British Politics

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Re: British Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:12 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:House of Lords is on the verge of needing to go tbh.

I don't like the way they are trying to carry on the Brexit debate, its over and its done, why they think they can try and halt it purely with their own bias is embarrassing.

It was a clean sweep for Boris, just let the man get on with it, and I don't want to hear this "But he shouldn't have a blank cheque" bs, that will be up to the EU to work out or offer what they feel is right for them, its not up to our House of Lords to try and ham string the Gov't.


You can trace that back to 1999 when Blair constitutionally vandalised the house. Got rid of all the hereditaries who acted with the country's best interests in mind and just stuffed it full of labour peers making it a House of Cronies. Since then, they've run roughshod over the Salisbury Convention that the Lords will not block what was in an elected government's manifesto.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:01 am

DiamondGooner wrote:House of Lords is on the verge of needing to go tbh.

I don't like the way they are trying to carry on the Brexit debate, its over and its done, why they think they can try and halt it purely with their own bias is embarrassing.

It was a clean sweep for Boris, just let the man get on with it, and I don't want to hear this "But he shouldn't have a blank cheque" bs, that will be up to the EU to work out or offer what they feel is right for them, its not up to our House of Lords to try and ham string the Gov't.


As with American politics, they are simply trying to overturn elections and thus democracy.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:28 am

Blair got rid of the herediTORY peers because they were a disgusting stain on our country

f**k Boris. He won the election, so what? We are not a dictatorship, and the executive does not hold all the power, not now, not ever. If this Labour opposition wont or cant hold the c*** to account, somebody has to

Difficult questions still need asking and answering. I know most people dont seem to care that this lying peice of shit has got away with dodging scrutiny at every turn, but I do care.

If you care about our rights, our services and our country, dont be just another embarrassing sheep bleating "just get brexit done"
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Re: British Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:50 am

UFGN wrote:Blair got rid of the herediTORY peers because they were a disgusting stain on our country

f**k Boris. He won the election, so what? We are not a dictatorship, and the executive does not hold all the power, not now, not ever. If this Labour opposition wont or cant hold the c*** to account, somebody has to

Difficult questions still need asking and answering. I know most people dont seem to care that this lying peice of shit has got away with dodging scrutiny at every turn, but I do care.

If you care about our rights, our services and our country, dont be just another embarrassing sheep bleating "just get brexit done"


They may have been Tory leaning, but they knew what their job was. To scrutinise the legislation and give it a fresh pair of eyes to make the government think and not do something silly. Hence why between 1949 and 1999, they were only overruled once. They also agreed the simple principle that they would not block what was in an elected government's manifesto.

Tony's Cronies (and other life peers) since 1999, have behaved just like former politicians would and actively try to tinker with and frustrate the manifesto of the elected government.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:59 pm

UFGN wrote:Blair got rid of the herediTORY peers because they were a disgusting stain on our country

f**k Boris. He won the election, so what? We are not a dictatorship, and the executive does not hold all the power, not now, not ever. If this Labour opposition wont or cant hold the c*** to account, somebody has to

Difficult questions still need asking and answering. I know most people dont seem to care that this lying peice of shit has got away with dodging scrutiny at every turn, but I do care.

If you care about our rights, our services and our country, dont be just another embarrassing sheep bleating "just get brexit done"



How can argue that a duly elected PM whose party won in a landslide is a dictatorship? What you are really saying is that fellow Britons who voted for someone you don't care for need to be held to account. How totalitarian of you. Here's a clue, try respecting Democracy (and the votes of others) rather than trashing it while claiming to stand behind it.

Which "rights" are under threat in your estimation? Specifically, which rights are you concerned about?
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:09 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
UFGN wrote:Blair got rid of the herediTORY peers because they were a disgusting stain on our country

f**k Boris. He won the election, so what? We are not a dictatorship, and the executive does not hold all the power, not now, not ever. If this Labour opposition wont or cant hold the c*** to account, somebody has to

Difficult questions still need asking and answering. I know most people dont seem to care that this lying peice of shit has got away with dodging scrutiny at every turn, but I do care.

If you care about our rights, our services and our country, dont be just another embarrassing sheep bleating "just get brexit done"



How can argue that a duly elected PM whose party won in a landslide is a dictatorship? What you are really saying is that fellow Britons who voted for someone you don't care for need to be held to account. How totalitarian of you. Here's a clue, try respecting Democracy (and the votes of others) rather than trashing it while claiming to stand behind it.

Which "rights" are under threat in your estimation? Specifically, which rights are you concerned about?


He won the election and Brexit is happening.

He doesn't get to push through every aspect of it without serious scrutiny, sorry. This is not to be used by him as an opportunity to create a tory, authoritarian right wing wet dream.

