West Brom 1-1 Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Dejan » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:32 pm

your post missed: 'u mad?'
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Angelito » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:32 pm

Callum wrote:"Giroud having a good game is a rarity. That's the general consensus".

- Scores for fun in pre-season
- Scores opener vs. Villa
- Scored in Turkey vs. Fenerbahce
- Scored opener vs. Fulham
- Plucked ball out of the air superbly for Podolski's goal vs. Fulham
- Scores winner vs. Spurs
- Scores opener vs. Sunderland
- Assists Ramsey vs. Sunderland
- Terrorizes Spurs all game and plays superbly
- Gives Huth and Shawcross a battle vs. Stoke and plays well
- Assists Ramsey for his goal vs. Swansea
- Great hold up play in build up for Ozil goal vs. Napoli
- Scores vs. Napoli
- Plays big part in Wilshere goal vs. West Brom

That's 11 goals he's either scored, assisted or been directly involved in. We've scored 24 this season.


You're missing the point. van Persie, Aguero, and Suarez aren't criticized because they have good games more often and people have a perception that they have few bad games, which is true.

On the other hand, one bad game for Giroud makes him prone to criticism because he doesn't have the track record, scoring record that the ones I mentioned have for a sustained period. If Giroud manages 20 goals this season, the criticism will reduce to half next season. In Football, you have to back it up with consistency.

Despite being nearly finished, Torres still is in Spain's starting 11 and seems Chelsea's #1 because of his incredible record at one stage.

Not a single player is immune to criticism. Just accept it at times and hope that Giroud silences his critics over the course of the season and not just in the starting of a season.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Inchpräctice » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:36 pm

Massa wrote:
Inchpräctice wrote:
Massa wrote:
Callum wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:But Callum that comes with the territory of being a striker, they ARE throughout football the most criticised players because they are responsible for getting goals.

He didn't have criticism in the Napoli game because he played very well, but today he wasn't awful but that doesn't change the fact that a top striker in games like this can mean the difference between a draw and nicking that winning goal and saving the day.

If we had Higuain or Suarez or whoever making such a performance there would little to no criticism - well, nothing near the amount Giroud gets. He suffers so much from not being other players we were linked with. Of course he should be criticized when he plays badly but any little mistake is jumped upon by a large section of our fans at the first opportunity. If another player made the same mistake nothing would be said.

It's also just f***ing boring being repeatdly told that Giroud isn't world class. Everyone f***ing knows it yet people like Massa feel the need to mention it nearly every game. No-one is saying Giroud is as good as Suarez/ Higuain/ van Persie or that we don't need a new striker.

Just putting across my view that we need better than Giroud which is an ongoing debate so when more evidence to support my view becomes apparent (i.e. today) I will call it out.


If him not scoring supports your view then him scoring goes against it.
In the interest of fairness then, you must post that we don't need a striker every time he scores. Ok?

At the moment he is joint 3rd top scorer in the Prem. He has scored more goals than RVP, Negredo, Oscar, Rooney, Suarez, Dzeko and Soldado and the same amount as Aguero.
So on current form he's as good as Sergio Aguero. A player that probably wouldn't draw as much criticism.


His deficiencies have been apparent since he has come here, so one goal that he scores doesn't change much, whereas another average/crap game supports my view

Aguero's abilities have been apparent since he has come here, so one bad game for him doesn't change much and hence why he wouldn't 'draw as much criticism'


You can't say that we need to go out and buy X to replace a player that is currently one of the best strikers in the league.
It's just too early to say that.
If you want to argue in January that Giroud is not clinical enough because Arsenal are lying down in 8th place and Giroud is 17th in the BPL top scorers list then you'll find many people on your side.
But currently we're top of the league and Giroud is playing better than most other strikers (some of whom cost 3 times as much as he did) so therefore it's a knee-jerk imo.
Last season was his first season and he did well to score plenty of goals whilst trying to adapt. This season he's already playing much better so why not wait until the season is at least a third of the way in before opening up that debate?

If he continues to score at his current rate of goals per game he'll end the season with somewhere between 22 - 28 goals. A total that is very likely to be higher than Negredo, Soldado, Rooney etc. so my point is let's sit back and see what happens.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Callum » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:37 pm

Angelito wrote:You're missing the point. van Persie, Aguero, and Suarez aren't criticized because they have good games more often and people have a perception that they have few bad games, which is true.

