British Politics

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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:02 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Reading into it on the surface it seems fine but Farage doesn't want it, neither do Remain or the DUP, so there's obviously something in the details that they don't like.

Does anyone know specifically what it is?

JRM likes it so it can't be that bad for Leavers??


Border down the Irish Sea

And I think theres other details which tie us to EU regs


From Corbyn ..............

These proposals risk triggering a race to the bottom on rights and protections: putting food safety at risk, cutting environmental standards and workers’ rights, and opening up our NHS to a takeover by US private corporations.

“ .


Hes saying here basically what youve previously said youre concerned about


Yes but that's not necessarily what's going to happen, he's basically saying he doesn't want us out of the EU regs at all because he doesn't trust the Con's to run this country.

If that's the case then he's not going to back ANY deal no matter how good it is, the issue I have with Corbyn is he's hot stepping all over the place so he doesn't have to admit his real stance.

He wants Remain or at worst a close Norway but he won't come out and say it, if the Gov't and the people knew his position then maybe they wouldn't be wasting their time trying to even get a deal knowing full well ALL of them are going to get shot down.

As of my opinion, I'm not sure, there's no guarantee we're going to hand America anything, too much is being made of our reliance on them.
We'll be striking up deals globally and as this is a friendly deal, still be heavily reliant on Europe so I don't think that American take over scenario is a fair assessment in this situation ............. that would be more likely in No Deal.

This is a deal so not the same situation.

Regardless, its not going through anyway as per Corbyn.


Corbyn is 100% right.

The cons cant be trusted, they WILL sell us out wholesale to America. They WILL rent our workers arses out and they WILL manafactue a low tax, low wage, low rights economy. Its in their fabric. Its everything they believe in.

The only thing he will never accept is that he is helping to keep the cons in power


Don't be obtuse about it, you know exactly what that means, it means Labour will never accept ANY version of a Conservative Brexit and what pisses me off is their lying asses are still wasting everyone's time, the Lib Dems are at least being clear, they want Remain or nothing.

Corbyns pissing around is giving the public etc the false impression that they in their words "respect the referendum" when they fkin don't, never did, never had any intention to which makes all these deal talks a waste of fkin time due to the Con's lack of a majority.

People are going to realise this after Boris brings this back and Corbyn will be exposed, Mays deal was different everyone hated it, this time the rats are losing their masks.

.......... also you don't know if the Cons will sell us out to America, they're businessmen as well, yes they prob want a Capitalist utopia but they also want power and they won't have that dishing it all up for the yanks.

Either way it doesn't change the status quo which is Brexit is still and won't be served.

Boris should put his deal vs Remain to the people in a referendum, that's the only way to get a true mandate to strong arm Parliament.

That would be his best shot because if Labour knock this down and all Boris is left with is No Deal, he'll never win.


Its you who is being obtuse

Look at the Tories record in government

Look at the individuals in this government

You can break out all the ifs and maybes you like, but you know I'm right.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:21 pm

UFGN wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Reading into it on the surface it seems fine but Farage doesn't want it, neither do Remain or the DUP, so there's obviously something in the details that they don't like.

Does anyone know specifically what it is?

JRM likes it so it can't be that bad for Leavers??


Border down the Irish Sea

And I think theres other details which tie us to EU regs


From Corbyn ..............

These proposals risk triggering a race to the bottom on rights and protections: putting food safety at risk, cutting environmental standards and workers’ rights, and opening up our NHS to a takeover by US private corporations.

“ .


Hes saying here basically what youve previously said youre concerned about


Yes but that's not necessarily what's going to happen, he's basically saying he doesn't want us out of the EU regs at all because he doesn't trust the Con's to run this country.

If that's the case then he's not going to back ANY deal no matter how good it is, the issue I have with Corbyn is he's hot stepping all over the place so he doesn't have to admit his real stance.

He wants Remain or at worst a close Norway but he won't come out and say it, if the Gov't and the people knew his position then maybe they wouldn't be wasting their time trying to even get a deal knowing full well ALL of them are going to get shot down.

As of my opinion, I'm not sure, there's no guarantee we're going to hand America anything, too much is being made of our reliance on them.
We'll be striking up deals globally and as this is a friendly deal, still be heavily reliant on Europe so I don't think that American take over scenario is a fair assessment in this situation ............. that would be more likely in No Deal.

