Arsenal 0-2 Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Massa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:37 pm

Myrmedus wrote:
Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:^ Walcott is not a AM.


He's not a Striker nor a Forward. He's also not really a Winger. That doesn't leave alot of options.

What stupid reasoning lol. He's a winger/wing-forward


About as stupid as describing a player's position by concatenating multiple positions together. I guess I could've called him a wing-forward-100msprinter-semi-striker-TH14wannabe

He shows about as many attributes as a winger as he does an AM for f**k sakes - the only winger-like attribute he has is speed.

Who cares about showing attributes. He plays on the wing as he's always on that bit of the pitch near the edge :thumbsup: It's okay, we all make mistakes mate. Theo an AM lool

Btw he scores, crosses/assists, and has good pace. Sounds like a winger to me.


Are you kidding me? Who cares about attributes? So you're saying if we play Jenkinson in the striking role he's a striker now? How about when a GK gets sent off and there's no replacement on the bench so a CB is played there, is said CB now considered a CB/GK? That is really clutching at straws.

How about Rooney being played in the midfield for United alot of last season? Is he now a midfielder? How about when we play Gerrard on the left for England, is he now a left winger?

He's played in the winger position, doesn't make him a winger. All that makes him is a passable winger in the opinion of one man (Wenger) and to be honest we don't really -have- proper wingers in our team anyway due to our formation. The closest we have to that is Ox.

Also, plenty of attacking midfielders score, assist and have good pace. The only limitation on them crossing is their generally central position.

Jenkinson hasn't played striker all his career and have attributes to fit that role. Neither do all the other examples.

Basically the only attribute you think he is missing to be a winger is the ability to beat a man, and he seemingly has everything else. So the lad plays on the wing all his life, his attributes fit well for a winger, but he's an AM? Okay mate, and I'm the one clutching at straws, lol
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Myrmedus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:40 pm

Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:^ Walcott is not a AM.


He's not a Striker nor a Forward. He's also not really a Winger. That doesn't leave alot of options.

What stupid reasoning lol. He's a winger/wing-forward


About as stupid as describing a player's position by concatenating multiple positions together. I guess I could've called him a wing-forward-100msprinter-semi-striker-TH14wannabe

He shows about as many attributes as a winger as he does an AM for f**k sakes - the only winger-like attribute he has is speed.

Who cares about showing attributes. He plays on the wing as he's always on that bit of the pitch near the edge :thumbsup: It's okay, we all make mistakes mate. Theo an AM lool

Btw he scores, crosses/assists, and has good pace. Sounds like a winger to me.


Are you kidding me? Who cares about attributes? So you're saying if we play Jenkinson in the striking role he's a striker now? How about when a GK gets sent off and there's no replacement on the bench so a CB is played there, is said CB now considered a CB/GK? That is really clutching at straws.

How about Rooney being played in the midfield for United alot of last season? Is he now a midfielder? How about when we play Gerrard on the left for England, is he now a left winger?

He's played in the winger position, doesn't make him a winger. All that makes him is a passable winger in the opinion of one man (Wenger) and to be honest we don't really -have- proper wingers in our team anyway due to our formation. The closest we have to that is Ox.

Also, plenty of attacking midfielders score, assist and have good pace. The only limitation on them crossing is their generally central position.

Jenkinson hasn't played striker all his career and have attributes to fit that role. Neither do all the other examples.

Basically the only attribute you think he is missing to be a winger is the ability to beat a man, and he seemingly has everything else. So the lad plays on the wing all his life, his attributes fit well for a winger, but he's an AM? Okay mate, and I'm the one clutching at straws, lol


Oh, but I thought we weren't talking about attributes? I thought we were just talking about where players played! So yeah, Jenkinson hasn't played that role but how about Rooney and Gerrard eh?

But on attributes, I think his crossing is also not what I'd expect of a winger, and crossing being one of the most important attributes for a winger. So "his attributes fit well for a winger" is just your opinion, not doctrine.

And while I've at least managed to explain why I don't think the winger description fits him you've done nothing to explain what attributes he has/lacks that don't fulfill an AM role, all you've managed to do is bitch about another person's opinion without any backup for your own AND then done a 180 on your original line of argument.
Last edited by Myrmedus on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Callum » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:40 pm

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:No

Phew.

I'm guessing we should still sell half the squad and our season is over though.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Massa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:45 pm

Myrmedus wrote:And while I've at least managed to explain why I don't think the winger description fits him

Not very well. Top assister last season until the penultimate game and he can't cross? Lol. He is build for coming inside and scoring, or going on the outside and getting himself an assist. Has better end product than anyone in our team but apparently not suited to his role, pull the other one

you've done nothing to explain what attributes he has/lacks that don't fulfill an AM role.

Er, he's never played there

But just to appease you he'd be poor there, can't see him threading balls through for our attack, he's the guy which is on the end of those balls (top scorer last season)
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Myrmedus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:47 pm

Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:And while I've at least managed to explain why I don't think the winger description fits him

Not very well. Top assister last season until the penultimate game and he can't cross? Lol. He is build for coming inside and scoring, or going on the outside and getting himself an assist. Has better end product than anyone in our team but apparently not suited to his role, pull the other one

you've done nothing to explain what attributes he has/lacks that don't fulfill an AM role.

