British Politics

[Pudpop]

How would it be an affront to democracy if both options in the poll are pro-Brexit?

Also, democracy is never a once in a lifetime thing. The whole point behind having elections every few years is because people change their minds about things. Democracy is about the will of the people, not the will of the people 2/20/200 years ago.

If hard Brexit is the will of the people in Britain right now then a second referendum will reflect that. What's undemocratic about that?

[UFGN]

How would it be an affront to democracy if both options in the poll are pro-Brexit?

Also, democracy is never a once in a lifetime thing. The whole point behind having elections every few years is because people change their minds about things. Democracy is about the will of the people, not the will of the people 2/20/200 years ago.

If hard Brexit is the will of the people in Britain right now then a second referendum will reflect that. What's undemocratic about that?

Remain warned that it would be almost impossible to achieve restricted freedom of movement and also free trade

It was labelled project fear

Turns out it was true

[EliteKiller]

How would it be an affront to democracy if both options in the poll are pro-Brexit?

Also, democracy is never a once in a lifetime thing. The whole point behind having elections every few years is because people change their minds about things. Democracy is about the will of the people, not the will of the people 2/20/200 years ago.

If hard Brexit is the will of the people in Britain right now then a second referendum will reflect that. What's undemocratic about that?

Nothing at all .... just as it wasn't when we joined the EU ... In two years time (2020) let's hold a referendum by which time the population will have learnt the real impact of Brexit, not just the theoretical bollocks put out by politicians and the media today ...

The United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community (as it then was) on 1 January 1973 with Denmark and Ireland. This proved controversial at the time. The Labour party initially sought renegotiation of membership. This was toned down to requiring a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain part of the Community. This referendum was duly held in 1975 with a 67% vote in favour of continued membership.

[DiamondGooner]

https://youtu.be/7eoDwvl0QGk

If I were May, I'd just make hard and soft Brexit deals and show it to the public. Once everyone knows what the deals are, hold another referendum before March 2019. That way people know exactly what they're voting for. That way if politicians don't want to vote for a certain deal they'll be accountable to the public.

Probably an oversimplification on my part but it's better than the circus happening right now

................ here's the trick though.

Its not what May can do, its if the EU let her have an agreed Soft Brexit in the first place, which they won't.

So all May can actually show and offer with conviction is "No Deal" because the EU can't designate that for us .......... this is what Remain / EU want, why you say? that's madness you say?

Its because Labour and the Remain Cons i.e Parliament have already said "We will vote down a No Deal" effectively leaving us with no other offer on the table bar ............ Yes you guessed it, to stay in the EU.

And unlike last year where the EU were saying "You can't change your mind, we won't let you back in" its a complete fkin lie, even Macron said just the other day "England should change its mind and stay" etc.

These tactics are fkin despicable, but when billions and the strength of the EU are on the line he shocks me when people like Zedie don't realise what their capable of by trying to force us to remain.

............. he acts like there isn't a major propaganda campaign in effect, its called Project fear and if you don't think its real you literally don't know how the world works.

Remember the rest of the world isn't in the EU yet their planes land, they have running water, they have a finance sector etc Remain make out like our country will fall off a cliff.

I don't support that because its all lies, I don't believe everything Leavers say either but at least their more realistic with their predictions.

[EliteKiller]

How would it be an affront to democracy if both options in the poll are pro-Brexit?

Also, democracy is never a once in a lifetime thing. The whole point behind having elections every few years is because people change their minds about things. Democracy is about the will of the people, not the will of the people 2/20/200 years ago.

If hard Brexit is the will of the people in Britain right now then a second referendum will reflect that. What's undemocratic about that?

Because it's impossible to put any options onto a poll until those options actually exist ... the EU will never sign off on three or four options for the UK to vote on .... how can you create an argument about something that you must know will never happen? maybe you should get a job with the Daily Mail

We voted on the only criteria there was available In or Out ...

Soft Brexit, Hard Brexit, Fluffy Brexit .... any feckin' Brexit you want are just bullshit terms created by politicians and the media .... none of these so called 'options' physically exist ....

Come March if we're lucky there will be a single agreed deal for parliament to vote on ... and it will still be a straight Yes or No ...

[Royal Gooner]

And it will be either "Yes" to approve the deal or "No" for us to leave with no deal.

There will be no backtracking option where we stay in.

[UFGN]

https://youtu.be/7eoDwvl0QGk

If I were May, I'd just make hard and soft Brexit deals and show it to the public. Once everyone knows what the deals are, hold another referendum before March 2019. That way people know exactly what they're voting for. That way if politicians don't want to vote for a certain deal they'll be accountable to the public.

Probably an oversimplification on my part but it's better than the circus happening right now

................ here's the trick though.

Its not what May can do, its if the EU let her have an agreed Soft Brexit in the first place, which they won't.

So all May can actually show and offer with conviction is "No Deal" because the EU can't designate that for us .......... this is what Remain / EU want, why you say? that's madness you say?