This is a deal so not the same situation.

Regardless, its not going through anyway as per Corbyn.


Corbyn is 100% right.

The cons cant be trusted, they WILL sell us out wholesale to America. They WILL rent our workers arses out and they WILL manafactue a low tax, low wage, low rights economy. Its in their fabric. Its everything they believe in.

The only thing he will never accept is that he is helping to keep the cons in power


You seem to be forgetting one important fact.

If the electorate don't like the policies of one government or other they can stop voting for them. Then a new government can put an end to those policies.


All I ever hear from brexiteers is how we can maybe repair the damage it will cause, or how if everything goes exactly to plan we might end up neutral


I'm not a brexiteer.

Merely pointing out that whatever happens during whichever government can always be undone by the next. i.e. we would not be condemned to a purgatory of chlorinated chicken in perpetuity if Boris & Donald strike a trade deal.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:23 pm

UFGN wrote:Its you who is being obtuse

Look at the Tories record in government

Look at the individuals in this government

You can break out all the ifs and maybes you like, but you know I'm right.


I know what their record is.

But your using the Tories as a reason to ignore the referendum.

My first priority is the upholding of democracy.

If people want to Remain then force the Gov't into a GE or Referendum and win it, that's the only way Center voters are going to respect the outcome.

You can't just sweep the result under the carpet, the fall out from that will not be good for this country, as its already showing.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:26 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:Its you who is being obtuse

Look at the Tories record in government

Look at the individuals in this government

You can break out all the ifs and maybes you like, but you know I'm right.


I know what their record is.

But your using the Tories as a reason to ignore the referendum.

My first priority is the upholding of democracy.

If people want to Remain then force the Gov't into a GE or Referendum and win it, that's the only way Center voters are going to respect the outcome.

You can't just sweep the result under the carpet, the fall out from that will not be good for this country, as its already showing.


A ref would be fine by me

A GE doesn't cut it because FPTP does not = a simple majority
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:21 pm

Oh dear .......... this is really going to put the spotlight right onto Parliament and show them for the den of c*nts they are.

"Brexit news latest: All 27 EU leaders approve new deal"

Seems the whole of the EU with all of their agendas are not worse than our politicians ............. this is fkin embarrassing.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:07 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Oh dear .......... this is really going to put the spotlight right onto Parliament and show them for the den of c*nts they are.

"Brexit news latest: All 27 EU leaders approve new deal"

Seems the whole of the EU with all of their agendas are not worse than our politicians ............. this is fkin embarrassing.


Seriously now

This is one of the reasons I support the EU. All the lies told about it in the right wing MSM about inefficiency, not agreeing on anything, not being Democratic...... well, look at the truth.

We need them to protect us from our politicians. Said it from the very start.
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Re: British Politics

Postby aniym » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:07 pm

All 27 signed off on May's deals as well, did they not?

Seeing as how the UK will be holding the bag in terms of economic consequences of the proposed deal, I would think MPs might want to debate the terms of the deal on Saturday instead of just blindly signing it because the EU agreed.

If the consequences are negative and the benefits of Brexit don't materialize in the short term, MPs will be blamed for signing off on a bad deal and voted out.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Reverend Gooner » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:27 pm

I share Corbyn's worries and I believe that a Tory majority with their current further right makeup leading into a US trade deal (which will be the conservatives 'surrender act' or even a 'treason act') will pave the way to a future where the quality of life, outlook and prosperity is unimaginably damaged for the impoverished, working and lower middle classes.

However we cannot keep going around like this, just vote for the deal and concentrate on campaigning on why it should be labour who guides the way in the new post brexit Britain and not the conservatives. Instead he won't, he can keep going on about a 'damaging tory brexit', and he is right, but he knows labour won't get in again until he goes and the party move a little more to the center. He must know that, especially as it has been made clear that noone will go into a coalition with him, that means labour majority or labour not in power! Will he step down for the good of stopping the Tories..... no he won't so in the end he will be guilty of keeping the conservatives in for so long.

There is a lot of talk about a referendum ammendment on Saturday, which the EU will blatantly extend for but if that gets through won't the government just pull the vote and then move on to a no deal or an extension and general election without the referendum? So it is probably a waste of time.