Er, he's never played there

But just to appease you he'd be poor there, can't see him threading balls through for our attack, he's the guy which is on the end of those balls (top scorer last season)


These two quotes go in circles as far as I'm concerned.

So, he has a good ability to assist and create chances for our attack but not good at threading balls through for our attack. Got you.

Also, I don't see how assists (quality or quantity) are an indication of crossing ability. So should we assume that Oezil is one of the best crossers on the planet?

I don't believe we play anyone, bar perhaps Ox, as a winger in our team anyway. We mainly use our wing-backs for traditional width. Alot of Walcott's assists are not crosses. Our midfield is very central and malleable, players who are on the left or right end up in the centre or sometimes even on the other side of the pitch. That's why I described him more as an AM because I don't think we have any wingers in our team normally.

In other words, you say he hasn't played as an AM but I'd argue he doesn't really play as a winger either. You obviously view how he plays closer to a winger, I viewed it as closer to an AM (since his position changes alot like everyone else). That's all there is to it.
Last edited by Myrmedus on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Massa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:52 pm

Myrmedus wrote:
Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:And while I've at least managed to explain why I don't think the winger description fits him

Not very well. Top assister last season until the penultimate game and he can't cross? Lol. He is build for coming inside and scoring, or going on the outside and getting himself an assist. Has better end product than anyone in our team but apparently not suited to his role, pull the other one

you've done nothing to explain what attributes he has/lacks that don't fulfill an AM role.

Er, he's never played there

But just to appease you he'd be poor there, can't see him threading balls through for our attack, he's the guy which is on the end of those balls (top scorer last season)


These two quotes go in circles as far as I'm concerned.

So, he has a good ability to assist and create chances for our attack but not good at threading balls through for our attack. Got you.

He has the ability to assist and create chances through crosses.

You can't cross from the AM position. Here, maybe this will explain:

Theo at AM sending in a cross:

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Outcome: ball goes out for a throw

Theo on the wing sending in the cross:

Image

Outcome: ball goes across the face of goal to be hit in the net thingy so Arsenal can score


Hope this helps.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Massa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:54 pm

Myrmedus wrote:Also, I don't see how assists (quality or quantity) are an indication of crossing ability. So should we assume that Oezil is one of the best crossers on the planet?

Ozil doesn't play on the wing. See diagrams above. Also I use my eyes and can see that Theo crosses frequently and amasses the majority of his assists from crosses or cutbacks.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:54 pm

First half where Chelsea barely tested Fabianski and they went ahead cos of foolishness exhibited by Jenkinson.

Second half doubled their lead courtesy of a brilliant Mata strike.

It was one of those games where we did not do too much wrong as a team yet we lost by a couple of goals.

People are reacting like we were chased out of the park by Chelsea. Yes we did not create enough clear cut chances and we made bad decisions in the final third but we were no where near as bad as some of the posts on this thread would lead you to believe.

You want to win every game but the other team wants to win too. We tried hard but we didn't click in the final third. Yes we are out of the league cup but the season is not over. We need to keep our head high and keep chugging along.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Myrmedus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:54 pm

I know that.

My point is that we don't play traditional wingers so ALOT of those assists aren't the typical crossing position you illustrated in the 2nd picture but often a more central assist, ESPECIALLY last season.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Myrmedus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:55 pm

Massa wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:Also, I don't see how assists (quality or quantity) are an indication of crossing ability. So should we assume that Oezil is one of the best crossers on the planet?

Ozil doesn't play on the wing. See diagrams above. Also I use my eyes and can see that Theo crosses frequently and amasses the majority of his assists from crosses or cutbacks.


I don't dispute he crosses frequently, I do dispute he notched up alot of assists last season from crosses.

I also don't think cutbacks are necessarily a winger attribute ie. it's something I think many players would be capable of if they were played out wide. Another way to put is that I think it's more a product of circumstance than the player.
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Myrmedus » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Eeeeh, I'm going to bed now anyway dude.

I understand why you think what you think but I still view alot of our players (incl Walcott) as midfielders who attack aka attacking midfielders. When I think of a winger, I think of a traditional winger like Giggs etc. one who really whips in beautiful crosses and gets into wide positions.

Walcott's "crosses" are usually just low drives across the box from a fairly central position as far as the wing goes (ie. on the edge of the box). I think that's more a product of circumstance (ie. where he's played) rather than his skillset as a player.

And I'm also a bit pissy because of the result tonight ;)
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Swan » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:22 pm

f**k i hate Chelsea fans.. they think they are the best thing since sliced bread..
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Santi » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:13 am

Poor performance, Chelsea offered nothing, we gifted them 2 sloppy goals but we also had little chances at their end..Nacho's probably the best or that Giroud chance. Chelsea fans were annoying as shit but fair play to them, great atmosphere..our crowd was pretty flat all game.

Ashley Cole, has a european cup, a european cup, a european cup
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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Massa » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:14 am

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Re: Arsenal vs Chelsea | League Cup 29/10/13

Postby Santi » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:18 am

That was a great ball from Ramsey, didn't realise Ryo was offside for ages and I was moaning it wasn't a corner!
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