Its because Labour and the Remain Cons i.e Parliament have already said "We will vote down a No Deal" effectively leaving us with no other offer on the table bar ............ Yes you guessed it, to stay in the EU.

And unlike last year where the EU were saying "You can't change your mind, we won't let you back in" its a complete fkin lie, even Macron said just the other day "England should change its mind and stay" etc.

These tactics are fkin despicable, but when billions and the strength of the EU are on the line he shocks me when people like Zedie don't realise what their capable of by trying to force us to remain.

............. he acts like there isn't a major propaganda campaign in effect, its called Project fear and if you don't think its real you literally don't know how the world works.

Remember the rest of the world isn't in the EU yet their planes land, they have running water, they have a finance sector etc Remain make out like our country will fall off a cliff.

I don't support that because its all lies, I don't believe everything Leavers say either but at least their more realistic with their predictions.

DG you've scraped the extremes of bullshit

Remain always tried to explain how hard a deal would be to broker. Hard line leavers have always wanted no deal. The warnings from the remain side were labelled project fear

....now our inability to broker a deal is an EU conspiracy and part of project fear

Wow.

[Phil71]

The EU were never going to make it easy for such an important partner to leave with a deal of having their cake and eating it. If they did, who would be next?

My view was always that we should be either completely in or completely out. What is the point of anything else?

As it has turned out, it seems that our decades of being in has resulted in us being conjoined to the EU like a huge mass of tangled, creeping vine becomes attached to a tree. You simply cannot remove it without some sort of damage. Any deal must be carefully examined to see if that damage can be limited.

[DiamondGooner]

DG you've scraped the extremes of bullshit

Remain always tried to explain how hard a deal would be to broker. Hard line leavers have always wanted no deal. The warnings from the remain side were labelled project fear

....now our inability to broker a deal is an EU conspiracy and part of project fear

Wow.

What are you on about? I mean't Project fear saying the country will come to a stand still, not that the EU would offer us a good deal, I was always skeptical they would I don't class that as Project Fear.

I completely agree we need to drop any deal with the EU and have full leave, then for e.g (because its in the interest of both sides) we can agree a Canada style free trade deal or some other arrangement which is mutually beneficial ............ if not then Europe doesn't get to sell their goods to us at low prices, pricing them out the market which is what they fear more than anything.

No Deal or Remain do not require us to do any deals with the EU, thus solving the problem thus making it a very easy transition and decision.

The reason its become a fkin mess is because Remainer politicians are arguing over a middle ground which doesn't exist because they're trying to pump the breaks on us leaving before they can cook up a 2nd referendum, Theresa May is part of that, why do you think she's clinging onto Chequers when its dead? it has 0% chance of being accepted by anyone yet she won't drop it ........... its stalling tactics.

The game has become clear now, both Leave and Remain want to force an empasse, then the real battle will look like this .......... Leave will call out Parliament to accept No Deal and if they don't they'll be ousted as traitors to the British people, Remain are planning on having their chance to vote down No Deal saying "This is not a deal people voted for, May needs to get a deal" but there will be no deal so if there's no No Deal accepted ......... that leaves us sitting in the EU still.

You see no politicians had the stomach to cook up a workable Soft Brexit plan, its too much work for these c*nts and tbf how do you get an agreement with 27 nation states?

Soft Brexit is IMPOSSIBLE and people are starting to become aware of that now.

Its No Deal or Remain ........... everything inbetween is just noise.

[Phil71]

There's a lot of political shenanigans going on in the UK using Brexit as an excuse.

Labour say they won't vote for the Chequers plan. My guess is they won't back the government on any sort of Brexit deal, - with their long term view being to put the option for another referendum in their manifesto. Keir Starmer let it slip at their party conference. They'll use that as a potential vote winner, and it will be a huge one.

[DiamondGooner]

There's a lot of political shenanigans going on in the UK using Brexit as an excuse.

Labour say they won't vote for the Chequers plan. My guess is they won't back the government on any sort of Brexit deal, - with their long term view being to put the option for another referendum in their manifesto. Keir Starmer let it slip at their party conference. They'll use that as a potential vote winner, and it will be a huge one.

............. and Leave won't agree to any deal either unless its nothing but a free trade deal with no or minimal ties, this is all without including the EU, who will never get all 27 member states to agree to pass anything as they too want Britain to reverse and stay in.

So the question is ............ now this is all obvious that Soft Brexit cannot be passed, wtf is Theresa May playing at ffs??

My guess is this, she know's chequers is dead but has to keep up the charade for two reasons, if she bails on chequers she'll be left with No Deal or Remain and she doesn't want No Deal (as a Remainer herself) but she can't be seen to be in line with Remain as it goes against everything she has said since she took office.

In a nutshell .......... cluster fk.

However, I like where this is going, hear me out ................

