Salary Cap/Wage Cap

[StLGooner]

Well thats the whole point, yes. It would make it a fair playing field. You're just afraid it would effect Arsenal and you wouldn't want to see them go down. Of course nobody wants to see them go down or finish in the bottom half. But still, it would make it fair, do you not want to play fairly? Is that all you love football for, is for the winning? The way it stands now, if football keeps going on like it is, Arsenal will be in trouble. We don't have oil tycoons as owners, we earned our way to the top like it should be done, not have some gazillionaire come and make us who we are. Aren't you proud of that? And I'm sure the English folks in here would appreciate that, and so should all Arsenal fans.

Well, when you're 50 and sitting in your living room on a Saturday morning and can't watch Arsenal play because they're in the 1st division don't come crying to me.

No, it's not all about the winning. I like watching Arsenal play beautiful football with class players. You'd never see that again at this same level anywhere in the world if there were a salary cap. As much as I dislike Man U, Barca, Madrid and Milan... I can't deny the fact that they are entertaining to watch. You put in a salary cap and they have to scrap half their talent the quality will drop.

I would miss that. I would miss that very much.

Besides, you say you like the fact that we've achieved w/o spending big... Wouldn't you like it even more if we won while everybody else outspent us?

I really really don't like the idea because it will disperse the talent and you won't have teams that equal the quality of the big boys ever again and that's what I like to watch.

You would still see entertaining football, take the NFL for instance, its more entertaining than ever and is flourishing more than ever, talent wise and financially. With the way players are today, there is more talent than ever before. You would still have teams that are more succesful than others, because those are going to be the ones that know how to run a proper football team. Example: New England Patriots, they've been good for years. Maybe not 50 years, but for the past 8-9.

[Yorkyblue]

It wouldn't work because it would have to go accross world football, or the English teams would be going backwards in European comps.

[StLGooner]

It wouldn't work because it would have to go accross world football, or the English teams would be going backwards in European comps.

I already mentioned that. I said it couldn't just be in England it would have to be at least across Europe.

[singaporegooner]

Allow me to input alittle on this...
the local league here in Singapore has a salary cap on individual player's wages...
There used to be 2 big teams in the league, because all the good players went there for some reasons...and the club paid them good money because they managed to secure strong financial support...
the rest of the clubs fed of scraps and inadvertantly, the title was always between these 2 clubs...
a few years later, the league went through a reshuffle and viola, a new league champion emerged and the previous top 2 weren't in sight...
and a few more years later...the top 2 teams were back after reshuffling their respective club structure and stuff...
from what i see, a few things happened...
clubs balanced up their ledgers with reasonable market-rate type of wages, which means smaller clubs can afford to get players who can help improve their standards...
clubs became profitable and self-sufficient without having to depend in sponsors pumping in money to balance out..
players with passion for the club and the game willingly took a cut and stayed with the respective clubs they loved...

i'm not advocating a yes or a no, i'm just saying this helps smaller clubs gain a better foothold in the game and improve their standards...and more importantly, prevent financial meltdowns which WILL happen when the sugar-daddies decide they have enough fun with the club and sell it to someone else

[Yorkyblue]

What they should do is put players wages on the back of the chairman. So if he fucks off, he takes the wage bill with him.

[Leody]

You would still see entertaining football, take the NFL for instance, its more entertaining than ever and is flourishing more than ever, talent wise and financially. With the way players are today, there is more talent than ever before. You would still have teams that are more succesful than others, because those are going to be the ones that know how to run a proper football team. Example: New England Patriots, they've been good for years. Maybe not 50 years, but for the past 8-9.

While you may still have successful teams, you will never have a concentration of talent at clubs as you do today. Never. The big four all have (or could have if they wanted) world-class talent at every position. You may find the product entertaining still, but it will not be at the same quality that it is today, it just won't happen. Most of the players at the big clubs today would demand high salaries and would eat up all the cap room for the clubs they play for, therefore they would not be on the same teams... Just like the Yankees would be broken up if there were ever a REAL salary cap in baseball.

The New England Patriots are the PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. They went from 5-11 and last in their division in 2000 to making a consistent run the last 8 years. In the prior ten years they were up and down year in and year out like 90% of the other teams in salary capped leagues. You may like that, I don't. Quite frankly, I like having leagues with different wage structures to diversify the product offerings in the sporting world. If every league were capped and all had parity like that I just wouldn't like that at all.

Don't you get frustrated with American sports because of all the players being moved and shuffled because of salary cap restrictions? You think players have no loyalty now in soccer, it would be twice as bed with a salary cap because the clubs would be getting rid of players with high salaries. I hate the rebuilding cycles you get in American sports.

[StLGooner]

You would still see entertaining football, take the NFL for instance, its more entertaining than ever and is flourishing more than ever, talent wise and financially. With the way players are today, there is more talent than ever before. You would still have teams that are more succesful than others, because those are going to be the ones that know how to run a proper football team. Example: New England Patriots, they've been good for years. Maybe not 50 years, but for the past 8-9.

