Goonersworld

Angelito wrote:^ Eh, you're taking it seriously in a way that I didn't intend it to be. Stop being so mechanical in everything!

It's just what I "feel." I don't get good "vibes" from Vermaelen. Yesterday, the moment I saw him with the captain's band, I knew something wouldn't be right.

Also, you're conveniently ignoring that Arteta is undefeated in the League as Arsenal captain. I never talked about the CL. I've always spoken about our undefeated run with Arteta as our captain.

Get off it... It's what I feel and I don't need to have scientific facts to back it of. Also, there is a thing called "luck." Ask Chelsea fans and they'd tell you about it.

This has to be the most asinine/ludicrous statement I've ever read on the internet.

Because you - an Arsenal fan who has no bearing on the results the team achieves - "feels" like Vermaelen has a bad aura/negative energy, Vermaelen playing and negative results must have a correlation?

Thats a most paranoid and insane conclusion to draw.

Up untill his last long term injury Vermaelen was a top quality CB, your a bit out of order tbh..

Callum wrote:

Angelito wrote:^ Eh, you're taking it seriously in a way that I didn't intend it to be. Stop being so mechanical in everything!

It's just what I "feel." I don't get good "vibes" from Vermaelen. Yesterday, the moment I saw him with the captain's band, I knew something wouldn't be right.

Also, you're conveniently ignoring that Arteta is undefeated in the League as Arsenal captain. I never talked about the CL. I've always spoken about our undefeated run with Arteta as our captain.

Get off it... It's what I feel and I don't need to have scientific facts to back it of. Also, there is a thing called "luck." Ask Chelsea fans and they'd tell you about it.

Right, okay - so just because you feel something in your ovaries, there's validity in it? If we're going to have a debate about this that's a complete bullshit argument. The fact that you had bad "vibes" from Vermaelen means f**k all, and the fact you're resorting to such flimsy points shows how little you can back up your argument.

Also, why the hell does it matter if it's a Premier League or a Champions League game? You just ignored one so it wouldn't mess up your crackpot argument.

Vermaelen shouts and talks and leads, just like Arteta. There is absolutely no evidence that Arteta or us as a team play better when he is wearing the armband so don't try and make out it's the case because of a "feeling" you have.

Justify our undefeated run with Arteta as captain.

Just bloody shut up if you can't go on without labeling. We lost with Vermaelen as captain. Vermaelen isn't a first team player anymore. And he's the Club captain! The only reason is because Wenger doesn't want to hurt his confidence even more.

Was I even arguing? That's the thing. I wasn't arguing with you or anybody. For somebody who loves stats, we are undefeated in the League under him. That's a STAT. And try arguing against that.

It matters because (that it's the PL and CL) because those are two different ball games and why even both giving the PL Golden Boot at the end of the season if it doesn't matter whether it's the League or the CL. Why bother counting league goals only--let's just count 'em all. Oh jeez, I understand you want to argue because you believe I have a "poor" case, but don't just argue for the sake of it. There is nothing to come out of it.

As long as we don't lose under Arteta, it is a stat. A stat that is important. Why does it matter if we went undefeated in the League too, right? Why does it matter when it's just the League?

If you want to accept it, I have been shouting that we're undefeated in the League with Arteta as captain. I never ignored it but if you're going to become mind-reader or are going to make up stuff, there is no point here. Just piss off.

And yeah, there is no evidence that we play better as a team under Arteta--except that we haven't lost a League game under him! Evidence much? Go cry really. You're just arguing for heck's sake. A stat is a stat and stat don't lie.

^ So are you trying to say if Arteta was captain on Sunday we wouldn't have lost?

GSK_AFC wrote:^ So are you trying to say if Arteta was captain on Sunday we wouldn't have lost?

No. How can I say it for sure? I'm just suggesting based on Arteta's captaincy. The stats are in favor of Arteta. Is that not the case?

Also, Mertesacker being out + Rosicky--in what was the biggest game in the League until then--on top, Vermaelen playing, they are all factors that led to our loss. We've gone over with how the Vermaelen-Koscielny partnership doesn't work and it was a set piece that we couldn't stop again--the usual problem when Vermaelen is at CB.

Personally, I'm happy with Vermaelen as 3rd choice and with Arteta as our standing captain. But captaincy has been the Achilles' heel for us since Vieira left. I just believe that finally with Arteta/Metesacker we have a genuine captain now, and Arteta's league record suggests that he is the right guy.

Angelito wrote:

GSK_AFC wrote:^ So are you trying to say if Arteta was captain on Sunday we wouldn't have lost?

