started this season. He has the potential but he's not there yet. Talk about overrating somebody.
Image
User avatar
Angelito
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 26095
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: The Overlook Hotel

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:29 pm

StockGooner wrote:Ramsey can't be considered as a top 5 CM in the world, not even top 10 I wouldn't think. He's had a very good season when he's been available. If he had carried his form from the first half of the season, and not got injured, then we could talk about him being up for PFA nomination, but that doesn't make him a top 5 CM.

His form right now is also good, but he's played pretty much 200 minutes of football (Roughly?) in a few weeks and fresh back from an injury. He's probably running on a bit of adrenaline as players do when they get back playing and also he's playing against players who haven't had a rest for four months or so, so while he can easily make that 20 yard sprint to join an attack, his tracker might be a split second delayed because of mental/physical exhaustion.

I really hope he can have all of next season injury free so we can really see his true colours, then if he is consistent lets see, but top 5? Really? Standards?

Some good points there.

Consistency and longevity along with fitness are something you do not overlook when judging a player. Ramsey version 2 has just begun his journey. He has massive potential but potential is nothing if you cannot harness it. Next couple of seasons will dictate which bracket he will fit in
User avatar
Arsenal~Fanatic
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 24373
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby GunnGunn » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:36 pm

Ramsey has proven me wrong big time, after his leg break i thought he was finished, and at one point i never wanted to see another backheel ever again. He is a rare breed of balance which you just don't see anymore. The modern game has too many extreme's in regards to player positioning.

He is a great player for us but he is being compared to players that have forgotten more about being good at what they do.

Overating him just invites unecessary pressure and inflated expectations. Which leads to more extremes of opinion. Just let the man get on with his f***ing game.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
They see' me Trollin', they hatin'
User avatar
GunnGunn
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 18994
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: London

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Ramsey of old did not have a great deal of expectations to deal with in contrast today he is expected to perform at a high level on a consistent basis. Top players thrive under the weight of expectations. When you make a top ten list the ability of a player to rally the team around, and the ability to change the course of a game on an individual basis is also extremely crucial. Ramsey has all the ingredients but he needs to show he can do show he can dictate stuff on a consistent basis.
User avatar
Arsenal~Fanatic
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 24373
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:52 pm

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby GunnGunn » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:38 pm

Consistency makes players world class, not raw ability. Let him get that consistency first.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
They see' me Trollin', they hatin'
User avatar
GunnGunn
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 18994
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: London

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Angelito » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:10 pm

GunnGunn wrote:Consistency makes players world class, not raw ability. Let him get that consistency first.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


This.
Image
User avatar
Angelito
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 26095
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: The Overlook Hotel

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby CynicalGooner » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:20 pm

Massa wrote:Ramsey is better than the likes of Pirlo, Gundogan etc. He's on Toure/Vidal level for me

Between those two levels for me

Although Pilro can still pull off the odd game here and there and be the best in the world for 90 minutes.
#YaGunnersYa
User avatar
CynicalGooner
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 14975
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:43 am

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Zedie » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:46 pm

I think reserving judgment for another season is fair enough. 6 months WC form does not a WC player make, however those 6 months, plus his form since hes been back and our immediate improvement is not a coincidence.

to say he is better than toure is a massive statement imo, however I will say he has had the same level of impact on our team as yaya has had with city.

Im not able to really rate any top player from serie A as ive never seen one come over and absolutely kill it and most would agree its an inferior league so I dont really have an opinion on Vidal.

all I know is that this summer, the vultures will try to unsettle and next season, barring injuries, ramsey could well become a top 5 PL player and top 5 in the world midfielder.

He has the potential and the ability to back it, he just needs to do it season after season now, which I think he really can.
Image
User avatar
Zedie
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 33184
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:09 pm
Location: in the man cave

Re: Arsenal 3-0 Newcastle | Premier League 28/04/14

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:42 pm

GunnGunn wrote:Ramsey has proven me wrong big time, after his leg break i thought he was finished, and at one point i never wanted to see another backheel ever again. He is a rare breed of balance which you just don't see anymore. The modern game has too many extreme's in regards to player positioning.

He is a great player for us but he is being compared to players that have forgotten more about being good at what they do.

Overating him just invites unecessary pressure and inflated expectations. Which leads to more extremes of opinion. Just let the man get on with his f***ing game.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



ahahha those backheels are what always infuriated me, the guy wasn't f***ing good enough to be doing that shit. he still shouldn't do them much but i've grown to love him now based on the fact our other midfielders are all sideways W****rs. he had a poor first 30 mins against newcastle though and is nowhere near the likes of toure, modric and vidal. heck even xabi alonso is still better.
#YoPierre
User avatar
Santi
Member of the Year 2017
Member of the Year 2017
 
Posts: 33485
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Previous

Return to Matchday Chat 13/14

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest