European Politics

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Re: European Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:29 am

UFGN wrote:The thing is we have a lot of unattractive jobs in this country which Brits hate doing, and have been done by immigrants for decades

Fruit and veg picking
Warehouses and distribution centres
Elderly care homes
Cleaners
Coffee shops
Restaurants
food processing plants

The government’s answer is that Brits will all of a sudden be persuaded to do these shitty jobs! Well im sorry but bullshit, they wont. Thats just reality.

In the short term theres not too much of an issue. But five years from now, when some immigrants doing those jobs go home, others retire, some get better jobs outside of those sectors.......

then what?


That's complete nonsense it's why the loony left is more and more ignored - in one breath they rant on about food banks and no jobs for the poor who are being forced to live on handouts, in the next breath they scream that we have loads of jobs but people aren't prepared to do them so we need to allow cheap foreign labour - what ???????

In essence bring in cheap foreign labour so unwilling to do nasty jobs UK citizens can live from handouts? Do you not see how illogical that position is?

You need to limit the unskilled foreign workers, increase the 'value' as in the wages of the so called undesirable jobs and get people off handouts, off food banks, and into the workforce ... your solution will make the bosses richer by allowing them to abuse cheap foreign labour

That's right wing policy 1-0-1 .... don't you see that?
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Re: European Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:24 am

Not going to happen though.

As I said, Big business and the Gov't are in step on this one.

More immigrants = more population = more tax payers = more cheap labour for business's

Gov'ts may bang on about a cap but they only do that to shut people up, they NEVER cap anything, even the Con's have failed every cap target they've mentioned.

In the light of day Gov't know the ugly truth, de-populating an area or a country leads to less foot traffic, less customers for businesses, less workers, less tax.

Gov'ts don't want ghost towns, they want brimming areas of populace to expand the economy.
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Re: European Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:33 am

DiamondGooner wrote:Not going to happen though.

As I said, Big business and the Gov't are in step on this one.

More immigrants = more population = more tax payers = more cheap labour for business's

Gov'ts may bang on about a cap but they only do that to shut people up, they NEVER cap anything, even the Con's have failed every cap target they've mentioned.

In the light of day Gov't know the ugly truth, de-populating an area or a country leads to less foot traffic, less customers for businesses, less workers, less tax.

Gov'ts don't want ghost towns, they want brimming areas of populace to expand the economy.


That's why you need a capitalist government that actually implements good social policy ... as you say that's been in horribly short supply for decades but just maybe now is the time.

We are going to have a summer where CORVID will make the mass migration of seasonal workers a non-starter ... the whole world not just the UK is going to have to work with the population they have ... wages might well go up in the seasonal job arena which in turn will push up some prices, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, more money going into the economy and the opportunity to get more people into decent paying jobs ...

At some point exploitation of cheap labour will have to stop, become more efficient, more mechanised and pay better wages, that requires capital which the owners don't want to spend, well suck it up you're going to have dig deep.

Every cloud has a silver lining, Brexit and now CORVID just might be the push that ends the abuse of cheap migrant labour ... of course you may be right with Big Business and Government ploughing on regardless, but let's hope unforeseen circumstances just might force a change.
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Re: European Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:00 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
UFGN wrote:The thing is we have a lot of unattractive jobs in this country which Brits hate doing, and have been done by immigrants for decades

Fruit and veg picking
Warehouses and distribution centres
Elderly care homes
Cleaners
Coffee shops
Restaurants
food processing plants

The government’s answer is that Brits will all of a sudden be persuaded to do these shitty jobs! Well im sorry but bullshit, they wont. Thats just reality.

In the short term theres not too much of an issue. But five years from now, when some immigrants doing those jobs go home, others retire, some get better jobs outside of those sectors.......

then what?



Why in your estimation will Brits who utilize food banks but are able to work do not take those jobs?

So you are condoning using cheap third world labour in order to maintain the western life style. Ironic.

Love you too! :1970_two_smileys_drinking_beer_together.gif:


Food banks are used by a wide variety of people including those who have jobs

And I'm sure Poland, Estonia etc are delighted to be called third world countries by you.

I don't agree with able people turning down work as described above, but as a matter of fact, they will. They absolutely will..... they still do now even though the minimum wage has improved

So, what is the solution?

I would add though, in defence of people who turn down these jobs, they are often unreliable hours and unstable employment.... its not just the work itself thats the problem. If youre for example, on job seekers allowance, as soon as you take a job you lose that. But if that job is picking fruit, seasonal, no guarantee of hours, youve then lost your benefits for a job that might only last two weeks.... you then have to aply for benefits again and the process takes weeks....
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Re: European Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:18 am

UFGN wrote:I would add though, in defence of people who turn down these jobs, they are often unreliable hours and unstable employment.... its not just the work itself thats the problem. If youre for example, on job seekers allowance, as soon as you take a job you lose that. But if that job is picking fruit, seasonal, no guarantee of hours, youve then lost your benefits for a job that might only last two weeks.... you then have to aply for benefits again and the process takes weeks....


Except that's flat out wrong and has been for several years .... this is advice from http://www.gov.uk application of JSA to seasonal workers.

If you are a seasonal worker during one calender year, your 'cycle of work' can be considered to only cover the period during which you are working, be that Summer or Winter for example.

