British Politics

[jayramfootball]

Polls have been swinging in favour of independence in recent months. It's starting to feel more and more likely. One of the key factors for the "No" vote in 2014 was the UK (and therefore Scotland's) membership of the EU, so obviously that's changed and the majority of Scots wanted to remain. I think everything that's happened since has just alienated a lot of Scottish people and now independence doesn't seem quite so intimidating given they're being dragged out of the EU against its will anyway.

Scotland will be very pleased in a couple of years. The EU is destined to fail. Why do you think they are pushing so hard for a 'level playing field'? they know damn well they can't compete.

[DiamondGooner]

I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians acting like saboteurs for the EU.

I get Labours misgivings on allowing Boris to break with laws agreed with the EU but they must understand that the EU is doing that themselves and have no qualms about doing it.

If Labour tries to hamstring the Con's tooth and nail while they're trying to position themselves against the EU who are doing nothing but still trying to tell us what to do, even now telling us "Britain must maintain economic and Animal rights standards in line with EU" then the British public will again see Labour as anti-Britain and they'll lose yet another election.

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

[UFGN]

I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians acting like saboteurs for the EU.

I get Labours misgivings on allowing Boris to break with laws agreed with the EU but they must understand that the EU is doing that themselves and have no qualms about doing it.

If Labour tries to hamstring the Con's tooth and nail while they're trying to position themselves against the EU who are doing nothing but still trying to tell us what to do, even now telling us "Britain must maintain economic and Animal rights standards in line with EU" then the British public will again see Labour as anti-Britain and they'll lose yet another election.

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

Of course, its all about Labour right?

Five former prime ministers have come out and said this is out of order

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen. Two politicians from different ends of the spectrum with vast experience.

[DiamondGooner]

I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians acting like saboteurs for the EU.

I get Labours misgivings on allowing Boris to break with laws agreed with the EU but they must understand that the EU is doing that themselves and have no qualms about doing it.

If Labour tries to hamstring the Con's tooth and nail while they're trying to position themselves against the EU who are doing nothing but still trying to tell us what to do, even now telling us "Britain must maintain economic and Animal rights standards in line with EU" then the British public will again see Labour as anti-Britain and they'll lose yet another election.

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

Of course, its all about Labour right?

Five former prime ministers have come out and said this is out of order

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen. Two politicians from different ends of the spectrum with vast experience.

"I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians" that includes Sajid and other Cons but Labour are the main block against it.

This is about how they move forward, if they are nipping at the Gov'ts heels at every turn while they're trying to get the EU to act right then that's not a good look.

Spare us your "Always Labour" are you saying they aren't taking the lead on this?

Can't even accuse people of stuff they're actually doing without you moaning.

[Royal Gooner]

Miliband is a wally. That's why he lost control of the Party. They could see he was un-electable. MInd you, the bloke they chose to replace him was even less so.

They're generally un-electable as a Party. It's why they've only held power for 13 of the last 41 years.

If Boris Johnson was somehow the leader of the opposition he would be deemed unelectable as well

He’s just never pictured as it in the media. He’s a scruff, he’s incoherent, a poor speaker, he has no retort whenever he’s put on the spot, he’s had howlers in PR (being stuck on a zip line, rugby tackling a 8 year old, head butting an ex german footballer in the nads) and is a guy who doesn’t even acknowledge the kids he has with several women

But he’s not “un-electable”?

It's because he's got a reputation as a likable buffoon in the eyes of the public, that's how he managed to win election twice as Mayor of London in a mostly Labour city.

[Royal Gooner]

I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians acting like saboteurs for the EU.

I get Labours misgivings on allowing Boris to break with laws agreed with the EU but they must understand that the EU is doing that themselves and have no qualms about doing it.

If Labour tries to hamstring the Con's tooth and nail while they're trying to position themselves against the EU who are doing nothing but still trying to tell us what to do, even now telling us "Britain must maintain economic and Animal rights standards in line with EU" then the British public will again see Labour as anti-Britain and they'll lose yet another election.

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

Of course, its all about Labour right?

