Goonersworld

starmandb wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:Ramsey this season has shown his ability over a few months, Walcott has never been that consistent.

between sept 15th 2012 and 9th feb 2013
southampton at home to sunderland away
theo played 28 games
scored 18 goals and got 13 assists
he must have been f***ing phenominal in that 1 good game in 10 you claim he has during that period

you don't remember the game where theo scored 10 goals?

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:Ramsey this season has shown his ability over a few months, Walcott has never been that consistent.

between sept 15th 2012 and 9th feb 2013
southampton at home to sunderland away
theo played 28 games
scored 18 goals and got 13 assists
he must have been f***ing phenominal in that 1 good game in 10 you claim he has during that period

I was taking the p.

In that period of 28 games, how many of them did he get no goals or assists? I think that stat would be a better indicator.

11 games with no goals or assists
this included
1 min at montpellier
18 min at man city
24 min v chelsea
20 min v olympiacos
23 min v qpr
38 min at man utd
he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring
theo was player of the month in oct nov and dec 2012

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

So in 11/28 games he didn't score or assist. Fair enough, i take back my one good game in ten. Six good games in ten in a period that you chose as his best is not as good as the form Ramsey has shown since the tail end of last season.

It isn't just about the stats though. Sometimes you just have to look at performances and spirit - Ramsey just seems to be able to grab many games by the scruff of the neck in a way that Theo has only managed a handful of times.

So I stand by my statement that Rambo has shown much more consistency recently than Theo ever has.

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

So in 11/28 games he didn't score or assist. Fair enough, i take back my one good game in ten. Six good games in ten in a period that you chose as his best is not as good as the form Ramsey has shown since the tail end of last season.

It isn't just about the stats though. Sometimes you just have to look at performances and spirit - Ramsey just seems to be able to grab many games by the scruff of the neck in a way that Theo has only managed a handful of times.

So I stand by my statement that Rambo has shown much more consistency recently than Theo ever has.

i can do humour
i remember my lip turning in an upwards fashion at george and mildred once
i only highlighted a good game v stoke as a way of praising theo
yes you are right
theo had games where despite scoring or assisting he was not good
below par at schalke scoring
average home to fulham setting up girouds 2 goals
ave at everton scoring from a ramsey pass
below par at wigan earning arteta pen
poor at southampton scoring a deflection
av at chelsea scoring from cazorla pass
i don,t vote for player of the month but many do and in a 3 month period between oct and dec last year he was given the award 3 times.
thats not just me plucking things out the air
i really felt theo was at a crossroads at a point in the 10/11 season and that he needed to develop his game but i really do believe his inteligence in games[a thing i was concerned he did,nt have] has really improved i e his movement
and that despite a prof ilgate display at sunderland he has become much more than just an instinctive finisher
as for taking games by the scruff of the neck theos goals and assists have been responsible for 42 wins or draws
a few examples
the infamous 07/08 birmingham game where he turned round a 1 goal defecit
a game not even in the 42 liverpool away champs league his run for adebayor
everton home[another game not in the 42] where he came on 1 down won 3-1
2-2 with barca 09/10
chelsea home 3-1 10/11
west ham away 3-0
11/12 udinese home
12/13 west ham away 3-0
newcastle home 7-3
the bottom line is i am delighted that ramsey is showing himself to be the player we thought he could be
what i don,t understand is why it has to be at the expense of praise for theo
and there is no such thing as a consolation goal as winning the league at anfield on goal difference in 89 will attest

SML

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

Spot on, exactly why relying on stats and stats alone is a really bad way of judging a player.
And for the record, I remember Ramsey was atrocious against Spurs at the start of the 2011/12 season, even though he scored.

starmandb wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

So in 11/28 games he didn't score or assist. Fair enough, i take back my one good game in ten. Six good games in ten in a period that you chose as his best is not as good as the form Ramsey has shown since the tail end of last season.

It isn't just about the stats though. Sometimes you just have to look at performances and spirit - Ramsey just seems to be able to grab many games by the scruff of the neck in a way that Theo has only managed a handful of times.