I am concerned about employment rights, as highlighted recently by his watering down of wording which would have guaranteed UK workers’ rights be aligned with the EU. This will not now be the case.

I am concerned about civil rights, as highlighted by the recent decision to wave through use of unreliable and intrusive facial recognition technology by the police

I am concerned about food standards and the cost of medicines.

All of this and more needs serious scrutiny. It can not be simply left to this executive, who have a horrific track record of authoritarianism, self interest and utter contempt for the poor
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Re: British Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:22 pm

You claim Boris and the right are authoritarian yet he is simply carrying out what he was elected to do. If enough people share your concerns then they will vote the Tories out.

That is Democracy at work.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:42 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:You claim Boris and the right are authoritarian yet he is simply carrying out what he was elected to do. If enough people share your concerns then they will vote the Tories out.

That is Democracy at work.


A* for misrepresentation.

As you clearly know, you asked me why I was concerned, and his authoritarian attitude to civil rights was one of three answers. Unless youre claiming he was elected specifically to infringe on civil rights then your comment is irrelevant.

If youre not going to play a straight bat then dont waste yours or my time, because I couldn't give a monkeys about your opinion on my opinion.

As I already said, he can have his damn brexit

As I already said, I want him to be effectively scrutinised on the detail.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:04 pm

Well its happening, finally.

Was really worried the un-democratic forces in England were going to get away with screwing the people over.

In the end it doesn't matter whether your a Remainer or a Leaver, what matters was there was a vote and democracy demands it be upheld, simple as that.

If Brexit fails we can rejoin.

The threats and the lies of the original campaign have only been superdeded by the absolute farce which has happened since.

Very worrying how politicians and extremists on both ends use online opinion polls to gather numbers to refuse democratic decisions ............. however as results in America and the UK have demonstrated, yes you can arrange a few thousand for a protest but shouting loudest on TV does not equate to national numbers of votes.

Too many as what can only be described as "d*ckheads" mistake their little online campaigns with 200k "likes" as representing a true reflection of what will eventually be the actual vote.

"Brexiteer's have changed" their minds they said, then they drag out on QT some emotionally shook tw*t almost sobbing stating "I didn't know what I was voting for, I regret voting for Brexit" and then they try and portray that likes its endemic.

So sick of the poor manipulation tactics of TV and media along with the radicals .......... that's why I found it funny when Trump won, that's why I was against the hardcore Remainer's, not because I was convinced Brexit was the best thing to do but because they talked sh*t and yes Brexiteers talked sh*t ............. but Brexit won, so that's why I may of seemed bias, its because yes everyone exaggerates and talks sh*t but only one side was trying to block a democratic decision.

All along I've stated, my primary concern was the upholding of democracy > everything else.

We can make decisions, we can reverse or fix them ........... but once you break your democratic constitution then no vote or result will ever be respected or accepted to be upheld ever again.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:11 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Well its happening, finally.

Was really worried the un-democratic forces in England were going to get away with screwing the people over.

In the end it doesn't matter whether your a Remainer or a Leaver, what matters was there was a vote and democracy demands it be upheld, simple as that.

If Brexit fails we can rejoin.

The threats and the lies of the original campaign have only been superdeded by the absolute farce which has happened since.

Very worrying how politicians and extremists on both ends use online opinion polls to gather numbers to refuse democratic decisions ............. however as results in America and the UK have demonstrated, yes you can arrange a few thousand for a protest but shouting loudest on TV does not equate to national numbers of votes.

Too many as what can only be described as "d*ckheads" mistake their little online campaigns with 200k "likes" as representing a true reflection of what will eventually be the actual vote.

"Brexiteer's have changed" their minds they said, then they drag out on QT some emotionally shook tw*t almost sobbing stating "I didn't know what I was voting for, I regret voting for Brexit" and then they try and portray that likes its endemic.

So sick of the poor manipulation tactics of TV and media along with the radicals .......... that's why I found it funny when Trump won, that's why I was against the hardcore Remainer's, not because I was convinced Brexit was the best thing to do but because they talked sh*t and yes Brexiteers talked sh*t ............. but Brexit won, so that's why I may of seemed bias, its because yes everyone exaggerates and talks sh*t but only one side was trying to block a democratic decision.

All along I've stated, my primary concern was the upholding of democracy > everything else.

We can make decisions, we can reverse or fix them ........... but once you break your democratic constitution then no vote or result will ever be respected or accepted to be upheld ever again.


Youre chatting bollocks DG

You supported a second referendum and thats a fact.