On the other hand, one bad game for Giroud makes him prone to criticism because he doesn't have the track record, scoring record that the ones I mentioned have for a sustained period. If Giroud manages 20 goals this season, the criticism will reduce to half next season. In Football, you have to back it up with consistency.

Despite being nearly finished, Torres still is in Spain's starting 11 and seems Chelsea's #1 because of his incredible record at one stage.

Not a single player is immune to criticism. Just accept it at times and hope that Giroud silences his critics over the course of the season and not just in the starting of a season.

No, I'm not missing the point - you made the point that Giroud having a good game is a rarity, which is nonsense given his form this season. I have criticized Giroud myself but I will defend him when I feel that he is being unfairly victimized by a portion of the fans who, in my mind, appear to have made their minds up at Giroud and will always seek the bad points in his performances than the good ones.

I'm tired of talking about it now but I will say that we need a new striker and that I would like someone better than Giroud. That said, he has been superb this season and I believe he will only get better.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Inchpräctice » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:41 pm

Callum wrote:"Giroud having a good game is a rarity. That's the general consensus".

- Scores for fun in pre-season
- Scores opener vs. Villa
- Scored in Turkey vs. Fenerbahce
- Scored opener vs. Fulham
- Plucked ball out of the air superbly for Podolski's goal vs. Fulham
- Scores winner vs. Spurs
- Scores opener vs. Sunderland
- Assists Ramsey vs. Sunderland
- Terrorizes Spurs all game and plays superbly
- Gives Huth and Shawcross a battle vs. Stoke and plays well
- Assists Ramsey for his goal vs. Swansea
- Great hold up play in build up for Ozil goal vs. Napoli
- Scores vs. Napoli
- Plays big part in Wilshere goal vs. West Brom

That's 11 goals he's either scored, assisted or been directly involved in. We've scored 24 this season.


Totally.
Some people only see what they want to see.
He's having a superb season but apparently he's shit because he's not Higuain. People should vent their transfer window anger at the manager, not the player who's probably one of our stand-out performers this season.

Callum wrote:I didn't want to have to do this but you people made me.


Hmmm... not sure if that supports your argument or contradicts it.....? :think:
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Schlandi » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:42 pm

Inchpräctice wrote:At the moment he is joint 3rd top scorer in the Prem. He has scored more goals than RVP, Negredo, Oscar, Rooney, Suarez, Dzeko and Soldado and the same amount as Aguero.
So on current form he's as good as Sergio Aguero. A player that probably wouldn't draw as much criticism.


If you look into the details of the goal scoring stats he isn't ahead of most of the strikers you listed.

Top PL Strikers after seven matches ordered in Goals per minutes (played at least two games (180min) so far)
Podolski 40,5 Mpg (not really fair he didn't played at least 180min so far. Scored two goals in 81min)
Suarez 60 Mpg
Lukaku 64,5 Mpg
Remy 65,8 Mpg
Benteke 96,75 MpG
Aguero 104,25 Mpg
Sturridge 104,5 Mpg
Negredo 141 Mpg
Dzeko 146 Mpg
Gnarby 149 Mpg (like Pod didn't play 180min + played as a winger but I wanted to list all Gunners with stats below 200 Mpg
Ramsey 149,75 Mpg :sneaky2:
Giroud 151,5 Mpg
RVP 155 Mpg
Toure 157,5 Mpg
Rooney 159 Mpg (isn't a real striker from my point of view)
Welbeck 180,5 Mpg
Oscar 231,5 Mpg (Striker ? )
Soldado 254 Mpg (don't forget it's his first PL season)

Hope you enjoy ! :Peace:

Edit:
Swap of Gnarby and Ramsey
Last edited by Schlandi on Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Their goalkeerper had the game of his life
- We should have had 10+ penalties .. shit ref
- If long term injured player xyz would have been available we would have won easily
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Pudpop » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:44 pm

By my count Giroud had his first bad touch after 34 minutes today. He then went on to create our goal. He was probably the most positive of our attacking players bar maybe Ozil. If after Napoli and today you're not satisfied with his performances then there's no pleasing you.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Massa » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:46 pm

Inchpräctice wrote:
Massa wrote:
Inchpräctice wrote:
Massa wrote:
Callum wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:But Callum that comes with the territory of being a striker, they ARE throughout football the most criticised players because they are responsible for getting goals.

He didn't have criticism in the Napoli game because he played very well, but today he wasn't awful but that doesn't change the fact that a top striker in games like this can mean the difference between a draw and nicking that winning goal and saving the day.

