Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:34 pm

Just listened to wenger's post match interview where he 'gave credit' to his players, moaned about not getting a penalty and described the defeat as unlucky!

:angry: :banghead:
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:36 pm

Plymouth Gooner wrote:Just listened to wenger's post match interview where he 'gave credit' to his players, moaned about not getting a penalty and described the defeat as unlucky!

:angry: :banghead:


Did you expect anything else from Mr Monologue ?
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby starmandb » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:49 pm

GunnGunn wrote:
ThereIsBearCum wrote:
Arsenal~Fanatic wrote:I hope and pray :pray: we win today cos the dressing room would be shot if we crash out of 2 competitions within a week's time.


enter the starman:
in 03/04 we went out of the FA Cup and the Champions league within a week
I don't think you need reminding how we did in the league that season


So we are suddenly going to go 49 unbeaten are we? :scratch:

If we go out today, we may as well forfeit the rest of the season and start preparing for next season without Van Persie.

This time, when our capitulation strikes, we will not be sitting 3rd, a few points off second, and clear of 5th, we will be sitting 4th, level on points with Chelsea and 6 points between us and 8th...

we did,nt then only another 17
after our 2-0 home defeat to aston villa and our 3-0 defeat at man city in the space of a week we went 21 games unbeaten in 08/09.
at 1 stage we were 5pts behind villa who had a game in hand with 11 games to go.
we accrued enough points in that 2nd half of the season to always qualify for the champions league.
but it was villa that blew it rather than us earning it?
people can,t have it both ways blaming villa,s implosion rather than our strong finish to the season.
we earned it.
thats why i don,t believe this year on year getting worse thing
we were better in 09/10 than we were in 08/09
and we were the best in 07/08 that we have been since 04/05.
although overal a fit rvp was our best player of the 08/09 season.arshavin was our best player in the 2nd half of the season.
what has,nt changed is that we have lost pivotal games thru shoddy defending and thats why i believe that what we do on the training ground has cost us more than our failure to spend.
speculate to accumulate is a fine mantra.but setting a team up to be the best they can be is a better 1.
thats why i believe the fault lies at wengers door
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Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:01 pm

Wenger is at fault, he has always been at fault.

A better manager would've gotten more out if these players if a better tactical approach was implemented.

He abandoned his own policies and took up those of other clubs we can't match.

Look at Real Madrid, thats what happens when you mix flair, muscle and a master tactician, thats what we used to have.

How AW has lost it so much ill never know.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Reverend Gooner » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:08 pm

PLAYER RATINGS UP
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Bristol_Gunner » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:32 pm

GunnGunn wrote:Wenger is at fault, he has always been at fault.

A better manager would've gotten more out if these players if a better tactical approach was implemented.

He abandoned his own policies and took up those of other clubs we can't match.

Look at Real Madrid, thats what happens when you mix flair, muscle and a master tactician, thats what we used to have.

How AW has lost it so much ill never know.


Yeah I have to say I would love to see Wenger giving out team talks. They must be the worst team talks because he never seems to motivate the team.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby starmandb » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 pm

TheLittleMozart wrote:
Plymouth Gooner wrote:
TheLittleMozart wrote:Shez still manages to get beat from silly angles


Fabianski was in goal!


I didn't say 'just the sunderland game'.....I said 'Ive noticed these things RECENTLY'.

Meaning our past 6 games or so, for which Shez has been in goal for them all barr on. Keep up fella. ;)

fabianski was in goal for the villa game as well
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Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Arsenal Tone » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:32 am

Bristol_Gunner wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:Wenger is at fault, he has always been at fault.

A better manager would've gotten more out if these players if a better tactical approach was implemented.

He abandoned his own policies and took up those of other clubs we can't match.

Look at Real Madrid, thats what happens when you mix flair, muscle and a master tactician, thats what we used to have.

How AW has lost it so much ill never know.


Yeah I have to say I would love to see Wenger giving out team talks. They must be the worst team talks because he never seems to motivate the team.


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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Inchpräctice » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:58 am

Bristol_Gunner wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:Wenger is at fault, he has always been at fault.

A better manager would've gotten more out if these players if a better tactical approach was implemented.

He abandoned his own policies and took up those of other clubs we can't match.

Look at Real Madrid, thats what happens when you mix flair, muscle and a master tactician, thats what we used to have.

How AW has lost it so much ill never know.


Yeah I have to say I would love to see Wenger giving out team talks. They must be the worst team talks because he never seems to motivate the team.


