British Politics

[UFGN]

Phil grow up lad.

I'm saying that if someone is capable of voting they are subject to criticism for their vote.

Very simple. If you want to excuse the feckless that's fine. But it's clear that the real reason for your protestations, is that you know damn well leave would have lost the vote if you hadn't had the support of people who didn't bother to educate themselves of the consequences.

So the insults have started. I thought it wouldn't be long.

It's quite simple. You are saying that people should have a significant understanding of every aspect of the subject on which they are being asked to vote, and I am saying they shouldn't.

Every person of voting age is equal, so is their vote, and each should be respected.

It's called democracy.

Its a question of aspiration. I aspire for an educated electorate and hold individuals accountable for their actions

You clearly don't. Your motives are clear

Don't try to dress it up. You think certain people should be excluded from the electorate.

Why don't you write to Mr Cable with your views. Perhaps he could table a motion on the subject. Starting perhaps with a debate in Parliament for the removal of voting rights for people with severe impairments. After that it could move on to people with mental health problems, learning disabilities, the elderly, people without any academic qualifications...

And their we have it. The final huge lie from a serial liar who can't win an argument without lying

I never once said anyone should be denied the vote, in fact I expressly stated that they shouldn't

Now delete your f***ing account

[Phil71]

Phil grow up lad.

I'm saying that if someone is capable of voting they are subject to criticism for their vote.

Very simple. If you want to excuse the feckless that's fine. But it's clear that the real reason for your protestations, is that you know damn well leave would have lost the vote if you hadn't had the support of people who didn't bother to educate themselves of the consequences.

So the insults have started. I thought it wouldn't be long.

It's quite simple. You are saying that people should have a significant understanding of every aspect of the subject on which they are being asked to vote, and I am saying they shouldn't.

Every person of voting age is equal, so is their vote, and each should be respected.

It's called democracy.

Its a question of aspiration. I aspire for an educated electorate and hold individuals accountable for their actions

You clearly don't. Your motives are clear

Don't try to dress it up. You think certain people should be excluded from the electorate.

Why don't you write to Mr Cable with your views. Perhaps he could table a motion on the subject. Starting perhaps with a debate in Parliament for the removal of voting rights for people with severe impairments. After that it could move on to people with mental health problems, learning disabilities, the elderly, people without any academic qualifications...

And their we have it. The final huge lie from a serial liar who can't win an argument without lying

I never once said anyone should be denied the vote, in fact I expressly stated that they shouldn't

Now delete your f***ing account

If you'd just admit you were wrong to raise the subject in the first place we could all move on.

[UFGN]

Its a question of aspiration. I aspire for an educated electorate and hold individuals accountable for their actions

You clearly don't. Your motives are clear

Whilst it might be aspirational it's hard to see how that happens, whilst the electorate is informed by The Sun - Facebook - YouTube what possible chance do they have of ever getting a balanced view? Even the BBC seems to have gone off the rails.

There is a movement to reduce the voting age to 16? but isn't that in direct contradiction with the ability to have an informed electorate. Now I know it's generalizing but I feel pretty safe in saying the average 25 year old has a far better grasp on politics, and indeed life in general, than the average 16 year old ... but when it comes to voting is that relevant?

Equally would an Einstein or a Hawkins be more able to make an informed voting decision than a Sapphire (google her) ... but again when it comes to voting is that relevant?

Unless you believe in the "Animal Farm" way of thinking, where all voters are equal just some more equal than others, then we can't have a society where your age, your wealth, your education, or indeed your IQ determine who can and who can't vote ... personally I can see benefits in the voting age moving to 21 or even 25 ... but that runs the risk of disenfranchising millions of people so maybe not.

In a free democratic society every vote has to be equally valid ... we just have to live with the fact that social media, internet algorithms, and loud mouth tossers are always going to sway the weak minded. It's up to the government to crack down on fake / biased / illegal electioneering and that can't happen soon enough.

Sadly maybe that horse has already bolted, look at the US where a staggering 62,984,828 voted for Trump ... just how gullible must an electorate become to fall for his media manipulating smoke and mirrors show? and just how far behind them is the UK?

You can't and shouldn't stop people from voting

You must and can teach people the importance of voting

You must and can do everything to inform the public on issues through quality journalism and debate

You can and should punish and restrict the proprietors of dishonest news sourses. The details of that are a different debate

You can and should criticise people regardless of their background for poor voting decisions.

[Power n Glory]

Can you guys put aside the fake out rage for the poor.

Most people here are more than capable of understanding what this vote meant but chose to ignore the possible consequences. To this day, there are few individuals still in in denial about what a no deal Brexit could look like. We have had the debate.

