Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Royal Gooner » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:30 pm

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


That's the thing that gets me. It wasn't a tackle in the conventional meaning, Chesney had eyes only for the ball and couldn't pull out.

in fact, I don't even think it was a red because robben had already played the ball before Chesney touched him, thus how can it be a goalscoring opportunity?
User avatar
Royal Gooner
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:38 pm

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Myrmedus » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:34 pm

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


Again, you can easily make it a red for a professional foul.
Go Cannons!!
Myrmedus
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby UFGN » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:38 pm

Myrmedus wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


Again, you can easily make it a red for a professional foul.


No you can't 'easily' do that. They get to see it once, at full speed. Its too much to ask a ref to pick from shades of grey in those circumstances. He has to make an instant decission.
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby gooney » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:44 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


That's the thing that gets me. It wasn't a tackle in the conventional meaning, Chesney had eyes only for the ball and couldn't pull out.

in fact, I don't even think it was a red because robben had already played the ball before Chesney touched him, thus how can it be a goalscoring opportunity?

It was as clear red card for denying goal scoring opportunity as you will see. Intentions dont matter if you foul someone in the penalty area. In fact 99% of penalties given are unintentional
gooney
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15690
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Royal Gooner » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:46 pm

gooney wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


That's the thing that gets me. It wasn't a tackle in the conventional meaning, Chesney had eyes only for the ball and couldn't pull out.

in fact, I don't even think it was a red because robben had already played the ball before Chesney touched him, thus how can it be a goalscoring opportunity?

It was as clear red card for denying goal scoring opportunity as you will see. Intentions dont matter if you foul someone in the penalty area. In fact 99% of penalties given are unintentional


You've missed my second point, Robben had already played the shot when Chesney touched him. Thus how is it a goalscoring opportunity when he has already kicked the ball away when playing the shot and was nowhere near the ball when he got touched.
User avatar
Royal Gooner
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:38 pm

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Myrmedus » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:03 pm

UFGN wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


Again, you can easily make it a red for a professional foul.


No you can't 'easily' do that. They get to see it once, at full speed. Its too much to ask a ref to pick from shades of grey in those circumstances. He has to make an instant decission.


He doesn't. It's happened many times in the past that a referee has thought on it AND conferred with the linesman. Professional fouls are given all the time in the game right now and usually they're pretty obvious.
Go Cannons!!
Myrmedus
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:12 pm

How do you decide whether it's a professional foul? There's a reason they avoid mentioning "intent" in the laws of the game (with the exception of hand-ball, for the nitpickers). It's because it's damn hard to judge. It's much easier and fairer to judge what the player has actually done, not whether they meant to do it or not.
User avatar
ThereIsBearCüm
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15478
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:17 pm
Location: Straya

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:15 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


That's the thing that gets me. It wasn't a tackle in the conventional meaning, Chesney had eyes only for the ball and couldn't pull out.

in fact, I don't even think it was a red because robben had already played the ball before Chesney touched him, thus how can it be a goalscoring opportunity?


Because Robben had taken it past Szczesny and would have had a simple tap in if he wasn't fouled.

And it's very easy to look like you have eyes for the ball while taking someone out. Source? I'm a goalkeeper ;)
Not saying that Szczesny deliberately took Robben out, but it would be impossible for the referee to judge whether he meant to or not. He's not a mind-reader.
User avatar
ThereIsBearCüm
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15478
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:17 pm
Location: Straya

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:17 pm

Youngie wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


A yellow and a penalty would be enough in my book. It just seems a little too harsh the goal down and being down to ten men.

:hiding:


We weren't a goal down though. They still had to score the penalty, which was evidently a harder chance than Robben tapping it into an empty net. If Szczesny wasn't sent off, we would have got out of the situation virtually scott free. That's not something you want to encourage.
User avatar
ThereIsBearCüm
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15478
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:17 pm
Location: Straya

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Santi » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:41 am

Don't think it was a red, especially since Boateng's wasn't and then his subsequent foul on Wilshere didn't get him a second yellow..where's any consistency? Szczesny's momentum took him into Robben, clear pen and a booking would be fair imo. Don't think any changes to the rule are necessary, but the ref should be able to use a bit of judgement in that situation and going off the rest of the game I think a yellow should've been given.
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Santi » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:42 am

Oh and the bigger loss was Gibbs going off rather than the red because Monreal is doing some Andre Santos impression atm, he's f***ing dire as a defender.
Image
User avatar
Santi
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 40602
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:11 am

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Youngie » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:48 am

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
Youngie wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
ivän itchybüm wrote:So much positives from this game yet people acting like it was a horror show. Before the red card (stupid rule) WE were the better team.


It's really not a stupid rule. If it wasn't a red, you'd see this kind of tackle every game. If the defender knows they're going to score, why not bring them down and take the yellow and hope the penalty is saved/missed? There's really very little to lose from doing that. Players are more than happy to take a yellow just to stop a counter attack, they'd definitely be happy to take one if it stopped a goal.


A yellow and a penalty would be enough in my book. It just seems a little too harsh the goal down and being down to ten men.

:hiding:


We weren't a goal down though. They still had to score the penalty, which was evidently a harder chance than Robben tapping it into an empty net. If Szczesny wasn't sent off, we would have got out of the situation virtually scott free. That's not something you want to encourage.


Granted the penalty was missed, but in 8/10 retakes that's a goal down and we are down to 10 men.

It must just be me but every time our oppenents get a penalty against us i just take it as a given that they'll score. Anything else is just a bonus

:dontknow:
Youngie
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5806
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:26 pm
Location: Lockies

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:48 am

Mesüt wrote:Don't think it was a red, especially since Boateng's wasn't and then his subsequent foul on Wilshere didn't get him a second yellow..where's any consistency? Szczesny's momentum took him into Robben, clear pen and a booking would be fair imo. Don't think any changes to the rule are necessary, but the ref should be able to use a bit of judgement in that situation and going off the rest of the game I think a yellow should've been given.


The ref has to use the laws of the game. Szczesny clearly denied an obvious goal-scoring opportunity so he has to go. Boateng didn't, so it's not a red. Shouldn't have even been a yellow really.
User avatar
ThereIsBearCüm
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15478
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:17 pm
Location: Straya

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Angelito » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:02 am

If the CL is Wenger's ultimate trophy, that further proves how poor he is tactically. In all these years, we have 1 final and 1 semifinal to show for. Like really? 16 seasons and counting.
Image
User avatar
Angelito
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 30541
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Lyra

Re: Arsenal 0-2 FC Bayern | Champions League 19/02/14

Postby Zenith » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:21 pm

@ThePuntersPage
Neuer & Ozil pictured in the same youth team. I'm more worried about how high the kid in the top left has his shorts.

Image
Image
User avatar
Zenith
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 38000
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:48 pm
Location: Across the North Sea, 200-something miles away from The Grove

PreviousNext

Return to Matchday Chat 2013-14

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests