European Politics

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European Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am

German far-right politician Frank Magnitz has been beaten up and severely injured in an attack seen by police as politically motivated.

The leader of Alternative for Germany (AfD) in Bremen was attacked by three people in the centre of the northern city on Monday.

Masked men knocked him unconscious with a piece of wood and kicked him in the head, AfD officials said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46792556
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Re: European Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:30 pm

Political violence has no place in the world.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:21 pm

Well in the Irish republic:

Good news, they may have lost Leo as Prime Minister
The bad news: they may have just voted the IRA into government
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Re: European Politics

Postby Phil71 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:06 am

Royal Gooner wrote:Well in the Irish republic:

Good news, they may have lost Leo as Prime Minister
The bad news: they may have just voted the IRA into government


They may be the smaller partner in a coalition with Fianna Fail - and even that is in some doubt.

My guess is Varadkar will swallow his pride and allow Fianna Fail to become the superior Party in a coalition of the two larger Parties.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Kola » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:16 pm

FEATURES
The death of the centre in European politics
What happens when times change, but parties don’t?
Fredrik Erixon

15 February 2020

9:00 AM
Stockholm
It’s hard not to feel sorry for Leo Varadkar. He positioned himself as Ireland’s champion and even ended up with a decent deal. He expected some kind of electoral dividend in the snap election as he urged voters to stay away from the dangerous fringes occupied by Sinn Fein. Instead, they turned to Sinn Fein in record numbers — ending the two-party system that has governed Irish politics for a century.

In Ireland, this is unprecedented, but it fits a trend for Europe as a whole. Voters have been rebelling against old, established ‘centre-ground’ politics, and all around Europe, established politicians have responded by attacking voters. They’ve called their own electorate extremists, fruitcakes, loons, racists — or worse. Is it any wonder that this tactic has backfired? Voters don’t respond well to being insulted by the politicians they employ. They see it as arrogant and entitled. It drives them further into the arms of upstarts and fringe parties.

In Spain the left-wing populists, Podemos, recently cut a deal with the socialists to back Pedro Sanchéz as Prime Minister. The Law and Justice Party in Poland are frequently attacked as authoritarian, but this didn’t stop them from being re-elected last year with 44 per cent of the vote, more than the next two parties combined. The populist Five Star Movement is still the senior party of government in Italy.

In France, polls now put Marine Le Pen ahead of Emmanuel Macron for the next presidential race. Macron’s own party is beginning to crumble, with MPs jumping ship at a rate that may imperil his majority. There were three defections only last week. His En Marche! is also likely to take a beating in this year’s local elections at the hands of the resurgent Le Pen.

Then there’s Angela Merkel. For years, she has urged voters to reject Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) as far-right extremists. But she’s now struggling to persuade her own party, let alone voters, that AfD is beyond the pale. Last week, local politicians in her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) teamed up with AfD to oust the premier of Thuringia, the German state. Mrs Merkel declared this collaboration ‘unforgivable’. But if she can’t persuade her own party officials to steer clear of the AfD, how can she get the message through to voters?

It’s easy to understand why Merkel was so furious. Thuringia was the first state in Germany where Nazis won government roles in the early 1930s. Any association with the AfD in the region reawakens old political traumas and risks causing political backlash for Merkel’s CDU in national polls. The AfD in Thuringia is led by Björn Höcke, a firebrand nationalist and street-smart political operator — often scorned by the party leadership — who leads a splinter group (‘the Wing’) for AfD radicals.

All this just adds to Merkel’s centrist woes. Her coalition with the Social Democrats barely scraped together a majority of the vote at the last election in 2017: since then, both parties have tanked in the polls. Both parties have internal rebellions. Even the moderates are restless for change.

Merkel is, of course, on her way out. Her anointed successor, Annegret Kramp–Karrenbauer, a standard bearer for old German centrism, also resigned as CDU party leader this week — shocked at events in Thuringia. In doing so, she basically admitted that she cannot win against her party’s more conservative rank-and-file. They are now seizing the opportunity. For them, it is time for the CDU to rival the AfD with a stronger message of national identity, law and order, and restricted immigration.

In my country, the Sweden Democrats are now topping the opinion polls — which is extraordinary when you remember that only a few years ago they were denounced by almost everyone as extremists with roots in the neo-Nazi movement. Now, one in four Swedes support them. Establishment parties have used every tactic to halt the rise of the Sweden Democrats — first silencing and de-platforming them, then debating them in tours around the country. They even tried copy-ing Sweden Democrat policies. Everything failed. Now the opposition parties — a combination of the centre-right and the far left — are working with the Sweden Democrats in parliament to change government policy.

This is no longer a story about the rise of populists, it’s a story of change. Either the old parties must adapt or populists will — transforming into the new ruling norm. Manfred Weber, a German member of the European Parliament, said the drama in Thuringia was merely a ‘sign of growing instability among the parties of the middle all across Europe’. But that isn’t quite right. In some parts of Europe, the middle has reinvented itself — and is holding up pretty well. Last June, the Danish populists lost more than half of their seats in the parliament, partly because the Social Democrats returned to a strong message of social cohesion and restrictions on immigration. Austria’s Sebastian Kurz survived last year’s collapse of his coalition government with the nationalist Freedom Party by campaigning on a clear message on national identity and change. Now he is sharing power with another upstart — the Greens.

And look at Britain: after a year of political agony, it left the EU as the only member not to have any populists in parliament. The lesson, from Dublin to Dusseldorf, is pretty clear: Europe’s old political centre is a dead parrot. It has ceased to be, it is a centre no more. Once, politics was defined by industrial–era identities. All parties practically fought over the balance between economic freedom and collectivism — or between labour and capital, if you prefer Marxist terminology. These conflicts are still there, but they aren’t dominant anymore. There are new questions now about national identity — amplified by turbulent geopolitics and demographic change.

This is not about a debate between woke left-liberals and authoritarian nationalists. That is a decoy, a caricature created (or promoted) by keyboard warriors on Twitter. Such labels don’t mean anything to ordinary voters because most voters don’t recognise these identities.

There is a new centre, and it’s occupied by those who observe that the nationalism on the rise is not about racism so much as social cohesion. The voters dismissed as knuckle-dragging nationalists are often most keen on integration. They don’t want to shun migrants; they want them to be assimilated.

Some conservatives are hardline on abortion rights, gender equality and sex education, but this isn’t the real point. Both Marine Le Pen and the Sweden Democrats have gradually embraced lifestyle liberalism. Then take Alice Weidel, who is the leader of the opposition in Germany’s parliament — for the AfD. She’s also a former Goldman Sachs economist who speaks Mandarin fluently and lives with her lesbian partner, a Sri Lanka–born film producer, and their two adopted boys in the outskirts of a Swiss city.

The new centre is anti-ideological, almost anti-political. A good number of voters are enthused neither by free-market economics nor by ideas of economic collectivism. There is strong support for a fairer distribution of economic rewards — between rich and poor, city and town — but this isn’t about writing a cheque. Voters are increasingly distrustful of politicians trying to fix problems by promising to throw more money at them. They have for decades been served half-truths about fixing education, healthcare, housing, the police, prisons with tax-and-spend measures. There have been improvements, for sure, but they are few and far between. Those who have switched their support from old centrist parties to nationalists haven’t done so because of the merits of their policies.

In America, only a fraction of Donald Trump’s supporters like the man or believe what he is saying. Many of his voters picked him precisely because he doesn’t play by the rules. They wanted someone who calls out the complacent and bureaucratic government culture that simply seeks to present a plausible face but never fixes problems. They want someone who breaks things.

And didn’t Boris win his handsome majority by tapping into the same sentiment in Britain? You have to look long and hard to find someone in Bassetlaw, Redcar or Workington who thinks Boris can improve poor healthcare services and make the buses to run on time — or that a decades-long trend of economic decline can be broken by providing access to high-speed rail.
Rightly or wrongly, they voted for Boris because they think his gung-ho personality and unwavering support for Brexit mean he’s prepared to take dramatic measures.

Times change. Arguments change. The old centre is vanishing because too many of the established parties did not want to change — and voters noticed. A new centre ground has opened up, and if Europe’s old parties cannot bring themselves to occupy it, then the new parties will.
spectator.co.uk/podcast — Fredrik Erixon on Europe’s collapsing centre.


Sorry to post a long article but you would have to create an account if i just linked it. The last paragraph sums it up if you can't be arsed reading.

Its a bit heavy on the situations on individual countries but i guess thats to show the overall pattern. For me it gives a very accurate picture of the current story thats unfolding with european politicians.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:04 am

This is a natural swing in response to rampant liberalism and globalist policies. When a party tries to shove shit down your throat and then attacks you for not saying thank you sir may I have another this happens. Humans have tribes and nations for a reason, trying to deny this basic law of nature leads to things like the EU.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Kola » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:43 pm

I agree about this being a response to liberalism which i am not sure is sustainable in the long term.

People like Macron pushing for more integration as the only solution appear out of touch to me. There seems to be the other side of EU politicians who realise how unpopular that is and their position is no more integration now but more when public opinion softens.

I would actually like to see europe as the UKs closest allies working closely together but I am not sure the european politicians would move course to save the ship from sinking.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Kola » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:34 pm

So in the last week we have had a far-right attack in Germany, 10 people shot dead at shisha bars, mostly of Kurdish backgrounds I understand.

The Afd (german populist party) were slammed in the media, lost a few percentage points (and monmentum from previous events), believe there was a local election in Hamburg were they did worse than last election.

Now today a running into a crowd in a car attack on mostly school children in some sort of carnival. Sounds like the bloke was probably middle eastern and although no fatalities this time this might see perceptions swing again.

Speaking from a purely political pov this is moving fast and in unexpected ways, I appreciate these are terrible events but the rammifications of a either a status quo or "make germany great again" government in Germany would have a massive knock on effect across the eurozone and beyond. I am watching with interest.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:21 pm

Kola wrote:So in the last week we have had a far-right attack in Germany, 10 people shot dead at shisha bars, mostly of Kurdish backgrounds I understand.

The Afd (german populist party) were slammed in the media, lost a few percentage points (and monmentum from previous events), believe there was a local election in Hamburg were they did worse than last election.

Now today a running into a crowd in a car attack on mostly school children in some sort of carnival. Sounds like the bloke was probably middle eastern and although no fatalities this time this might see perceptions swing again.

Speaking from a purely political pov this is moving fast and in unexpected ways, I appreciate these are terrible events but the rammifications of a either a status quo or "make germany great again" government in Germany would have a massive knock on effect across the eurozone and beyond. I am watching with interest.



I suspect Germany is a ways from moving hard right, but then even places like Norway, Sweden and Denmark are starting to move that way in response to immigration and unsustainable welfare state issues. The French, who knows as they change their minds every few years. They want green policies then the peasants and farmers riot over fuel taxes, retirement age or simply trade deals. The EU has some tough years ahead.

The same old problem of unexpected consequences, this time resulting from something most of us I assumed was a good thing in the Arab Spring and thus Syria, ISIS and Libya and the mass exodus to Europe.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: European Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:I suspect Germany is a ways from moving hard right, but then even places like Norway, Sweden and Denmark are starting to move that way in response to immigration and unsustainable welfare state issues. The French, who knows as they change their minds every few years. They want green policies then the peasants and farmers riot over fuel taxes, retirement age or simply trade deals. The EU has some tough years ahead.

The same old problem of unexpected consequences, this time resulting from something most of us I assumed was a good thing in the Arab Spring and thus Syria, ISIS and Libya and the mass exodus to Europe.


The Germans are seeing what I suspect will happen in many countries if they can only get away from traditional two party politics. As the German "Left Party" has lost it's way adopting ever more crazy policies, and the German right "AfD Party" has reached it's xenophobic ceiling, and as the old guard at the CDU appear more and more incapable so up come the Green Party ... not a wacky save the planet mob but a centrist party built around capitalist economics supporting social and environmental policies (no shit Sherlock just like Norway) from nowhere in the 80's to a pretty solid 20% they have gone from weirdo activists to rock solid politicians. There is room for just such a party in the UK (unless the Tories fill that gap) and a massive hole at the centre of US politics the problem is getting past the media and the two party system. In the end a modem Green type party could attract the centre 50% and let the left and right have their 25% cultists.

The UK leaving the EU will shake the system to it's core it may well break it, federal Europe isn't happening, but a Capitalist Socialism is very much the way forward. Call it the Nordic Model if you want it's where reality meets lala land ... and it's on the rise.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:27 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:I suspect Germany is a ways from moving hard right, but then even places like Norway, Sweden and Denmark are starting to move that way in response to immigration and unsustainable welfare state issues. The French, who knows as they change their minds every few years. They want green policies then the peasants and farmers riot over fuel taxes, retirement age or simply trade deals. The EU has some tough years ahead.

The same old problem of unexpected consequences, this time resulting from something most of us I assumed was a good thing in the Arab Spring and thus Syria, ISIS and Libya and the mass exodus to Europe.


The Germans are seeing what I suspect will happen in many countries if they can only get away from traditional two party politics. As the German "Left Party" has lost it's way adopting ever more crazy policies, and the German right "AfD Party" has reached it's xenophobic ceiling, and as the old guard at the CDU appear more and more incapable so up come the Green Party ... not a wacky save the planet mob but a centrist party built around capitalist economics supporting social and environmental policies (no shit Sherlock just like Norway) from nowhere in the 80's to a pretty solid 20% they have gone from weirdo activists to rock solid politicians. There is room for just such a party in the UK (unless the Tories fill that gap) and a massive hole at the centre of US politics the problem is getting past the media and the two party system. In the end a modem Green type party could attract the centre 50% and let the left and right have their 25% cultists.

