British Politics

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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:02 pm

UFGN wrote:
Phil71 wrote:You will always have a situation whereby the majority of the most successful people in any country are educated at the best schools. That's about money.

Rich people will pay the extra money to get their kids a better education. Anyone would do it.


Its got nothing to do with the quality of the education. Its purely and simply to do with networking, the school tie etc

As I said, it doesn't matter how you spin it. The idea in the 21st century that such a percentage of leaders should come from what, 8 boarding schools and two or three universities is indefensible


I know what you mean but you can't stop "networking" its not a European problem either, this happens in every country, every where.

Real change is not what politics is about, modern politics is about changing as little as possible while making people think they can choose or that changes are happening.

Take Trump for example, what has he really changed? half a wall? in the UK the first time we voted to really change something ......... and Parliament are fighting tooth and nail to stop it.

On a side note, my history studies have taken me up to WWII and Nazi Germany, facsinating to see modern political and social engineering tactics used in their raw early form and its use and effectiveness.
I see a lot of similarities at the lower levels between that and Brexit, its a classic example that in a crisis politics hardens to Far Left & Far Right and all common sense goes out the window.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Phil71 wrote:You will always have a situation whereby the majority of the most successful people in any country are educated at the best schools. That's about money.

Rich people will pay the extra money to get their kids a better education. Anyone would do it.


Its got nothing to do with the quality of the education. Its purely and simply to do with networking, the school tie etc

As I said, it doesn't matter how you spin it. The idea in the 21st century that such a percentage of leaders should come from what, 8 boarding schools and two or three universities is indefensible


I know what you mean but you can't stop "networking" its not a European problem either, this happens in every country, every where.

Real change is not what politics is about, modern politics is about changing as little as possible while making people think they can choose or that changes are happening.

Take Trump for example, what has he really changed? half a wall? in the UK the first time we voted to really change something ......... and Parliament are fighting tooth and nail to stop it.

On a side note, my history studies have taken me up to WWII and Nazi Germany, facsinating to see modern political and social engineering tactics used in their raw early form and its use and effectiveness.
I see a lot of similarities at the lower levels between that and Brexit, its a classic example that in a crisis politics hardens to Far Left & Far Right and all common sense goes out the window.


You hold brexit up as an example of real change

Cameron and Osbourne on one side

Johnson and Farage on the other

Three Bullingdon Club thugs and a City trader son of a stock broker
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:38 pm

UFGN wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Phil71 wrote:You will always have a situation whereby the majority of the most successful people in any country are educated at the best schools. That's about money.

Rich people will pay the extra money to get their kids a better education. Anyone would do it.


Its got nothing to do with the quality of the education. Its purely and simply to do with networking, the school tie etc

As I said, it doesn't matter how you spin it. The idea in the 21st century that such a percentage of leaders should come from what, 8 boarding schools and two or three universities is indefensible


Yes I'll give you that regarding the old school tie.

What would you suggest can be done about it?

It's natural in all walks of life for people to give people they know a foot in the door or a hand up the ladder.


It is for parties to think very carefully about who they are putting forward as parliamentary candidates, and if they are genuinely people chosen based on ability and nothing else

Johnson is our second Bullingdon club PM in.a row. Its disgusting.


Second but one.

Theresa May is a Vicar’s daughter from Eastbourne who was educated in state schools and worked a Saturday job in a bakers.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:48 pm

UFGN wrote:
You hold brexit up as an example of real change

Cameron and Osbourne on one side

Johnson and Farage on the other

Three Bullingdon Club thugs and a City trader son of a stock broker


What has that got to do with the sizeable impact of leaving the EU? that is the real change I was describing.

Also Brexit is more about the public than the politicians.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:59 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
You hold brexit up as an example of real change

Cameron and Osbourne on one side

Johnson and Farage on the other

Three Bullingdon Club thugs and a City trader son of a stock broker


What has that got to do with the sizeable impact of leaving the EU? that is the real change I was describing.

Also Brexit is more about the public than the politicians.


At the time of the referendum yes.

Since then it’s been about the politicians. And three of those mentioned have played little or no part.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:00 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
You hold brexit up as an example of real change

Cameron and Osbourne on one side

Johnson and Farage on the other

Three Bullingdon Club thugs and a City trader son of a stock broker


What has that got to do with the sizeable impact of leaving the EU? that is the real change I was describing.

Also Brexit is more about the public than the politicians.


If you are being sold a dream, pay close attention to the salesmen

I do not much like our politicians, and I least of all like Tories for a whole lotta reasons. They permitted the vote, they campaigned strongly for it and weakly against it.

Corbyn is a stupid old fool. He cant see that his dislike of globalism and big business which he attributes to the EU, will be worse still outside of it. The Tories know it. Its their ultimate wank bank fantasy.

