Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:UFGN wrote:The argument that "trickle down economy works" in a country where thousands of working families are reduced to using food banks is plain ignorant.
Its exactly the same argument that goes "sweatshops help the poor in xyz country because otherwise they'd have nothing"...... when those people are going home to a shanty town with no toilets and a car battery for a power supply
Socialism is only good for the elites and capitalism and its trickle down myth is good for the poor.... wow ok
Im sick of hearing the same old shit from the right tbh. Sick of pandering to it
Why is it that the best places to live in the world, with the lowest crime, tend to be more liberal and more equal, with better public services and more personal freedom? Funny that.
Right wing trickle down my c***.
Liberal, compassionate policies breed the best living standards.
Can you define "trickle down" economics? I did in a previous post and it is applicable to any free economy. Do you also deny that the principles of supply and demand is factual? They are directly related to each other, actually one and the same . The flippant use of the term trickle down economics is a political statement, not an economic one.
Your sweatshop analogy is simply hyperbole. You are talking about Soviet or Chinese style exploitation or Victorian Britain, not a modern capitalist economy. Global poverty is at its lowest level ever, not due to socialism but rather due to capitalism being embraced in the third world. I refer you to the Economist reporting on this from three years ago. If you REALLY care about the less fortunate and a wealth gap the actual fight is against systemic corruption. Recent revolutions and demonstrations across the world have been staged against corruption from Iraq to Bolivia. Corruption is a constant in socialist economies and sadly in most third world nations.
Could you name a socialist economy that has worked? I don't mean countries like Norway or Sweden which have massive social aide programs , but rather real examples of economic socialism working. Scandinavian nations are indeed very nice places to live but that is because they have thriving capitalist economies and amazing work ethic which gave them the wherewithal to implement social structures as they have.
Having worked and lived in countries from India and Nepal to the far east, Pacific Islands, Central America, Bahama, the UK and family in Sweden I have concluded for myself that the US is the best place on earth to live.
Funny that you use the term "more equal" given that was how Orwell described the ubiquitous end point of socialialism...each and every time it is tried. Yes socialism is the ultimate jealousy based ideology as socialist always want others to pay their way. As the old saying goes, socialism is great until it runs out of other people's money.
Life is never about equal outcomes, but it should be about equal opportunity. Don't misinterpret this for not supporting safety nets for those who can't do for themselves, but too much "help" to the point of generational dependency (which in the US can be traced directly back to LBJ and the start of the welfare state policies) which had the exact opposite effect than intended. Urban communities have been devastated by decay and family disintegration. Last week three separate political polls (one left wing and two middle of the road) in the US put black support for Trump at 34%, up from 8% three years ago. After five decades of liberal policies that have seen inner cities rotting away and stagnate job opportunities black voters are seeing the difference in their pocket books and lives.
Hard as it seems to comprehend at times, reality and results are often counterintuitive. Rather than being sickened by alternate ideas to yours perhaps think about the bigger picture and compare results apples to apples? In truth compassionate conservative policies make life better for all. Winners and losers are not picked but rather people contribute which is good for the wallet and the soul.
Firstly, to discount the likes of Scandinavia is disingenuous because you know full well that those are the closest examples we have to Socialism in action. What I advocate in practice is yes, a capitalist economy but with strong social values of excellent public services and strong personal rights.
These systems are indeed more equal in practice. They have gone out of their way to invest in services and put forward legislation re working conditions to make it so
Trickle down in this sense works but only because the water trickling down has been correctly channelled
Trickle down in a "hit and hope" style is a travesty. It does not help those who need help. Hence working families in the UK relying on food banks, an issue which you dodged.
Equal opportunity is just bluster unfortunately. Yes we need it of course but a lot of people dont get it. If you grow up in a tough crime ridden estate you need GENUINELY equal opportunities and that means spending a lot more on schools, especially out of hours provision, and especially on supporting apprenticeships.
Lastly, the US style demonisation of socialism as envy is barely worth an answer. it is about compassion, fairness and working together. For example, not allowing someone to be financially ruined by medical bills.