It's only until we're knee deep in the shit will people see the consequences. Some of you have no business pleading ignorance for 'poor people'. Stop it.

[EliteKiller]

Can you guys put aside the fake out rage for the poor.

Most people here are more than capable of understanding what this vote meant but chose to ignore the possible consequences. To this day, there are few individuals still in in denial about what a no deal Brexit could look like. We have had the debate.

It's only until we're knee deep in the shit will people see the consequences. Some of you have no business pleading ignorance for 'poor people'. Stop it.

Utter crap .... most people (including most MP's) haven't got the first clue about what BREXIT might mean ... you certainly don't.

There are more and more sanctimonious pricks like you who claim to know exactly what will happen ... but that's bollocks ... nobody can predict the outcome of BREXIT all that people can do is wildly speculate ... and they've done that in spades

Project Fear ... Project blame the foreigner ... project bullshit

The wider and more interesting debate is how in light of the BREXIT fiasco it's very apparent that all voters need to be more informed, that's not by self appointed internet experts like you, but through a non-biased media with debate conducted in a civil manner and openly available to all ... it's a pipe dream that we need to turn into reality ... it has feck all to do with being rich or poor.

[Power n Glory]

Can you guys put aside the fake out rage for the poor.

Most people here are more than capable of understanding what this vote meant but chose to ignore the possible consequences. To this day, there are few individuals still in in denial about what a no deal Brexit could look like. We have had the debate.

It's only until we're knee deep in the shit will people see the consequences. Some of you have no business pleading ignorance for 'poor people'. Stop it.

Utter crap .... most people (including most MP's) haven't got the first clue about what BREXIT might mean ... you certainly don't.

There are more and more sanctimonious pricks like you who claim to know exactly what will happen ... but that's bollocks ... nobody can predict the outcome of BREXIT all that people can do is wildly speculate ... and they've done that in spades

Project Fear ... Project blame the foreigner ... project bullshit

The wider and more interesting debate is how in light of the BREXIT fiasco it's very apparent that all voters need to be more informed, that's not by self appointed internet experts like you, but through a non-biased media with debate conducted in a civil manner and openly available to all ... it's a pipe dream that we need to turn into reality ... it has feck all to do with being rich or poor.

Truth hurts hence the emotional outburst. Don't try to project your ignorance on others just speak for yourself if you didn't know what Brexit meant. Also, please don't lecture me on anout having a 'civil debate'. I'll let that 'prick' comment slide because you're obviously upset and this touched a nerve. Speak to me when your calm or not at all.

[EliteKiller]

Truth hurts hence the emotional outburst. Don't try to project your ignorance on others just speak for yourself if you didn't know what Brexit meant. Also, please don't lecture me on anout having a 'civil debate'. I'll let that 'prick' comment slide because you're obviously upset and this touched a nerve. Speak to me when your calm or not at all.

Don't let it slide I stand by it 100% ... your response just doubles down on your arrogance ... explain how, when nobody else knows, you alone can say exactly what the results of BREXIT are going to be ...

I freely admit I don't know what will happen when and if BREXIT finally occurs, anyone who claims they do is quite simply a bare faced liar. Whilst your 'opinion' on what the outcome may be could indeed prove to be correct, it's still just that, your opinion.

The problem on both sides of the debate, and across the world today, is the sheer lack of tolerance for anyone whose opinions are not 100% aligned with your own.

I have no problem with Remainers or Leavers what I have is an issue with the arrogant pricks on both sides who won't even consider that just maybe the other side have a valid opinion, that's the attitude of a small minded tool .... we see that attitude more and more, on this thread you epitomize it "Power and Glory is right and all knowing, everyone who disagrees is wrong" ... what's more if you don't agree then it's not because you have a valid opinion, it's because you're ignorant.

Have I summed up your position correctly?

[Arsenal Tone]

So to all those who voted 'leave' and have always said they knew what they were voting for, will we get 'no deal' or an ammended version of May's 'shite deal'? Cos apparently you knew which one it was when you voted

[Power n Glory]

Truth hurts hence the emotional outburst. Don't try to project your ignorance on others just speak for yourself if you didn't know what Brexit meant. Also, please don't lecture me on anout having a 'civil debate'. I'll let that 'prick' comment slide because you're obviously upset and this touched a nerve. Speak to me when your calm or not at all.

Don't let it slide I stand by it 100% ... your response just doubles down on your arrogance ... explain how, when nobody else knows, you alone can say exactly what the results of BREXIT are going to be ...

I freely admit I don't know what will happen when and if BREXIT finally occurs, anyone who claims they do is quite simply a bare faced liar. Whilst your 'opinion' on what the outcome may be could indeed prove to be correct, it's still just that, your opinion.