The UK leaving the EU will shake the system to it's core it may well break it, federal Europe isn't happening, but a Capitalist Socialism is very much the way forward. Call it the Nordic Model if you want it's where reality meets lala land ... and it's on the rise.


I agree to an extent. There is a backlash and reduction in the Nordic welfare state. Friends of mine in Norway are a bit concerned that their whole economy and welfare system is oil dependent, wonder what immigration without assimilation will cost them in the long run and feel that their culture is under attack. Relatives in sweden feel the same. Being a compassionate bunch the general feeling seems to be to increase foreign aid rather than open their borders. Building a socialist domestic structure on the back of a capitalist economic system is a fine balance that sadly many in the US and UK do not quite get. The Nordic model was never meant to be a utopian solution as some who view it from a distance think.

Environmental policy needs to be rational and logical along with being economically viable. Patrick Moore who founded Greenpeace has seen the light.

The Green Party in the US is not exactly centre anything but rather is far leftist and like the DSA thinks that dismantling our economic model is the key to saving the planet when the exact opposite is true. I wish some of these pie in the sky neo-socialists would actually take the time to understand that socialist economies are always the least green, produce less food and always lead to massive corruption. Bernie yesterday made a very stupid comment about food lines being a good thing...because at least the masses are being taken care of. He actually claimed that capitalism causes starvation. The man is still crazy after all these years.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: European Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:49 pm

The thing is all these visions of capped immigration and or returning to a more traditional 1940's esque Europe are pipe dreams.

Someone tried that in WWII and look at Germany today.

Globalization has happened, is happening and is never going away.

Governments want immigrants its as simple as that, immigrants = more tax payers, cheap labour force, increased population.

Look at America, their country was built by immigrants, without an immigrant work force America would be half empty and half as developed, also the Mexican and South American native peoples will be increasingly populous in America in 30 years time.

Travel and companies never ending search for more profits are what caused it and its how the future is going to be, Right Wing parties are sputtering as it is, in 40 years time they'll be completely marginalised.
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Re: European Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:08 am

DiamondGooner wrote:The thing is all these visions of capped immigration and or returning to a more traditional 1940's esque Europe are pipe dreams.

Someone tried that in WWII and look at Germany today.

Globalization has happened, is happening and is never going away.

Governments want immigrants its as simple as that, immigrants = more tax payers, cheap labour force, increased population.

Look at America, their country was built by immigrants, without an immigrant work force America would be half empty and half as developed, also the Mexican and South American native peoples will be increasingly populous in America in 30 years time.

Travel and companies never ending search for more profits are what caused it and its how the future is going to be, Right Wing parties are sputtering as it is, in 40 years time they'll be completely marginalised.


Controlled legal immigration is vital. Open borders and masses of low skilled labour is not beneficial. Cheap labour for illegal immigrants means lower wages for citizens.

National Socialism in 1930s Germany had nothing to with immigration...hell Hitler was exporting Germans all over Europe!
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What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: European Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:34 am

The thing is we have a lot of unattractive jobs in this country which Brits hate doing, and have been done by immigrants for decades

Fruit and veg picking
Warehouses and distribution centres
Elderly care homes
Cleaners
Coffee shops
Restaurants
food processing plants

The government’s answer is that Brits will all of a sudden be persuaded to do these shitty jobs! Well im sorry but bullshit, they wont. Thats just reality.

In the short term theres not too much of an issue. But five years from now, when some immigrants doing those jobs go home, others retire, some get better jobs outside of those sectors.......

then what?
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Re: European Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:31 am

UFGN wrote:The thing is we have a lot of unattractive jobs in this country which Brits hate doing, and have been done by immigrants for decades

Fruit and veg picking
Warehouses and distribution centres
Elderly care homes
Cleaners
Coffee shops
Restaurants
food processing plants

The government’s answer is that Brits will all of a sudden be persuaded to do these shitty jobs! Well im sorry but bullshit, they wont. Thats just reality.

In the short term theres not too much of an issue. But five years from now, when some immigrants doing those jobs go home, others retire, some get better jobs outside of those sectors.......

then what?



Why in your estimation will Brits who utilize food banks but are able to work do not take those jobs?

So you are condoning using cheap third world labour in order to maintain the western life style. Ironic.

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What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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