While you may still have successful teams, you will never have a concentration of talent at clubs as you do today. Never. The big four all have (or could have if they wanted) world-class talent at every position. You may find the product entertaining still, but it will not be at the same quality that it is today, it just won't happen. Most of the players at the big clubs today would demand high salaries and would eat up all the cap room for the clubs they play for, therefore they would not be on the same teams... Just like the Yankees would be broken up if there were ever a REAL salary cap in baseball.

The New England Patriots are the PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. They went from 5-11 and last in their division in 2000 to making a consistent run the last 8 years. In the prior ten years they were up and down year in and year out like 90% of the other teams in salary capped leagues. You may like that, I don't. Quite frankly, I like having leagues with different wage structures to diversify the product offerings in the sporting world. If every league were capped and all had parity like that I just wouldn't like that at all.

Don't you get frustrated with American sports because of all the players being moved and shuffled because of salary cap restrictions? You think players have no loyalty now in soccer, it would be twice as bed with a salary cap because the clubs would be getting rid of players with high salaries. I hate the rebuilding cycles you get in American sports.

See I just don't see it the way you do. The MLB moves players around more than the NFL. Thats quite easy to see. So no, you're wrong there would actually be less movement, cause players would want to stay at their clubs knowing they can get the salary they want instead of testing the market and possibly not getting as much.

So let me get this straight. You think that knowing only 4 teams have a shot at winning a championship out of 20 is more exciting than potentially all 20 teams having a shot at winning? Come on Leody be honest, you know thats not more exciting.

And you still get rebuilding in European football too, isn't that what Arsenal is supposed to be going thru?

Anyway, I get it. You don't like it and thats fine. Its not going to happen anyway. Agree to disagree I guess.

[Leody]

There's nothing that says somebody outside the big 4 can't win. Sure it may not be very likely, but it's possible.

Arsenal "rebuilding" isn't like the rebuilding that I had suffer with the Cleveland Indians in the late 80s early 90s. That's rebuilding. Arsenal "rebuilding" still means they can challenge for the title. Indians rebuilding is losing over 100 games several times and being lucky to not be the worst team in baseball.

The one thing that soccer has going for it over every other sport is the number of competitions, which give the smaller clubs a chance to win something. Look at the FA Cup last season. Only one PL side in the semi-finals and it was Portsmouth.

You don't have to agree with me, but I am 100% convinced that if there were to be a salary cap implemented next season then Arsenal would be relegated in our lifetimes. I don't want to see that.

I also don't understand what makes you think the players in the NBA and NFL don't move around as much... they're shuffled like crazy. Especially the NBA.

Either way, probably never going to happen... and I'm glad.

[StLGooner]

Of course the players would move around still, but the players in the NBA and NFL don't move around as much as the players in the MLB and in European football. Thats not even the point though. I think you're clutching for staws here cause you really don't have a convincing arguement.

And your whole arguement to this is pretty much that you don't want to see Arsenal go down. No shit!! What Arsenal fan would, but you have no supporting evidence to show why they would, you just say your convinced.

[Fordy]

I dont want it to happen becuase the clubs wil just get rich and i dont see that as fair.

If the big clubs get rich then why shouldn't the big players get a slice of it.

The only way this would ever happen would be a wage cap based on how much a team makes so they are not spending more than they earn.

But all that would happen then is the billion airs would just buy 10,00,000,000 shirts every year then they would be able to have the bigger wages.

You say you are proud of the way arsenal is run and don't want it to change which is fine but dont moan about other clubs that are willing to pay stupid money on players.

[StLGooner]

I dont want it to happen becuase the clubs wil just get rich and i dont see that as fair.

If the big clubs get rich then why shouldn't the big players get a slice of it.

The only way this would ever happen would be a wage cap based on how much a team makes so they are not spending more than they earn.

But all that would happen then is the billion airs would just buy 10,00,000,000 shirts every year then they would be able to have the bigger wages.

You say you are proud of the way arsenal is run and don't want it to change which is fine but dont moan about other clubs that are willing to pay stupid money on players.

So you don't think the players would be rich. You're joking right? Have you ever seen how some of the NFL players live? Come on, there is no arguement there.

And yes I am proud of how Arsenal is ran, so why wouldn't I think that every club should be run like that? I'm not moaning about other clubs, I'm just thinking of a way to help the game. Its not as if I think this is a full proof way of running football, its just an idea so that it doesn't get over run with foreign investment (which by the way I know you don't agree with) who's owners don't care about the game but only about the money.

Look like I've already said, I'm not expert on it, but I've seen the good that it can do, but its still up for grabs on whether it would work or not. You can't just say it wouldn't cause you think the owners would get rich. They're already rich, there is more to it than just the owners making money and not the players, it doesnt work like that. I think you're just hung up thinking the players would make less, and they wouldn't.

[Leody]

Of course the players would move around still, but the players in the NBA and NFL don't move around as much as the players in the MLB and in European football. Thats not even the point though. I think you're clutching for staws here cause you really don't have a convincing arguement.