Farage was funny today championing the Benn act, lol, one moment in all this to tickle the spirits.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:00 pm

aniym wrote:All 27 signed off on May's deals as well, did they not?

Seeing as how the UK will be holding the bag in terms of economic consequences of the proposed deal, I would think MPs might want to debate the terms of the deal on Saturday instead of just blindly signing it because the EU agreed.

If the consequences are negative and the benefits of Brexit don't materialize in the short term, MPs will be blamed for signing off on a bad deal and voted out.


They will get to see it, they didn't sign May's because of the backstop ............ this one has no backstop.

Still don't want to sign it.

Its all BS.

Also all this stuff about the Cons, you do know we can vote them out right, making out we can't run our country without the EU?? jesus.

How about a UK run by Central Liberals or something of the like, the Con's will lose appeal to the masses if they try to screw u over, simple as that .
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:03 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
aniym wrote:All 27 signed off on May's deals as well, did they not?

Seeing as how the UK will be holding the bag in terms of economic consequences of the proposed deal, I would think MPs might want to debate the terms of the deal on Saturday instead of just blindly signing it because the EU agreed.

If the consequences are negative and the benefits of Brexit don't materialize in the short term, MPs will be blamed for signing off on a bad deal and voted out.


They will get to see it, they didn't sign May's because of the backstop ............ this one has no backstop.

Still don't want to sign it.

Its all BS.

Also all this stuff about the Cons, you do know we can vote them out right, making out we can't run our country without the EU?? jesus.

How about a UK run by Central Liberals or something of the like, the Con's will lose appeal to the masses if they try to screw u over, simple as that .


They will do a lot of damage before we manage to get rid of them

A lot.
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Re: British Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:29 am

Rockape wrote:I’m pretty positive that Boris could have negotiated a deal that answers every concern possible, and Corbyn would still find fault with it and vote against it. He knows that if a deal does go through, it will mean him and his party will become even more isolated than ever.


Corbyn was on the media rejecting the Deal 28 minutes before it was even released ... says it all

The Tories may be c****, but Brown f***ked the economy, and Blair took us into an illegal war ... there are sinners on both sides ... it's why we have fixed term parliaments so you can vote the c**** out if they feck up too much.

Labour won't attach a referendum amendment it's suicide for them if they try, they know they don't have the votes and that all it will do is guarantee that the Deal passes, in fact for Boris this is now a win-win and for Corbyn it's a lose-lose. The only chance of getting a referendum is by taking control of Parliament after the Deal is approved and before the 31st October, or by winning a GE ... both look like real long shots at the moment.

If Labour again block the Deal approved by the EU they risk no extension and a Hard Brexit, not likely but still a risk. Even granted an extension all that does is force a GE, one in which Corbyn's Labour will be crucified at the ballot box ... the Tories will get Tory / Brexit / and Leave with a Deal voters, that's currently polling at 58% now whilst polls are not facts if you don't see the way the mood has swung behind this Deal you are simply not living with reality.

Corbyn would be better off accepting the Deal and preparing Labour (without Corbyn) for the first post Brexit GE ... but his pride and sheer stubbornness will never allow that ... hence Lose - Lose ... even if he wins the battle on Saturday he still loses the war.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:10 pm

No matter how much Labour spin the Benn Act, it relies on the EU granting the extension if MPs reject it. If they don't, then we will have a no deal Brexit. Then maybe they will realise they should have given Boris his election when he asked.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:47 pm

I see the betting odds are currently evens on Boris winning the vote and 6/5 on losing it. Clearly people think a lot of Labour supporters are going to vote it through, but from where I’m standing I’m thinking of putting £20 on Boris losing by ten or more votes.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:41 pm

He needs 320 votes.

I think his very best hope is around 295. And that is ambitious.

My guess is he'll get about 280.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Reverend Gooner » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:48 pm

Best scenario is the Letwin ammendment passes and then the deal passes. A lot is being made about an extension being required if Letwin passes but many political commentators are saying it will actually speed things up as Johnson will look to get everything done by the 31st anyway and the ERG will fold as it will mean 'no deal' is officially off and they just want out.

Awful outcome to get such a hard brexit but not as bad as no deal which so many of the current government are aiming for.
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