You change with the wind like a stick of barley then criticise others for holding all the many opinions youve previously held

Mental gymnastics and yeah buts.... thats your game.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:00 pm

If I ever supported a 2nd referendum that would of only been as a reaction to current events, something that slips past your sensibilities.

For e.g ........... when I said ok to a 2nd Ref was that because Parliament was completely gridlocked and sabotaging any sign of progress?

Yes, so basically I was in favor of anything that got this moving forward, I didn't want a 2nd ref initially and I was happy when there was a Party election ........... which effectively was a 2nd ref so yes, in hindsight I was right, we've now got a result that Parliament couldn't back track on.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Arsenal Tone » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:35 pm

Looking forward to that massive investment in the NHS. What was it? 350m?
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:44 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:If I ever supported a 2nd referendum that would of only been as a reaction to current events, something that slips past your sensibilities.

For e.g ........... when I said ok to a 2nd Ref was that because Parliament was completely gridlocked and sabotaging any sign of progress?

Yes, so basically I was in favor of anything that got this moving forward, I didn't want a 2nd ref initially and I was happy when there was a Party election ........... which effectively was a 2nd ref so yes, in hindsight I was right, we've now got a result that Parliament couldn't back track on.


Oh, that makes it ok then. Reacting to current events..... as I said, blowing like barley in the wind with whatever youve decided is a good idea that particular day.

You felt very, very stongly in support of Brexit at the time of the vote but then denied that that had ever been the case......and supported a second referendum but now cant accept that either. What does that say about your unerring support for "democracy"? Not a lot.

Just so long as you weren't advocating going against the Democratic will of the people by taking part in a remainer-driven 2nd referendum (oh but you were)

Just so long as you can condemn everyone who wanted exactly the same as you when it suits your current narrative
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Re: British Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:59 am

UFGN wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:You claim Boris and the right are authoritarian yet he is simply carrying out what he was elected to do. If enough people share your concerns then they will vote the Tories out.

That is Democracy at work.


A* for misrepresentation.

As you clearly know, you asked me why I was concerned, and his authoritarian attitude to civil rights was one of three answers. Unless youre claiming he was elected specifically to infringe on civil rights then your comment is irrelevant.

If youre not going to play a straight bat then dont waste yours or my time, because I couldn't give a monkeys about your opinion on my opinion.

As I already said, he can have his damn brexit

As I already said, I want him to be effectively scrutinised on the detail.




I actually asked you what rights you think are in danger. You dodged that. Which specific civil rights are you concerned about losing?

Just because someone challenges your opinion does not mean they are or I are not playing straight.

So now you are worried about your perception of Boris as holding an "authoritarian attitude". You previously claimed that Boris and the right are authoritarians.

Look dude, it's a discussion. If you can't be reasonable and defend your views that is fine. If you notice, I was responding to your posts that made some very salacious claims about folks who don't hold the same opinions as you do.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:42 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:You claim Boris and the right are authoritarian yet he is simply carrying out what he was elected to do. If enough people share your concerns then they will vote the Tories out.

That is Democracy at work.


A* for misrepresentation.

As you clearly know, you asked me why I was concerned, and his authoritarian attitude to civil rights was one of three answers. Unless youre claiming he was elected specifically to infringe on civil rights then your comment is irrelevant.

If youre not going to play a straight bat then dont waste yours or my time, because I couldn't give a monkeys about your opinion on my opinion.

As I already said, he can have his damn brexit

As I already said, I want him to be effectively scrutinised on the detail.




I actually asked you what rights you think are in danger. You dodged that. Which specific civil rights are you concerned about losing?

Just because someone challenges your opinion does not mean they are or I are not playing straight.

So now you are worried about your perception of Boris as holding an "authoritarian attitude". You previously claimed that Boris and the right are authoritarians.

Look dude, it's a discussion. If you can't be reasonable and defend your views that is fine. If you notice, I was responding to your posts that made some very salacious claims about folks who don't hold the same opinions as you do.


I have no patience for people who deliberately misrepresent what I write. Thats what you tried to do.

And I didn't duck anything, I gave you a detailed answer backed up by examples, which you couldn't handle so ignored.

Regarding specific civil rights, in recent years we've seen the introduction of the snoopers charter, introduction of invasive facial recognition technology, deep cuts to legal aid, and a widening of the powers of magistates to place restrictions on citizens’ freedom, without the "criminal" burden of proof which underpins justice (guilty beyond reasonable doubt.)

In employment law we face an uncertain future, with assurances of parity with the EU cynically removed by Johnson immediately after his reelection, and new restrictions on trade unions in the pipeline.

With that very recent and ongoing track record, you ask me for specifics at a time when we are stepping away from the ECJ? Im concerned about civil rights full stop. And scrutiny is urgently needed.
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