And your whole arguement to this is pretty much that you don't want to see Arsenal go down. No shit!! What Arsenal fan would, but you have no supporting evidence to show why they would, you just say your convinced.

Name one single team in the NFL or NBA that hasn't finished in the bottom 15% of the league in the past 50 years. There isn't a single team. If you can find one, I'll eat my hat. That's not enough evidence? Every team in the NFL and NBA would have been relegated at some point. With every team on a level playing field it could take decades just to get back up.

Of course I can't have any evidence to predict the future. But based off past results I'd really much rather not take the chance.

If you want to question the strength of my argument you should look at yours as well. What have you even given as support for yours? Not a thing. You say players move less, I disagree. Neither of us have given any support other than our opinions, so don't say I'm grasping at straws when you are as well.


Here's a link to the Cleveland Browns player transactions page for the past 12 months...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrown ... s?team=CLE

Yeah... salary caps keep players from moving around. If you just count the players they've acquired and nothing else... it's only 25 players. In one year...

Yep, salary cap keeps players from moving...

The Patriots... signed or traded for 32 players since February. Arguably the best team ever last year and they had that many transactions...

I can't say that these moves are because of the salary cap, but you can't say that they aren't either. I can however say that there is no evidence that salary caps lessen player movement. If you want a cap for a level playing field, then fine... but don't tell me it will lessen player movement, because there is no reason to believe it will.

On a side note: We're in a very envious position being Arsenal, why in the world would we want to give that up by supporting a salary cap?

[StLGooner]

Ok we're just going in circles here then. There is no guarantee that I would be giving up anything, you sound like a f***ing broken record for christ sakes.................. I get it, you don't want to see Arsenal be in a bad position, but thats your only arguement. Ok so maybe we both don't have any evidence to support anything. But there is evidence that it works, maybe not in European football yet, but it does work in professional sports. And you can't deny the fact that the NFL has taken over baseball for the most popular sport in the US. That has been documented, while also the NBA is thriving as well. So don't tell me that it wouldn't work when you have no proof that it would. I just suggested it and say why it might, don't tell me that it won't if you have no proof.

[Leody]

Ok we're just going in circles here then. There is no guarantee that I would be giving up anything, you sound like a f***ing broken record for christ sakes..................

We absolutely would be giving up a MASSIVE advantage with a salary cap. If the cap were set at a level that every team could reach we would no longer have a financial advantage over, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Fulham, Bolton, Hull City, West Brom, Cardiff, Doncaster... etc... I'll guarantee you that.

I get it, you don't want to see Arsenal be in a bad position, but thats your only arguement. Ok so maybe we both don't have any evidence to support anything. But there is evidence that it works, maybe not in European football yet, but it does work in professional sports. And you can't deny the fact that the NFL has taken over baseball for the most popular sport in the US. That has been documented, while also the NBA is thriving as well. So don't tell me that it wouldn't work when you have no proof that it would. I just suggested it and say why it might, don't tell me that it won't if you have no proof.

Work for what? I don't think FIFA has to worry about improving the popularity of football.

Do you want a level playing field? Yeah it would work for that too I agree.

Do you want less player movement? If so, I think you're looking the wrong direction. You may not have the players looking to move as much because the money may not be out there in other places. However, managers and owners will always be looking for the best "bang for the buck", so as soon as a player under-performs his contract they'll be looking to get rid of him. Already happens all the time in the NFL and NBA.


Me not wanting to see Arsenal in a bad position isn't my only arguement.

You don't have to agree with me but if they add a salary cap you will get two things. Neither of which I like.

1) Parity, which if you're after that is fine. It will mean that Arsenal may or may not constantly be struggling to stay in the EPL. Some teams may be able to stay near the top for awhile, but none can stay up for decades and decades like Arsenal have now.

2) Players will move just as much or more. Players will not change in their greed levels just because there is a salary cap. They are always going to try to get whatever they can. On top of that you'll have managers and owners that are cutting over-paid players because they need to get more "bang for the buck" to stay under the cap and still compete. So over-paid players will be cut, traded, sold or other-wise moved off the payroll. As soon as a vet starts reaching the end of his playing days with his large contract from years of production his large contract is going to be a major burden to his team. His production will not justify the large amount of salary cap he eats up and his team will struggle unless the manager can find cheap young talent to make up for his lack of performance. It all becomes a game of finance and speculation, no longer football.

When your high paid player like an Henry is out for a year with injury eating up your salary cap room you can kiss your ass good-bye and enjoy life in the Championship. Just watch what happens to the N.E. Patriots this year now that Brady is out for the season. With a salary cap in the EPL, one bad injury could mean your team doesn't just suffer for a season or until you can sign somebody in January, but gets relegated because they can't spend any money to cover for the injured player.

[rachel83]

Alright, time for me to jump in...

I have a question before I rant so that I don't say the wrong thing. Are we talking about capping a player's wages or the team's wages as a whole?