No. How can I say it for sure? I'm just suggesting based on Arteta's captaincy. The stats are in favor of Arteta. Is that not the case?

Also, Mertesacker being out + Rosicky--in what was the biggest game in the League until then--on top, Vermaelen playing, they are all factors that led to our loss. We've gone over with how the Vermaelen-Koscielny partnership doesn't work and it was a set piece that we couldn't stop again--the usual problem when Vermaelen is at CB.

Personally, I'm happy with Vermaelen as 3rd choice and with Arteta as our standing captain. But captaincy has been the Achilles' heel for us since Vieira left. I just believe that finally with Arteta/Metesacker we have a genuine captain now, and Arteta's league record suggests that he is the right guy.

I don't think captaincy or the fact that Vermaelen played any part in us losing, it had more to do with how we attacked than how we defended. We conceded to a set piece because of zonal marking not because Vermaelen was at CB as you suggested.

GSK_AFC wrote:

Angelito wrote:

GSK_AFC wrote:^ So are you trying to say if Arteta was captain on Sunday we wouldn't have lost?

No. How can I say it for sure? I'm just suggesting based on Arteta's captaincy. The stats are in favor of Arteta. Is that not the case?

Also, Mertesacker being out + Rosicky--in what was the biggest game in the League until then--on top, Vermaelen playing, they are all factors that led to our loss. We've gone over with how the Vermaelen-Koscielny partnership doesn't work and it was a set piece that we couldn't stop again--the usual problem when Vermaelen is at CB.

Personally, I'm happy with Vermaelen as 3rd choice and with Arteta as our standing captain. But captaincy has been the Achilles' heel for us since Vieira left. I just believe that finally with Arteta/Metesacker we have a genuine captain now, and Arteta's league record suggests that he is the right guy.

I don't think captaincy or the fact that Vermaelen played any part in us losing, it had more to do with how we attacked than how we defended. We conceded to a set piece because of zonal marking not because Vermaelen was at CB as you suggested.

We dominated United in the second half. But we were toothless in attack, yes. Yet, the goal we conceded is the typical goal we'd concede before the Mert-Kosc partnership jelled. Our record under Vermaelen isn't that impressive either and considering Arteta's run, it's not shocking that we lost. That's the only reason why I bring up Arteta's record.

It wasn't a personnel issue for me. I don't like the Arteta/Flamini partnership, that's way too negative for me. The midfield is where we expected to dominate with our passing, and that didn't happen til late on. I really expected Arteta to have more of an influence on the pace of the game. But that aside, this was a case of the whole team bottling it. I would have tweaked the midfield a bit, but chances are they would have bottled it all the same. No-one was up for it, and that's the sad truth.

We've conceded no goals from set pieces (I think) until Man Utd all season. Don't blame zonal marking...it's been fine in the other games.

Mesüt wrote:We've conceded no goals from set pieces (I think) until Man Utd all season. Don't blame zonal marking...it's been fine in the other games.

With Merts in it. He protects front post and often gets first header.

My scientific assessment: Zonal marking is worthless without Mertesacker!

I really can't be arsed arguing about this much more but it's obvious that correlation doesn't automatically mean causation. You say we won games with Arteta as captain means something, yet you fail to really explain why that would be the case. I don't think you can, because my opinion is that the match result is dependent on a number of variables but the man who wears the armband is not one of them.

We could look back over every season and see when wearing which colour of away kit do we win more games. Lets say the answer is yellow. Does that mean by wearing a yellow away kit we are more likely to win? No, and even if it is a "stat" in your eyes, it's a stat that bears no outcome on the result.

No need to get so pissy, I just think what you're saying is naive and it really makes bugger all difference.

Callum wrote:I really can't be arsed arguing about this much more but it's obvious that correlation doesn't automatically mean causation. You say we won games with Arteta as captain means something, yet you fail to really explain why that would be the case. I don't think you can, because my opinion is that the match result is dependent on a number of variables but the man who wears the armband is not one of them.

We could look back over every season and see when wearing which colour of away kit do we win more games. Lets say the answer is yellow. Does that mean by wearing a yellow away kit we are more likely to win? No, and even if it is a "stat" in your eyes, it's a stat that bears no outcome on the result.

No need to get so pissy, I just think what you're saying is naive and it really makes bugger all difference.

Then why did we dump the use of the purple kit towards the end of last season in favour of the old yellow kit?

How the game should have ended:

Could those stats be any more bullshit? Apparently United have a better defence than and equal midfield to Arsenal - HAHAHAHAHA.

^We're usually average in the first half anyway. I'm sure the full time stats look much better