Remain is better than Chequers as we keep all the benefits and keep a say, No Deal is also better than Chequers as that's what the vote actually was plus if we're going to leave we may as well take back full control and make our own deals.

So fk em, let the blood spill in Parliament and give us a clear answer, however and this is just a fact, if Remain manage to reverse the Referendum British politics will be damaged beyond repair.
There's no way Remain pull this off and things go down quietly, Democracy will be ousted as a farce and that will have consequences.

[Phil71]

There's a lot of political shenanigans going on in the UK using Brexit as an excuse.

Labour say they won't vote for the Chequers plan. My guess is they won't back the government on any sort of Brexit deal, - with their long term view being to put the option for another referendum in their manifesto. Keir Starmer let it slip at their party conference. They'll use that as a potential vote winner, and it will be a huge one.

............. and Leave won't agree to any deal either unless its nothing but a free trade deal with no or minimal ties, this is all without including the EU, who will never get all 27 member states to agree to pass anything as they too want Britain to reverse and stay in.

So the question is ............ now this is all obvious that Soft Brexit cannot be passed, wtf is Theresa May playing at ffs??

My guess is this, she know's chequers is dead but has to keep up the charade for two reasons, if she bails on chequers she'll be left with No Deal or Remain and she doesn't want No Deal (as a Remainer herself) but she can't be seen to be in line with Remain as it goes against everything she has said since she took office.

In a nutshell .......... cluster fk.

However, I like where this is going, hear me out ................

Remain is better than Chequers as we keep all the benefits and keep a say, No Deal is also better than Chequers as that's what the vote actually was plus if we're going to leave we may as well take back full control and make our own deals.

So fk em, let the blood spill in Parliament and give us a clear answer, however and this is just a fact, if Remain manage to reverse the Referendum British politics will be damaged beyond repair.
There's no way Remain pull this off and things go down quietly, Democracy will be ousted as a farce and that will have consequences.

I can see the EU turning the deal down hoping it will cause May to resign, create mayhem in the Tory Party, and provoke a General Election that might lead to another referendum.

What does the EU have to lose?

[DiamondGooner]

.............. and in the mean while Remain keep pumping out that judgement day is upon us.

The EU can see what's at play, of course they won't accept any deal while they can see on the horizon our politicians stating out loud "We will vote down No Deal" any deal they make grants us safe passage out of the EU and that's even if they could get all member states to agree.

Soft Brexit is impossible.

As I said, there is no honour in politics anymore, tbf there was little before but at least people respected the fundamental principles of democracy.

Now the rules are "If we don't like the outcome we'll try to get it reversed" that's the bratty attitude of the millennial generation we now live in.

Project Fear indeed.

[EliteKiller]

The EU don't want the UK to leave, it's very clearly not in their interests and could spell the beginning of the end for the EU .... on that basis they will do everything they can to feck around with the UK's decision to leave .... you can't blame them for that ....

We are getting closer and closer to the stage where May (or someone) will just need to say ... EU FECK OFF ... we voted leave and we're going ... negotiate a deal now, during, or after we leave who cares, the EU members know and the UK knows that deals will need be reached ...... it's in everyone's interest so it will get done ...

Project fear, EU bullying, Chequers scenario ... all a load of bollocks ....

Enough of the bullshit just get it done .....

[DiamondGooner]

The EU don't want the UK to leave, it's very clearly not in their interests and could spell the beginning of the end for the EU .... on that basis they will do everything they can to feck around with the UK's decision to leave .... you can't blame them for that ....

We are getting closer and closer to the stage where May (or someone) will just need to say ... EU FECK OFF ... we voted leave and we're going ... negotiate a deal now, during, or after we leave who cares, the EU members know and the UK knows that deals will need be reached ...... it's in everyone's interest so it will get done ...

Project fear, EU bullying, Chequers scenario ... all a load of bollocks ....

Enough of the bullshit just get it done .....

The amount of anti- leave in parliament will not allow it, these people have never had to make decisions for a whole country before, they're happy letting the EU decide everything for them, pat them on the back and wipe their arse.

That's why the UK is in a state, we have a bunch of millennial mongs coming through into parliament, they are petrified at the thought of truly running a country, they're all ideology and pass the buck when it comes to hard stuff.
Some of Labours politicians are completely inept, when the younger ones appear on question time its fkin cringe worthy, they are def not qualified mentally.

I don't wholly trust the likes of Jacob Rees Moggs, I can imagine he wants some sort of private run utopia similar to America where capitalism runs riot but there's no doubt that he's a capable man, he's clever, a leader and know's how the world works.

The only time I can see myself backing Labour is if the Cons threaten the NHS which they're already doing to a certain extent.

We're are truly one big fkin mess.

We're either going to Remain and become a socialist far left gulag or we'll become some sort of Right wing corporate tax haven because the tempered middle ground which usually balances these two sides out has been carved up and alienated mainly by the left

Either way its going to get very weird come March 2019.