Eh?
There was no lack of motivation on the pitch, the players gave everything, especially Arteta.
When you consider that they'd just been spanked in Italy a few days earlier they put in a very respectable shift. I was expecting them to look far more tired than they did.
We didn't lose that game through lack of effort, we lost it for the same reason we lost in Milan and that was because we only ever passed sideways. Without Cesc and Jack we have no through ball, no penetration, and in losing Na$ri we've lost another player who was prepared to run at defenders and risk dribbling.

We currently have Theo, Ox and Gervinho who are supposed to do that but they failed due to Sunderland's excellent defending.
Every time any of those players got the ball they instantly had 3 men on them. Sunderland set themselves up to pretty much park the bus and catch us on the counter which as we all know works a treat against us. It also helps if you are denied two penalties and you put the ball in your own net.
We're not lacking in effort, we're lacking in creativity up front and organisation at the back. We're also overstocked in the Djourou department to the tune of one.
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Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby GunnGunn » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:08 am

Squillaci was worse than Djourou and thats saying something because he was dire.

And bollocks about Fabregas and Wilshere, you make it sound as if we used to break down teams for fun when they parked the bus, we have struggled against park the bus itus for the last 5 years.

Even when Fabregas was in peak form we struggled, and he struggled to break teams like Sunderland down.

We wern't denied two penalties either, O'Shea got the ball before he took Van Persie down and he was pulled down in the box, yes, they do get given but neither were stonewallers by any stretch.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Inchpräctice » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:28 am

GunnGunn wrote:Squillaci was worse than Djourou and thats saying something because he was dire.

And bollocks about Fabregas and Wilshere, you make it sound as if we used to break down teams for fun when they parked the bus, we have struggled against park the bus itus for the last 5 years.

Even when Fabregas was in peak form we struggled, and he struggled to break teams like Sunderland down.

We wern't denied two penalties either, O'Shea got the ball before he took Van Persie down and he was pulled down in the box, yes, they do get given but neither were stonewallers by any stretch.


Are you saying that we're still as good in the final third as we were when Cesc and Nasri were here?
Can't see any difference at all....?
I've never seen so much sideways passing in my life as I have these last four games, we're a team of Denilsons.
Yes we've never been brilliant against teams who park the bus but plenty of times we broke them down eventually, even if it was just running into the box and getting fouled.

I didn't say those pens were irrefutable stonewallers but on another day any ref would've given at LEAST one of them if not both.
When RVP was dragged down for the second one it was so blatant you could see it from space. Ref probably didn't give it because he was looking somewhere else.
And with the first one, getting a very slight scuff of the ball whilst completely flattening the striker is given as a pen 85 times out of 100. It's not as if the ball completely and obviously changed direction.

Like I said though, if Djourou hadn't given away a needless free kick in the exact same style that he conceded the penalty in Milan then we might have scraped a draw and a replay, who knows.
So yes we were poor and we lacked creativity but we were also unlucky with the ref as well, not to mention the injuries.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Zedie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:04 pm

Inchpractice wrote:
Bristol_Gunner wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:Wenger is at fault, he has always been at fault.

A better manager would've gotten more out if these players if a better tactical approach was implemented.

He abandoned his own policies and took up those of other clubs we can't match.

Look at Real Madrid, thats what happens when you mix flair, muscle and a master tactician, thats what we used to have.

How AW has lost it so much ill never know.


Yeah I have to say I would love to see Wenger giving out team talks. They must be the worst team talks because he never seems to motivate the team.


Eh?
There was no lack of motivation on the pitch, the players gave everything, especially Arteta.
When you consider that they'd just been spanked in Italy a few days earlier they put in a very respectable shift. I was expecting them to look far more tired than they did.
We didn't lose that game through lack of effort, we lost it for the same reason we lost in Milan and that was because we only ever passed sideways. Without Cesc and Jack we have no through ball, no penetration, and in losing Na$ri we've lost another player who was prepared to run at defenders and risk dribbling.

We currently have Theo, Ox and Gervinho who are supposed to do that but they failed due to Sunderland's excellent defending.
Every time any of those players got the ball they instantly had 3 men on them. Sunderland set themselves up to pretty much park the bus and catch us on the counter which as we all know works a treat against us. It also helps if you are denied two penalties and you put the ball in your own net.
We're not lacking in effort, we're lacking in creativity up front and organisation at the back. We're also overstocked in the Djourou department to the tune of one.



On the money. Our problem basically stems from the fact that we havent got an AM that can play an early ball or thread through a proper pass. Been saying this all season and if i die tomorrow, i want it inscribed on my tomb stone.