Five former prime ministers have come out and said this is out of order

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen. Two politicians from different ends of the spectrum with vast experience.

But both also considered the worst Prime Ministers of their parties in recent memory.

[UFGN]

I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians acting like saboteurs for the EU.

I get Labours misgivings on allowing Boris to break with laws agreed with the EU but they must understand that the EU is doing that themselves and have no qualms about doing it.

If Labour tries to hamstring the Con's tooth and nail while they're trying to position themselves against the EU who are doing nothing but still trying to tell us what to do, even now telling us "Britain must maintain economic and Animal rights standards in line with EU" then the British public will again see Labour as anti-Britain and they'll lose yet another election.

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

Of course, its all about Labour right?

Five former prime ministers have come out and said this is out of order

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen. Two politicians from different ends of the spectrum with vast experience.

"I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians" that includes Sajid and other Cons but Labour are the main block against it.

This is about how they move forward, if they are nipping at the Gov'ts heels at every turn while they're trying to get the EU to act right then that's not a good look.

Spare us your "Always Labour" are you saying they aren't taking the lead on this?

Can't even accuse people of stuff they're actually doing without you moaning.

Well, seeing as Starmer said just two days ago he was willing in principle to support the government, I think its fair to say that youre talking out of your bumhole as per.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-boost- ... ional-law/

[jayramfootball]

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen.

Wow - you actually wrote that down?
Not listening to utter morons like Major and Brown - two of the biggest idiots to ever lead our country - is far more sensible.
Maybe only Tony Blair and Theresa May reached levels of stupidity beyond those two buffoons.

The country is sick to the stomach of remainer BS and will back Boris in this latest, last ditch, attempt by traitors like John Major and Gordon Brown to support the EU over our own country.

You remainers should just sit down and be quiet. You've already lost the debate many times over.

[Callum]

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen.

Wow - you actually wrote that down?
Not listening to utter morons like Major and Brown - two of the biggest idiots to ever lead our country - is far more sensible.
Maybe only Tony Blair and Theresa May reached levels of stupidity beyond those two buffoons.

The country is sick to the stomach of remainer BS and will back Boris in this latest, last ditch, attempt by traitors like John Major and Gordon Brown to support the EU over our own country.

You remainers should just sit down and be quiet. You've already lost the debate many times over.

I'll never understand why Brexiteers demand Remainers "sit down and be quiet". Did the Leavers sit down and be quiet when they lost the referendum in 1975? Do the opposition stop opposing the Government when they lose an election? Does democracy demand the winning side get to do what they want, with no criticism or opposing view presented?

Ultimately the referendum was won by a slim margin and a huge amount has happened since, much of it a farce. Brexiteers got their wish, we are leaving the European Union, yet many of them still act as if they're the victims despite this whole thing being a mess of their own doing. Countless lies were told, promises broken, and many people were duped into thinking that their lives were made worse by the big bad EU and not numerous Conservative governments neglecting and abusing them.

Even with this current situation, it's somehow the EU's fault. The Government negotiated a deal, they signed that deal and passed it through Parliament, and now months later are threatening to renege on that deal because they've now decided they don't like it. Can you imagining how Brexiteers would be frothing at the mouth about if the EU had pulled the same stunt? It's an absolute joke.

Brexiteers have gotten their way and the UK is becoming the diminished world power Remainers claimed they would be prior to the referendum. The Government are lucky that Trump is in power across the pond because if he wasn't, the UK would be the country the rest of the world would be laughing at instead.

Oh, and you want to know what extremist comments are, jayram? Calling those who disagree with your opinion on this matter as "traitors", one of which was a former Conservative PM for god's sake.

The only traitors are those who knew full well what damage this decision would do to the United Kingdom and did so anyway for political and/ or financial gain. You know that Johnson was pro-EU his entire life until it became politically advantageous for him to turn, don't you? The man will say and do anything to advance his career. He's delivered Brexit and will likely be off before he can be held accountable for his action, and your lot will be celebrating a "victory" as the UK continues its decline as the rest of the western world looks on with a mixture of confusion and pity.