If we had Higuain or Suarez or whoever making such a performance there would little to no criticism - well, nothing near the amount Giroud gets. He suffers so much from not being other players we were linked with. Of course he should be criticized when he plays badly but any little mistake is jumped upon by a large section of our fans at the first opportunity. If another player made the same mistake nothing would be said.

It's also just f***ing boring being repeatdly told that Giroud isn't world class. Everyone f***ing knows it yet people like Massa feel the need to mention it nearly every game. No-one is saying Giroud is as good as Suarez/ Higuain/ van Persie or that we don't need a new striker.

Just putting across my view that we need better than Giroud which is an ongoing debate so when more evidence to support my view becomes apparent (i.e. today) I will call it out.


If him not scoring supports your view then him scoring goes against it.
In the interest of fairness then, you must post that we don't need a striker every time he scores. Ok?

At the moment he is joint 3rd top scorer in the Prem. He has scored more goals than RVP, Negredo, Oscar, Rooney, Suarez, Dzeko and Soldado and the same amount as Aguero.
So on current form he's as good as Sergio Aguero. A player that probably wouldn't draw as much criticism.


His deficiencies have been apparent since he has come here, so one goal that he scores doesn't change much, whereas another average/crap game supports my view

Aguero's abilities have been apparent since he has come here, so one bad game for him doesn't change much and hence why he wouldn't 'draw as much criticism'


You can't say that we need to go out and buy X to replace a player that is currently one of the best strikers in the league.
It's just too early to say that.
If you want to argue in January that Giroud is not clinical enough because Arsenal are lying down in 8th place and Giroud is 17th in the BPL top scorers list then you'll find many people on your side.
But currently we're top of the league and Giroud is playing better than most other strikers (some of whom cost 3 times as much as he did) so therefore it's a knee-jerk imo.
Last season was his first season and he did well to score plenty of goals whilst trying to adapt. This season he's already playing much better so why not wait until the season is at least a third of the way in before opening up that debate?

If he continues to score at his current rate of goals per game he'll end the season with somewhere between 22 - 28 goals. A total that is very likely to be higher than Negredo, Soldado, Rooney etc. so my point is let's sit back and see what happens.

I am arguing that Giroud is not good enough, he has scored a decent amount (could be more). His limitations last season are apparent this season, hence why I don't believe I need to wait until the end of the season to make a judgement on a player I've seen plenty of.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Mike Dean » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:50 pm

Why does Wilshere have such a problem holding onto the ball? I gave up counting after his 5th giveaway in the 1st half alone.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Angelito » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:52 pm

@ Callum

The "rarity" post was in comparison to the ones I mentioned.

Regardless, as I said earlier, let him do it consistently. Nobody would be on his back if he can sustain it.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Callum » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:53 pm

Angelito wrote:@ Callum

The "rarity" post was in comparison to the ones I mentioned.

Regardless, as I said earlier, let him do it consistently. Nobody would be on his back if he can sustain it.

Eh, whatever. I don't want to talk about it anymore.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Inchpräctice » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:55 pm

Massa wrote:
Inchpräctice wrote:
Massa wrote:
Inchpräctice wrote:
Massa wrote:
Callum wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:But Callum that comes with the territory of being a striker, they ARE throughout football the most criticised players because they are responsible for getting goals.

He didn't have criticism in the Napoli game because he played very well, but today he wasn't awful but that doesn't change the fact that a top striker in games like this can mean the difference between a draw and nicking that winning goal and saving the day.

If we had Higuain or Suarez or whoever making such a performance there would little to no criticism - well, nothing near the amount Giroud gets. He suffers so much from not being other players we were linked with. Of course he should be criticized when he plays badly but any little mistake is jumped upon by a large section of our fans at the first opportunity. If another player made the same mistake nothing would be said.

It's also just f***ing boring being repeatdly told that Giroud isn't world class. Everyone f***ing knows it yet people like Massa feel the need to mention it nearly every game. No-one is saying Giroud is as good as Suarez/ Higuain/ van Persie or that we don't need a new striker.

Just putting across my view that we need better than Giroud which is an ongoing debate so when more evidence to support my view becomes apparent (i.e. today) I will call it out.


If him not scoring supports your view then him scoring goes against it.
In the interest of fairness then, you must post that we don't need a striker every time he scores. Ok?