If this isnt proof at how much we miss Cesc, i dont know what is.

The managements inability to replace our star players when theyve been sold for mega bucks has put us in this position and its only going to get worse if we drop out of 4th.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:13 pm

Zedie wrote:
Inchpractice wrote:
Bristol_Gunner wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:Wenger is at fault, he has always been at fault.

A better manager would've gotten more out if these players if a better tactical approach was implemented.

He abandoned his own policies and took up those of other clubs we can't match.

Look at Real Madrid, thats what happens when you mix flair, muscle and a master tactician, thats what we used to have.

How AW has lost it so much ill never know.


Yeah I have to say I would love to see Wenger giving out team talks. They must be the worst team talks because he never seems to motivate the team.


Eh?
There was no lack of motivation on the pitch, the players gave everything, especially Arteta.
When you consider that they'd just been spanked in Italy a few days earlier they put in a very respectable shift. I was expecting them to look far more tired than they did.
We didn't lose that game through lack of effort, we lost it for the same reason we lost in Milan and that was because we only ever passed sideways. Without Cesc and Jack we have no through ball, no penetration, and in losing Na$ri we've lost another player who was prepared to run at defenders and risk dribbling.

We currently have Theo, Ox and Gervinho who are supposed to do that but they failed due to Sunderland's excellent defending.
Every time any of those players got the ball they instantly had 3 men on them. Sunderland set themselves up to pretty much park the bus and catch us on the counter which as we all know works a treat against us. It also helps if you are denied two penalties and you put the ball in your own net.
We're not lacking in effort, we're lacking in creativity up front and organisation at the back. We're also overstocked in the Djourou department to the tune of one.



On the money. Our problem basically stems from the fact that we havent got an AM that can play an early ball or thread through a proper pass. Been saying this all season and if i die tomorrow, i want it inscribed on my tomb stone.

If this isnt proof at how much we miss Cesc, i dont know what is.

The managements inability to replace our star players when theyve been sold for mega bucks has put us in this position and its only going to get worse if we drop out of 4th.


Same here Zedie, have lost my voice screaming that a top quality advanced play-maker is what we need. We hit a wall the moment we reach the final third and completely loose momentum. The way we are set-up and play we cannot do without a proper top quality play-maker cos we do not utilize the full width of the pitch making it too narrow. Its like we are missing a hinge between the striker and the midfield . Everything looks far too slow and disjointed.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby Zedie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:19 pm

GunnGunn wrote:Squillaci was worse than Djourou and thats saying something because he was dire.

And bollocks about Fabregas and Wilshere, you make it sound as if we used to break down teams for fun when they parked the bus, we have struggled against park the bus itus for the last 5 years.

Even when Fabregas was in peak form we struggled, and he struggled to break teams like Sunderland down.
We wern't denied two penalties either, O'Shea got the ball before he took Van Persie down and he was pulled down in the box, yes, they do get given but neither were stonewallers by any stretch.


Sorry GG, i cant agree with that. We struggled to break down teams but managed to create opportunities, only we didnt have finishers that would take their one clean chance if they got it. Yes we were shut out for 0-0s, but we still created the chances to take. Name one clear cut opportunity we had that was down to a pass from midfield on Saturday.

You probably cant because there werent any. If we still had Cesc or a player in his mould, we would have someone to feed RvP properly. At the moment, we have to feed play down the flanks. You cut off the supply to flanks or sit deep enough to stop them getting behind, you nullify our threat and everyone knows this.

Invincible team - No one knew where the goals were coming from, left or right, threaded or blasted, lob or rocket, volley or header. They just came with a scary frequency.

Nowadays? We score from cut backs down the wing or RvPs brilliance, thats it. You man mark RvP tight with 2 players and sit deep to stop our wingers getting behind the defense and youve stopped us from scoring period. It makes it even easier for teams when refs allow physical handling of RvP because without him we are impotent.

If we had an AM who could mix up and vary our play, youd add an air of unpradictability to our game which means teams would have to change up.

We have no threat whatsoever coming through the middle and thats exactly whats hurting us, predictability.
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Re: Sunderland Vs Arsenal | FA Cup R4

Postby CynicalGooner » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:20 pm

We were pants in the final third last season too. Just as bad as we are now, after the league cup collapse. Nasri did nothing at all after that and Cesc struggled massively when he was actually fit. In fact before the current capitulation, a couple months ago, we were getting points we would never have got last season. For a fleeting moment it looked as if the mentality had finally shifted. It hadn't, obviously
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