British Politics

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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:50 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:Or.... the economy is doing ok despite of the brexit shitstorm that they, much, much more than any other party, are responsible for

How much better would the economy be doing now if the Tories hadn't shat their pants, scared of Farage, and called the referendum in the first place?

How much better would it be doing if they hadn't chosen May as prime minister and she hadn't then, for political reasons, called an early GE and f***ked her own Commons majority?

How many tens of billions of pounds have this disgusting party cost our economy in the last ten years through their inside politics and incompetence?


Or how about if the party that stood on a Leave platform had actually voted in parliament to Leave? did you forget that massive lie?

You make up figures and then accuse everyone else of using "scare tactics" ... everyone sees through the propaganda, 500m extra NHS costs that's utter bollocks ... Labour left the country bankrupt and with a mountain of loans .... did they learn? No, this time around they now want to borrow an extra 400 billion ... it's feckin' insane

It's like the family who goes mad with the credit card, dad cuts it up and tightens the family spending to pay off the debt, now the family have been offered five new credit cards .... should they immediately max them all out, even though they have no extra income? just how f***ked up will they be when those bills come due?


1) Others are using scare tactics, not me. Youre a liar.

2) I dont support Labour, as youve been told before. Dishonest.

3) Tories are planning huge borrowing, but you dont want to mention that. Dishonest.

4) Youre an expat who cant bare to live here

In summary, youre an irrelevant, dishonest liar who hates this country.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:52 pm

Tory supporters with no f***ing answers to this country's problems as per usual
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:53 pm

UFGN wrote:Firstly, I dont use Labour soundbites, I use my eyes to read articles and my brain to think "hmmm, I wonder whats in it for them, what will the Americans want as part of a free trade agreement?"


The problem is and what they mean by Labour Soundbites is you can't keep using "What if's" as fact, Labour say "They'll sell off the NHS" ......... now is that really going to happen or is it typical opposition slander which happens in every Parliament?

You say Free trade agreement but your still using the argument that existed with No Deal.

We don't need America that way anymore, we have a deal with the EU, that has cut any reliance on the US to almost today's current levels, if they were going to sell off the NHS then why have they not done it already?

We already use US pharmacy companies today.

Now do I have some concerns especially with Standards? yes, but could a next Labour Gov't simply put those in, in 4 years ............ yes!

This is part of the power of democracy, we the public can kick the Tories out and demand standards, demand no more privatisation, its Labours manifesto to maintain Public Services so we know they'll do it and there will be no EU laws to stop us making whatever changes we want.

Unlike America we have a Socialist Party to fall back on, stop acting like a Labour Gov't can't reinstate things........... and that's even if a Con Gov't get these things past Parliament to begin with.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:00 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:Firstly, I dont use Labour soundbites, I use my eyes to read articles and my brain to think "hmmm, I wonder whats in it for them, what will the Americans want as part of a free trade agreement?"


The problem is and what they mean by Labour Soundbites is you can't keep using "What if's" as fact, Labour say "They'll sell off the NHS" ......... now is that really going to happen or is it typical opposition slander which happens in every Parliament?

You say Free trade agreement but your still using the argument that existed with No Deal.

We don't need America that way anymore, we have a deal with the EU, that has cut any reliance on the US to almost today's current levels, if they were going to sell off the NHS then why have they not done it already?

We already use US pharmacy companies today.

Now do I have some concerns especially with Standards? yes, but could a next Labour Gov't simply put those in, in 4 years ............ yes!

This is part of the power of democracy, we the public can kick the Tories out and demand standards, demand no more privatisation, its Labours manifesto to maintain Public Services so we know they'll do it and there will be no EU laws to stop us making whatever changes we want.

Unlike America we have a Socialist Party to fall back on, stop acting like a Labour Gov't can't reinstate things........... and that's even if a Con Gov't get these things past Parliament to begin with.


Ah the usual DG response.... dont worry if they f**k it all up, we can just vote them out!

How long do you reckon it will take to turn round that oil tanker? You realise we all die right? That every year wasted by bad political decisions is time lost for ever?

I absolutely will use what ifs. Just like everybody else does. Otherwise why dont you support Corbyn and let him bring in his socialist utopia? What could go wrong? Youre not allowed to predict anything remember..... and if it all goes wrong you can just....... vote them out!!
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:09 pm

If you want to base your views on maybe's and what if's that's fine, but don't expect the rest if us to swallow that line because by doing that you can say any groundless opinion and what? you expect us to believe it as gospel.

So I could tell you Labour will ruin our economy and borrow to the hilt, putting us back 10 years and according to your rules you have to believe it.

No, I'll make my mind up at the end of this Election campaign, I'll wait for the opposition and media to dig up "real dirt" with sources before I choose a position thanks, seeing as that's their job.

You know no more than we do at this stage because the picture isn't complete, all you have that we don't is an agenda.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:17 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:If you want to base your views on maybe's and what if's that's fine, but don't expect the rest if us to swallow that line because by doing that you can say any groundless opinion and what? you expect us to believe it as gospel.

So I could tell you Labour will ruin our economy and borrow to the hilt, putting us back 10 years and according to your rules you have to believe it.

No, I'll make my mind up at the end of this Election campaign, I'll wait for the opposition and media to dig up "real dirt" with sources before I choose a position thanks, seeing as that's their job.