So I stand by my statement that Rambo has shown much more consistency recently than Theo ever has.

i can do humour
i remember my lip turning in an upwards fashion at george and mildred once
i only highlighted a good game v stoke as a way of praising theo
yes you are right
theo had games where despite scoring or assisting he was not good
below par at schalke scoring
average home to fulham setting up girouds 2 goals
ave at everton scoring from a ramsey pass
below par at wigan earning arteta pen
poor at southampton scoring a deflection
av at chelsea scoring from cazorla pass
i don,t vote for player of the month but many do and in a 3 month period between oct and dec last year he was given the award 3 times.
thats not just me plucking things out the air
i really felt theo was at a crossroads at a point in the 10/11 season and that he needed to develop his game but i really do believe his inteligence in games[a thing i was concerned he did,nt have] has really improved i e his movement
and that despite a prof ilgate display at sunderland he has become much more than just an instinctive finisher
as for taking games by the scruff of the neck theos goals and assists have been responsible for 42 wins or draws
a few examples
the infamous 07/08 birmingham game where he turned round a 1 goal defecit
a game not even in the 42 liverpool away champs league his run for adebayor
everton home[another game not in the 42] where he came on 1 down won 3-1
2-2 with barca 09/10
chelsea home 3-1 10/11
west ham away 3-0
11/12 udinese home
12/13 west ham away 3-0
newcastle home 7-3
the bottom line is i am delighted that ramsey is showing himself to be the player we thought he could be
what i don,t understand is why it has to be at the expense of praise for theo
and there is no such thing as a consolation goal as winning the league at anfield on goal difference in 89 will attest

Starman

starman u should go apply for a job at opta

Dejan wrote:starman u should go apply for a job at opta

He should replace Hansen on motd.

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

Spot on, exactly why relying on stats and stats alone is a really bad way of judging a player.
And for the record, I remember Ramsey was atrocious against Spurs at the start of the 2011/12 season, even though he scored.

You could argue that you can use these stats if you assume that the games where he played badly and scored/assisted and the games where he played well and didn't score or assist equal each other out.

starmandb wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

So in 11/28 games he didn't score or assist. Fair enough, i take back my one good game in ten. Six good games in ten in a period that you chose as his best is not as good as the form Ramsey has shown since the tail end of last season.

It isn't just about the stats though. Sometimes you just have to look at performances and spirit - Ramsey just seems to be able to grab many games by the scruff of the neck in a way that Theo has only managed a handful of times.

So I stand by my statement that Rambo has shown much more consistency recently than Theo ever has.

i can do humour
i remember my lip turning in an upwards fashion at george and mildred once
i only highlighted a good game v stoke as a way of praising theo
yes you are right
theo had games where despite scoring or assisting he was not good
below par at schalke scoring
average home to fulham setting up girouds 2 goals
ave at everton scoring from a ramsey pass
below par at wigan earning arteta pen
poor at southampton scoring a deflection
av at chelsea scoring from cazorla pass
i don,t vote for player of the month but many do and in a 3 month period between oct and dec last year he was given the award 3 times.
thats not just me plucking things out the air
i really felt theo was at a crossroads at a point in the 10/11 season and that he needed to develop his game but i really do believe his inteligence in games[a thing i was concerned he did,nt have] has really improved i e his movement
and that despite a prof ilgate display at sunderland he has become much more than just an instinctive finisher
as for taking games by the scruff of the neck theos goals and assists have been responsible for 42 wins or draws
a few examples
the infamous 07/08 birmingham game where he turned round a 1 goal defecit
a game not even in the 42 liverpool away champs league his run for adebayor
everton home[another game not in the 42] where he came on 1 down won 3-1
2-2 with barca 09/10
chelsea home 3-1 10/11
west ham away 3-0
11/12 udinese home
12/13 west ham away 3-0
newcastle home 7-3
the bottom line is i am delighted that ramsey is showing himself to be the player we thought he could be
what i don,t understand is why it has to be at the expense of praise for theo
and there is no such thing as a consolation goal as winning the league at anfield on goal difference in 89 will attest

What?

ps re the bit in bold, out of the 28 games, how many good games did he have in your opinion? I don't mean 'not bad games' or 'did ok games', I mean how many games did he look good?

I don't mean to be overly critical of Theo, I just think that saying he is inconsistent is a fair comment and that the stats do back that up - they certainly back up him being less consistent than Ramsey!