So, this great change.... orchestrated by big business through the Conservative Party and their pseudo frothy mouthed "alternative", Nigel Farage and Co

The public have been played like c***
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:18 pm

UFGN wrote:If you are being sold a dream, pay close attention to the salesmen

I do not much like our politicians, and I least of all like Tories for a whole lotta reasons. They permitted the vote, they campaigned strongly for it and weakly against it.

Corbyn is a stupid old fool. He cant see that his dislike of globalism and big business which he attributes to the EU, will be worse still outside of it. The Tories know it. Its their ultimate wank bank fantasy.

So, this great change.... orchestrated by big business through the Conservative Party and their pseudo frothy mouthed "alternative", Nigel Farage and Co

The public have been played like c***


Absolutely.

That's what I mean't about the similarities between Brexit and Nazi Germany, the Nazi's used Germany's Versaile Treaty penalties and the Great depression to get people on board, they even had to hide a lot of what they were planning from the public and instead sold the idea of jobs and nationalisation to bring the country back to its feet, while people were jobless and starving.

For example when they banned going to Jewish owned shops I was surprised to see that a lot of Germans still did despite the SA standing outside trying to intimidate them.

What surprised me most was the absolute hammering the Germans took and frequent re-votes to break and allow Hitler in, there was massive resistance to the Nazi's for 10 years before the national tragedies allowed them to get into power.

What I got most from it was the start of national modern propaganda used by Gobbels, the first of its kind with Newspapers, radio, posters etc ........... its quite disturbing how the press and media can be used for fake news and false information.

People are too ready to accept what they're told, most people read the headlines, they don't read the small print.
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Re: British Politics

Postby alexafc12 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:52 pm

Is DG a Lib Dem yet ?
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:10 am

The Supreme Court rules the prorogation was unlawful

What next?
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:04 am

Lied and lied and lied during the campaign

Broke the law to silence scrutiny

Throw the criminal c*** in jail
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:57 am

Do you know why this is a shambles?

Because the Con's obviously got Parliament advice and the Parliament experts who work with the Speaker on Parliament procedure should of been able to say whether this was unlawful from the off.

What the Court has done here is interjected personal bias because ........... Prorouging is not unlawful, what they're debating is the time scale, its "usually" a week, so where is the rules on this? where does it state what length of time is lawful or not?

This seems to me to be nothing but opinion, I'm happy for Parliament to resume but this is a question of rules not being properly put into place to begin with ............. British Democracy is cracking, it seems as if its only lasted this long because its never been tested in a crisis before.

Its being tested now and has more pot holes on the rules than badly laid side street.

Embarrassing.

"The court unanimously declared "the Prime Minister's advice to Her Majesty was unlawful, void and of no effect" when he asked the Queen to suspend parliament.

The decision "had the effect of frustrating or preventing" parliament from carrying out its functions, it said, and was like "a blank sheet of paper".

The court decided that the suspension of parliament essentially never happened at all.

BBC legal correspondent Clive Coleman called it legal, constitutional and political dynamite - and said it is difficult to overestimate the significance of the ruling.

How do you close down a parliament?
The Supreme Court made clear it wasn't ruling on Brexit - but simply deciding if the prime minister could lawfully "prorogue" Parliament - a fancy word for suspending it.

It's not an unusual move: new prime ministers usually do that to end one session of parliament and start another, with a new legislative programme. In recent decades, it's usually lasted a week."
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:26 pm

I think he has to consider his position to be honest.

Especially in regard to the advice that was given to the Queen.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:35 pm

If Corbyn would agree to step aside in the event of a vote of no confidence, I think it would succeed.

But nobody in their right mind would vote to oust Johnson and replace him with Corbyn.

If the House could agree on a replacement interim Tory PM like Kenneth Clarke leading a Coalition government, I think that would work - at least to get the country through the current situation.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:44 pm

Phil71 wrote:I think he has to consider his position to be honest.

Especially in regard to the advice that was given to the Queen.


But surely Johnson isn't at fault for advice that was given to him?

Parliaments procedure staff should of raised something and so should the team that was consulted that it was legitimate.

I don't see why he should have to resign over a rule based on opinion.

I want him to stay, keep fkin this sh*t up because its just bring to the fore what a joke our political system is, can't fix it if you can't see the cracks.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:08 pm

He needs to resign. Its an outrageous situation.

He conducted a smash and grab illegal move, against the clear advice of the Speaker, while the Speaker was on holiday

Hes a criminal

In addition he continues to state quite wrongly that its the law that we leave on Oct 31st.

Hes ignoring the act of Parliament which blocks that, and in doing so he is repeatedly threatening to break the law again.
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