You know no more than we do at this stage because the picture isn't complete, all you have that we don't is an agenda.


Your whole argument is, and always is, based on "nobody knows"

No, but equally I'm not stupid and I can form opinions based on what I believe will happen

You on the other hand will not vote, as youve already said, and then flip flop in a reactionary way to things as they happen. Your way is hopeless. Mine has purpose.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:20 pm

Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:31 pm

Rockape wrote:Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?


That in my opinion is an argument laced with political undertones

The ultimate implication being that unless the Lib Dems win the election or as near as damn it, the voters have "once again voted for brexit"

It is never, ever straightforward re who votes for what party. You might vote tactically, or based on tradition. You might particularly hate / like the local candidate.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:40 pm

UFGN wrote:
Rockape wrote:Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?


That in my opinion is an argument laced with political undertones

The ultimate implication being that unless the Lib Dems win the election or as near as damn it, the voters have "once again voted for brexit"

It is never, ever straightforward re who votes for what party. You might vote tactically, or based on tradition. You might particularly hate / like the local candidate.


Well, not really....Boris has clearly stated on numerous occasions that he wants to get it done and move on. So you'd think the leavers would vote for him, wouldn't you? However, both you and me are remainers, so do we both vote Lib Dem regardless of constituency/tradition/candidate?
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:45 pm

Rockape wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Rockape wrote:Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?


That in my opinion is an argument laced with political undertones

The ultimate implication being that unless the Lib Dems win the election or as near as damn it, the voters have "once again voted for brexit"

It is never, ever straightforward re who votes for what party. You might vote tactically, or based on tradition. You might particularly hate / like the local candidate.


Well, not really....Boris has clearly stated on numerous occasions that he wants to get it done and move on. So you'd think the leavers would vote for him, wouldn't you? However, both you and me are remainers, so do we both vote Lib Dem regardless of constituency/tradition/candidate?


I am torn between voting for the party I actually support and the one most likely to beat the Tories. But that situation isnt unique to now or Brexit. Its something I always struggle with because of our corrupt FPTP system.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:12 pm

Rockape wrote:Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?


I’m a remainer Conservative.

As I said earlier, I’m only voting Conservative because I don’t want commie Corbyn and his cretinous crew ruining the economy, encouraging the feckless to continue living useless lives, and giving state secrets to his terrorist friends.

If Labour had someone sensible like Hillary Benn at their helm I’d seriously consider voting for them. As they don’t, I won’t.

If the Liberal Democrat’s had a chance of winning in my constituency I’d vote for them. But they don’t.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:16 pm

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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:31 pm

Rockape wrote:Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?


Interesting because my vote will go on what the party's plan is for Brexit, not if they are In or Out.

I don't want Out at any cost and I don't want In to just ignore the electorate "unless" the Outs are doing such stupid sh*t I think we're just safer staying in to keep Brexit out of their hands.

So in this case right now I'm completely neutral, campaign has barely begun, all I have is as you've pointed out, their starting block positions.

I suppose in saying that my own starting block is not In or Out its ........... what's best for this country.

Regarding ......... voting power of the British public, our sovereignty, our product standards, NHS, economic wealth.

Some of those are at odds, what if our sovereignty comes at the expense of economic wealth, or voting power comes at the cost of product standards?

Hence why I need to hear the arguments of which UFGN calls sitting on the fence, making an informed decision is NOT sitting on the fence, its making a decision based on the evidence / facts presented, only idiots or people with agendas do the opposite.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:53 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:Anyway...................................................................................................................................what I REALLY wanted to discuss (and nobody is!) was the non party political issue that is Brexit. Cos I am a bit baffled by this to be honest. IF this election is all about Brexit, then we aren't voting for the party on the basis of left or right, we are voting to either get Brexit done (Torys), stop Brexit (Lib Dems) or something rather vague in the middle (Lab).

Sooooo........on that basis, will you be voting on whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, or ignoring the whole issue and sticking with the party you like best?


Interesting because my vote will go on what the party's plan is for Brexit, not if they are In or Out.

I don't want Out at any cost and I don't want In to just ignore the electorate "unless" the Outs are doing such stupid sh*t I think we're just safer staying in to keep Brexit out of their hands.

So in this case right now I'm completely neutral, campaign has barely begun, all I have is as you've pointed out, their starting block positions.

I suppose in saying that my own starting block is not In or Out its ........... what's best for this country.

Regarding ......... voting power of the British public, our sovereignty, our product standards, NHS, economic wealth.

Some of those are at odds, what if our sovereignty comes at the expense of economic wealth, or voting power comes at the cost of product standards?

Hence why I need to hear the arguments of which UFGN calls sitting on the fence, making an informed decision is NOT sitting on the fence, its making a decision based on the evidence / facts presented, only idiots or people with agendas do the opposite.


Youve already heard all the arguments. Youve already said you wouldn't be voting.

Now you say you'll weigh it all up. Whatever.

You came out hard for brexit then couldn't be bothered to vote on that either

Youre not so much sitting on the fence as avoiding declaring support for anything so you can avoid criticism for anything

Id say more than sitting on the fence, you use the fence as a safety blanket
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:41 pm

General election 2019: Boris Johnson 'does not understand' deal trade checks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50352678
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