At the moment he is joint 3rd top scorer in the Prem. He has scored more goals than RVP, Negredo, Oscar, Rooney, Suarez, Dzeko and Soldado and the same amount as Aguero.
So on current form he's as good as Sergio Aguero. A player that probably wouldn't draw as much criticism.


His deficiencies have been apparent since he has come here, so one goal that he scores doesn't change much, whereas another average/crap game supports my view

Aguero's abilities have been apparent since he has come here, so one bad game for him doesn't change much and hence why he wouldn't 'draw as much criticism'


You can't say that we need to go out and buy X to replace a player that is currently one of the best strikers in the league.
It's just too early to say that.
If you want to argue in January that Giroud is not clinical enough because Arsenal are lying down in 8th place and Giroud is 17th in the BPL top scorers list then you'll find many people on your side.
But currently we're top of the league and Giroud is playing better than most other strikers (some of whom cost 3 times as much as he did) so therefore it's a knee-jerk imo.
Last season was his first season and he did well to score plenty of goals whilst trying to adapt. This season he's already playing much better so why not wait until the season is at least a third of the way in before opening up that debate?

If he continues to score at his current rate of goals per game he'll end the season with somewhere between 22 - 28 goals. A total that is very likely to be higher than Negredo, Soldado, Rooney etc. so my point is let's sit back and see what happens.

I am arguing that Giroud is not good enough, he has scored a decent amount (could be more). His limitations last season are apparent this season, hence why I don't believe I need to wait until the end of the season to make a judgement on a player I've seen plenty of.


But my point is he's a different player this season. He's clearly playing with twice the confidence.
It's fairer to wipe the slate clean after last season because that was his first for the club and his first in the Prem.
All those attacking players that City bought, Chel$ki bought, Hotspunk bought, none of them will hit proper form until their second season.
Furthermore most of them will probably not score as many goals in their first ever season than Giroud did.


SchlandGooner wrote:
Inchpräctice wrote:At the moment he is joint 3rd top scorer in the Prem. He has scored more goals than RVP, Negredo, Oscar, Rooney, Suarez, Dzeko and Soldado and the same amount as Aguero.
So on current form he's as good as Sergio Aguero. A player that probably wouldn't draw as much criticism.


If you look into the details of the goal scoring stats he isn't ahead of most of the strikers you listed.

Top PL Strikers after seven matches ordered in Goals per minutes (played at least two games (180min) so far)
Podolski 40,5 Mpg (not really fair he didn't played at least 180min so far. Scored two goals in 81min)
Suarez 60 Mpg
Lukaku 64,5 Mpg
Remy 65,8 Mpg
Benteke 96,75 MpG
Aguero 104,25 Mpg
Sturridge 104,5 Mpg
Negredo 141 Mpg
Dzeko 146 Mpg
Gnarby 149 Mpg (like Pod didn't play 180min + played as a winger but I wanted to list all Gunners with stats below 200 Mpg
Ramsey 149,75 Mpg :sneaky2:
Giroud 151,5 Mpg
RVP 155 Mpg
Toure 157,5 Mpg
Rooney 159 Mpg (isn't a real striker from my point of view)
Welbeck 180,5 Mpg
Oscar 231,5 Mpg (Striker ? )
Soldado 254 Mpg (don't forget it's his first PL season)

Hope you enjoy ! :Peace:

Edit:
Swap of Gnarby and Ramsey


So of the 7 strikers I named I was still right about four of them. :doh:
As far as I'm concerned my point still stands.
Despite your stats, have players like Negredo and Dzeko contributed as much to the overall position of their team in the league as Giroud has? What are their assists/key passes stats?
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby Shut up » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:00 pm

I like Giroud but I think we need an alternate. Someone who can change a game in a split second. Giroud can't do that imo.
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby starmandb » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:10 pm

Angelito wrote:
starmandb wrote:
lexalove wrote:This is a real test for us now...
A top team challenging for the title but not playing well should be able to find a way to win a game like this.

last season
norwich 1 man utd 0
west ham 2 man utd 2


But they beat City at the Etihad, no? If you drop points against these type of opponents, you need to beat your challengers. We just need to beat City and Chelsea now. If we can manage 4 points against Chelsea, we'd be in a pretty good position.

we can,t win games we have,nt played yet
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Re: West Brom vs Arsenal | Premier League 06/10/13

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:11 pm

Considering the circumstances, Giroud has done well. It needs to be said.

I'm just happy that Podolski and Walcott will be back soon. I like Giroud but lets face it we need other options in the ST position and Bendtner is certainly not it.
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