The problem on both sides of the debate, and across the world today, is the sheer lack of tolerance for anyone whose opinions are not 100% aligned with your own.

I have no problem with Remainers or Leavers what I have is an issue with the arrogant pricks on both sides who won't even consider that just maybe the other side have a valid opinion, that's the attitude of a small minded tool .... we see that attitude more and more, on this thread you epitomize it "Power and Glory is right and all knowing, everyone who disagrees is wrong" ... what's more if you don't agree then it's not because you have a valid opinion, it's because you're ignorant.

Have I summed up your position correctly?

Amazing. Include yourself when you speak of 'arrogant pricks'. I could present my own views on Brexit or post articles and videos on experts that get paid to do economic and political studies for a living. You'd still dismiss the information as scaremongering, proclaim them to be 'bare faced liars' as you've just done but somehow you're arguing for tolerance of other people's views. Do you see the contradiction?

[Royal Gooner]

So to all those who voted 'leave' and have always said they knew what they were voting for, will we get 'no deal' or an ammended version of May's 'shite deal'? Cos apparently you knew which one it was when you voted

They voted based on what Cameron told them. Out of the EU and out of the single market and in addition to control immigration which was how it was sold. Any form of deal that kept us tied somehow was barely talked about

[EliteKiller]

Amazing. Include yourself when you speak of 'arrogant pricks'. I could present my own views on Brexit or post articles and videos on experts that get paid to do economic and political studies for a living. You'd still dismiss the information as scaremongering, proclaim them to be 'bare faced liars' as you've just done but somehow you're arguing for tolerance of other people's views. Do you see the contradiction?

If I ever claim to 'know' the answers for Brexit they by all means include me as an arrogant prick ... I apologise if that has happened but I make no apology for challenging others either Leaver or Remainer when they make unsubstantiated claims ... Brexit is an unknown we should never have got sucked into, we are and thus we need to resolve it, but there's more that's broken than just Brexit.

My biggest issue is that Brexit isn't really the problem, it's just the manifestation of Parliament's inability to govern the country. Immigration, education, policing, housing, employment, social services, GDP, balance of trade, fiscal budgets, etc. these are all things that we elect our MPs to govern in order to use our taxes to achieve the best for us on our behalf, it's how representative democracy is supposed to work ... yet for decades Labour, Tory, Independent, whoever have just screwed it up time after time ...

So why did we vote Leave? well purely in my opinion we voted Leave because we were sick and tired of our Parliament feckin' things up ... we used Brexit as a protest vote, 17m people weren't really blaming Johnny foreigner they were rejecting the UK parliament, the very MP's who had called a referendum because they couldn't handle running the country themselves. When to parliament's horror that protest vote came out Leave they still could have made it right, the people gave parliament the opportunity to handle an orderly Brexit? guess what they fecked that up as well ....

Leave / Remain it actually doesn't matter all that much ... until we elect a Parliament that can put the best interests of its people first, not their party or personal self interest, then be we in Europe or out of Europe it will make little difference, we will still be one of the world's wealthiest countries providing some of the world's poorest services to its people. If we were a PLC we'd have gone bankrupt years ago, providing piss poor services at top prices to the paying customer? no thanks ....

Brexit is a wake-up call ... the million who marched yesterday ... were they simply marching for a single issue? or were they middle England marching to take back our country from a corrupt, deficient, inadequate political system which simply no longer works ... when a third of the electorate don't vote because they believe their vote makes no difference, you know it's time for a change ...

Brexit? frankly who cares ... it's our whole feckin' broken democracy that needs fixing, and when you look at all the political bullshit going on around this planet all supposedly done in the name of 'the people' you can see we're not alone ....

[Arsenal Tone]

So to all those who voted 'leave' and have always said they knew what they were voting for, will we get 'no deal' or an ammended version of May's 'shite deal'? Cos apparently you knew which one it was when you voted

They voted based on what Cameron told them. Out of the EU and out of the single market and in addition to control immigration which was how it was sold. Any form of deal that kept us tied somehow was barely talked about

So 'no deal' then?

[Reverend Gooner]

Amazing maneovers from the Tories. Fake a coup to take the headlines away from the march. Well played.

[DiamondGooner]

Amazing maneovers from the Tories. Fake a coup to take the headlines away from the march. Well played.

No one wants to take the hot seat.

What we need is a mandate which means another vote because nothing is going to get through without a clear mandate.

We had a mandate for Leave but the politicians and even May herself has muddied the waters of what Leave means.

Even the Hard Brexiteers screwed up because they said they could get a deal from the EU so they left the option of a straight No Deal in trouble from the get go.

Ridiculous situation.

[Phil71]

She won’t quit.

They’ll have to drag her kicking and screaming out of number ten.