Oops, looks like I called someone a traitor too. I guess we'll be extremists together.

Kills me to say it, but the UK has created a mess totally of its own doing. My only hope now is that Scotland is able to jump ship and gain its independence just as England sinks beneath the waves.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

Let's schedule a fox hunt DG! Save the free range chickens!

[DiamondGooner]

I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians acting like saboteurs for the EU.

I get Labours misgivings on allowing Boris to break with laws agreed with the EU but they must understand that the EU is doing that themselves and have no qualms about doing it.

If Labour tries to hamstring the Con's tooth and nail while they're trying to position themselves against the EU who are doing nothing but still trying to tell us what to do, even now telling us "Britain must maintain economic and Animal rights standards in line with EU" then the British public will again see Labour as anti-Britain and they'll lose yet another election.

I am for animal rights etc but it is not for the EU to tell us how to conduct ourselves anymore, that is for our politicans / opposition and the public to decide, not them.

Of course, its all about Labour right?

Five former prime ministers have come out and said this is out of order

If John Major and Gordon Brown are both speaking up against it, I think people should listen. Two politicians from different ends of the spectrum with vast experience.

"I see the UK Gov't still has a lot of politicians" that includes Sajid and other Cons but Labour are the main block against it.

This is about how they move forward, if they are nipping at the Gov'ts heels at every turn while they're trying to get the EU to act right then that's not a good look.

Spare us your "Always Labour" are you saying they aren't taking the lead on this?

Can't even accuse people of stuff they're actually doing without you moaning.

Well, seeing as Starmer said just two days ago he was willing in principle to support the government, I think its fair to say that youre talking out of your bumhole as per.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-boost- ... ional-law/

Is he the only member of the Labour party?

Because I saw Rachel Reeves on the BBC and Milliband in Parliament saying Labour won't support it for the reasons I stated, and they said that in the last 48hrs.

So hush your beak.

[DiamondGooner]

Did the Leavers sit down and be quiet when they lost the referendum in 1975?

Callum, what the UK voted for in 1975 wasn't what it became.

We voted for a trade deal and to bring our economies closer together for easier trade, they didn't vote for a single currency, EU army or to have the EU over the decades introduce red tape galore and regulatory demands on every nation.

Go look back at the original agreement and what it is today, its not even recognisable.

That's why Leave gathered momentum through the late 90's and 2000's.

Fact is Callum people on your side of the fence simply don't respect Democracy, which is why we're in the state we're in now.
America has gone next level and can't even accept their democratically voted in President, they've been trying to impeach him since day one, that's never happened before.
Then you have BLM / Antifa mobs demanding defund the police or they'll cause civil unrest when the States occupants haven't voted for this.

This is what happens when too much socialism rises in a capitalist / democratic country, the two won't abide the other.

[EliteKiller]

I'll never understand why Brexiteers demand Remainers "sit down and be quiet". Did the Leavers sit down and be quiet when they lost the referendum in 1975? Do the opposition stop opposing the Government when they lose an election? Does democracy demand the winning side get to do what they want, with no criticism or opposing view presented?

Probably because you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding about why we ended up with Brexit ...

The UK joined the EC (as it then was) 1st January 1973, the first referendum was held in 1975 - perhaps the most telling quote from the time came from De Gaulle who opposed UK membership when he said that "a number of aspects of Britain's economy, from working practices to agriculture" had "made Britain incompatible with Europe" and that Britain harboured a "deep-seated hostility" to any pan-European project. He was of course prophetically correct.

The 1975 referendum focused on the UK joining a 'Common Market' a group of countries who combined their Trading Power both in an internal market and with external Trade Deals. Things went downhill almost at once, The question of individual sovereignty was part of the pre-joining negotiations detailed in official Foreign and Commonwealth Office documents. It listed among areas of policy in which parliamentary freedom to legislate will be affected by entry into the European Communities, Customs duties, Agriculture, Free movement of labour, services and capital, Transport, and Social Security for migrant workers. The document concluded that it was advisable to put the considerations of influence and power before those of formal sovereignty, a fatal error that decades later eventually led to Brexit.