Zëdië wrote:

Dejan wrote:starman u should go apply for a job at opta

He should replace Hansen on motd.

funny enough hanson is a bitter c*** who i believe is past his sell by date as a pundit but i agreed with him on saturday night
the fact that he dragged up a few old games were of little comfort to me.
i know any team can be caught on the break but in our last 2 games i really feel for both lewandoskis goal and the sending off
in both match circumstances we should have had someone sitting
mistakes happen but i feel at our worst we have seen too many of those situations under wengers recent tenure.
i would like to think bould and wenger will be saying the same to the players when they go through the game again
it happened to george v benfica at home but it rarely happened again
its too hard to get your nose in front in a game to give it up so cheaply

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

Spot on, exactly why relying on stats and stats alone is a really bad way of judging a player.
And for the record, I remember Ramsey was atrocious against Spurs at the start of the 2011/12 season, even though he scored.

You could argue that you can use these stats if you assume that the games where he played badly and scored/assisted and the games where he played well and didn't score or assist equal each other out.

starmandb wrote:

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:

starmandb wrote:he was good in the home game v stoke without assisting or scoring

It was you who decided to use goals and assists to determine if he had a good game. I'm sure that there will have been games where he was poor and scored/assisted (possibly even a consolation goal)!

So in 11/28 games he didn't score or assist. Fair enough, i take back my one good game in ten. Six good games in ten in a period that you chose as his best is not as good as the form Ramsey has shown since the tail end of last season.

It isn't just about the stats though. Sometimes you just have to look at performances and spirit - Ramsey just seems to be able to grab many games by the scruff of the neck in a way that Theo has only managed a handful of times.

So I stand by my statement that Rambo has shown much more consistency recently than Theo ever has.

i can do humour
i remember my lip turning in an upwards fashion at george and mildred once
i only highlighted a good game v stoke as a way of praising theo
yes you are right
theo had games where despite scoring or assisting he was not good
below par at schalke scoring
average home to fulham setting up girouds 2 goals
ave at everton scoring from a ramsey pass
below par at wigan earning arteta pen
poor at southampton scoring a deflection
av at chelsea scoring from cazorla pass
i don,t vote for player of the month but many do and in a 3 month period between oct and dec last year he was given the award 3 times.
thats not just me plucking things out the air
i really felt theo was at a crossroads at a point in the 10/11 season and that he needed to develop his game but i really do believe his inteligence in games[a thing i was concerned he did,nt have] has really improved i e his movement
and that despite a prof ilgate display at sunderland he has become much more than just an instinctive finisher
as for taking games by the scruff of the neck theos goals and assists have been responsible for 42 wins or draws
a few examples
the infamous 07/08 birmingham game where he turned round a 1 goal defecit
a game not even in the 42 liverpool away champs league his run for adebayor
everton home[another game not in the 42] where he came on 1 down won 3-1
2-2 with barca 09/10
chelsea home 3-1 10/11
west ham away 3-0
11/12 udinese home
12/13 west ham away 3-0
newcastle home 7-3
the bottom line is i am delighted that ramsey is showing himself to be the player we thought he could be
what i don,t understand is why it has to be at the expense of praise for theo
and there is no such thing as a consolation goal as winning the league at anfield on goal difference in 89 will attest

What?

ps re the bit in bold, out of the 28 games, how many good games did he have in your opinion? I don't mean 'not bad games' or 'did ok games', I mean how many games did he look good?

I don't mean to be overly critical of Theo, I just think that saying he is inconsistent is a fair comment and that the stats do back that up - they certainly back up him being less consistent than Ramsey!

southampton h good
olympiacos h good
west ham a v good
reading a [league cup] superb
spurs h v good
reading a good
newcastle h out of this world
west ham h very good
brighton a v good
liverpool h good
stoke h good

11/28

So that means than he's average, ok or rubbish for 60% of the time!!!

Thats roughly four good games in ten! I'll change my slogan for wumming Massa to four good games in ten!!!

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:11/28

So that means than he's average, ok or rubbish for 60% of the time!!!

Thats roughly four good games in ten! I'll change my slogan for wumming Massa to four good games in ten!!!

don,t forget of the 28 games
he played
1 min in montpellier
18 mins at man city
24 mins v chelsea
23 mins v qpr

Starman, stats aside,

In your opinion in terms of versatitlity and the type of play Walcott is suited to, would you refer to him as a limited player?

This is not saying how good he is or isnt at what he does, just asking whether you would consider him limited?

Would you also consider him consistent in terms of regular or consistent good performances?