You will still count as unemployed for the periods in the year when you are not working and can continue to claim JSA and other benefits, this does not apply to term time workers who repeat the same seasonal cycle over multiple (two or more) years, these will not qualify for JSA but can still apply for other benefits.


The exemption for seasonal workers is to allow them to take a break in unemployment for a fixed period in any single year whilst they fulfil a fixed term 'seasonal contract' which could be picking, Christmas packing, or any other short fixed term seasonal work without losing their claim. It was put in place to prevent exactly the issues you describe. You cannot return to the same seasonal employer year after year that becomes contractual not seasonal, but you can do a whole range of different jobs every year should you so wish.

There is no excuse for an unemployed person not to take a fixed term seasonal job, they will automatically go back to being unemployed as soon as the fixed term ends.

If you're interested this is a paper on exactly this topic from 2005 - the changes came about following a successful appeal against a denial of JSA
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323455/ssac_occasional_paper_4.pdf

It might be that people don't know this and are thus afraid to take seasonal work, that's down to them and the local job centre. If your local job centre is misapplying these guidelines then have a strong word .... the idea is to allow people to work not prevent it.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Kola » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:57 am

Image

Think that governments are very concerned about the ratio of economically active:old dependents, a pyramid shape means that the system can survive because there are enough working people to pay for pensions, however countries like Germany are going to be less than 2:1 in the coming decades (roughly) which is not enough to keep the system afloat in its current form. There are big social issues from having lots of migrants in a short space of time but the impact of this potential demographics timebomb is also potentially very serious.


However we have a problem now with the migrants trying to get to Greece from Turkey, with the european politicians not wanting to lose credibility with their voters/avoid a humanitarian crisis on their doorstep/secretly take in a few potential future taxpayers. Again its interesting to see how they handle this, can european leaders come off this looking strong/competent? :dontknow:
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Re: European Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:12 pm

Kola wrote:Image

Think that governments are very concerned about the ratio of economically active:old dependents, a pyramid shape means that the system can survive because there are enough working people to pay for pensions, however countries like Germany are going to be less than 2:1 in the coming decades (roughly) which is not enough to keep the system afloat in its current form. There are big social issues from having lots of migrants in a short space of time but the impact of this potential demographics timebomb is also potentially very serious.


However we have a problem now with the migrants trying to get to Greece from Turkey, with the european politicians not wanting to lose credibility with their voters/avoid a humanitarian crisis on their doorstep/secretly take in a few potential future taxpayers. Again its interesting to see how they handle this, can european leaders come off this looking strong/competent? :dontknow:



Very good post and visuals.

Many countries are struggling with birth rates and such are encouraging more kids be born with tax incentives and the like. Ironically this is a huge issue in Eastern Europe and gets worse as their standard of living rises. In Africa as your chart shows birth rates are far too high to be sustainable yet the more kids one has as a rural subsistence farmer or herder need the cheap labour.

Yes the border issue between Turkey and Greece is about to explode...especially with Corona spreading as it is in the Middle East. Openly accepting another million refugees into Germany or other western nations is very bad policy right now in terms of public health and politics.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: European Politics

Postby LMAO » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:48 am

The cursed ratio:


That's a 28 point shift in a little less than 4 years :dizzy:

Macron is a few more f**k ups away from France embracing populism next year.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:13 am

LMAO wrote:The cursed ratio:


That's a 28 point shift in a little less than 4 years :dizzy:

Macron is a few more f**k ups away from France embracing populism next year.


Vive Le Pen! :biggrin:
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Re: European Politics

Postby Phil71 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:13 am

Macron has been banging the nationalistic drum himself for a long time in order to gain the populist vote.

The French are naturally nationalistic. Whether they be right wing or left wing they're nationalists.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Phil71 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:03 pm

Mrs Thatcher in 1992.

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Re: European Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:20 pm

Phil71 wrote:Mrs Thatcher in 1992.




Thatcher and Churchill - the 2 great leaders of this country over the last 100 years.
What she achieved in just rising to the top of the Conservative party, never mind becoming Prime Minister was simply astounding.
She'd have been pleased with the actions of the UK electorate to dump the EU.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Phil71 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:23 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Phil71 wrote:Mrs Thatcher in 1992.




Thatcher and Churchill - the 2 great leaders of this country over the last 100 years.
What she achieved in just rising to the top of the Conservative party, never mind becoming Prime Minister was simply astounding.
She'd have been pleased with the actions of the UK electorate to dump the EU.


Absolutely everything she predicted in that clip has come about.
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Re: European Politics

Postby gooney » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:25 pm

Phil71 wrote:Macron has been banging the nationalistic drum himself for a long time in order to gain the populist vote.

The French are naturally nationalistic. Whether they be right wing or left wing they're nationalists.

The french are fascist by nature. They are just embracing their natural self. For my pound for pound the worst people in Europe
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Re: European Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:57 pm

LMAO wrote:The cursed ratio:


That's a 28 point shift in a little less than 4 years :dizzy:

Macron is a few more f**k ups away from France embracing populism next year.



It's the end of the EU if Le Pen wins.
The EU is already on it's last legs now that the UK has left that stinking cesspit.
It may well be Le Pen that ends it for good.
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