The UK then opted out of the newly formed European Monetary System (EMS)

The "Common Market" we had signed up to was systematically changed, Firstly as a result of the Maastricht Treaty, the European Communities became the European Union on 1 November 1993. This reflected the evolution of the organisation from an economic union into a political union. As a result of the Lisbon Treaty which entered into force on 1 December 2009, and the Treaty on European Union or TEU, as it is now known, in updated form, and finally the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union or TFEU.

The Common Market went from a Trading Group to Federal States all without the agreement of the UK population ... that insidious creeping change is what Brexit rejected in 2016 and again in 2019 ... in 1975 the losing side accepted the referendum result as in 2020 the losing side should accept the Brexit result.

Sure they can start a campaign to re-join just as a campaign to leave began way back in 1973 - but they can't and shouldn't try and block the will of the majority, that's simply not how democracy works.

[Callum]

Did the Leavers sit down and be quiet when they lost the referendum in 1975?

Callum, what the UK voted for in 1975 wasn't what it became.

We voted for a trade deal and to bring our economies closer together for easier trade, they didn't vote for a single currency, EU army or to have the EU over the decades introduce red tape galore and regulatory demands on every nation.

Go look back at the original agreement and what it is today, its not even recognisable.

That's why Leave gathered momentum through the late 90's and 2000's.

Fact is Callum people on your side of the fence simply don't respect Democracy, which is why we're in the state we're in now.
America has gone next level and can't even accept their democratically voted in President, they've been trying to impeach him since day one, that's never happened before.
Then you have BLM / Antifa mobs demanding defund the police or they'll cause civil unrest when the States occupants haven't voted for this.

This is what happens when too much socialism rises in a capitalist / democratic country, the two won't abide the other.

My point is that after a democratic referendum, the side that lost still campaigned against the decision and ultimately got their way years later. Winning an election or referendum doesn't mean that that's, it's over, no more discussion or opposing points will be had.

Ultimately the UK voted to leave, whether that be a hard, no deal Brexit or an EEA type deal that still kept us in the customs area and free trade and movement of people continued. It was insanely vague and people had many different reasons for voting, and it was won by a slim margin.

Do you really believe Farage and the ERG would have shut up and stopped calling for the UK to leave the EU if they had lost? Of course they wouldn't, and that was their democratic right. Yet when people who voted to Remain (or those who voted Leave and since changed their mind) continue to express an opposing opinion they are labeled traitors and enemies of democracy. That's not how it works.

We've left now, anyway, and I'm resigned to the fact that the country is set for a very difficult period and diminished power on the global scale. I'm also resigned to the fact that despite all the lies and broken promises, and that this was the decision of the UK, the EU will still get the blame.

[UFGN]

Did the Leavers sit down and be quiet when they lost the referendum in 1975?

Callum, what the UK voted for in 1975 wasn't what it became.

We voted for a trade deal and to bring our economies closer together for easier trade, they didn't vote for a single currency, EU army or to have the EU over the decades introduce red tape galore and regulatory demands on every nation.

Go look back at the original agreement and what it is today, its not even recognisable.

That's why Leave gathered momentum through the late 90's and 2000's.

Fact is Callum people on your side of the fence simply don't respect Democracy, which is why we're in the state we're in now.
America has gone next level and can't even accept their democratically voted in President, they've been trying to impeach him since day one, that's never happened before.
Then you have BLM / Antifa mobs demanding defund the police or they'll cause civil unrest when the States occupants haven't voted for this.

This is what happens when too much socialism rises in a capitalist / democratic country, the two won't abide the other.

Oh do be quiet you berk

You are basically saying that you want those on the left to shut up and not be heard, while Tories preside over the tearing down of industries that have afforded working class people a living for generations, decimate social housing, bully disabled people, and oversee a doubling in homelessness, all while INCREASING the national debt..... before covid even came along

Youre welcome to not give a f**k about anyone except number one but dont expect me to

You havent got a clue what democracy actually means.