British Politics

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Re: British Politics

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:28 am

Zedie wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:I grew up from being a rebel college kid to being a responsible adult ;)

Will respond to Zedie's novel soon. Has less fact than a Corbyn speech


Or a Theresa May speech?


Given the fact that literally every one of her speeches is "strong and stable" , i guess you're right, there is zero fact in that speech.

However, I don't believe GA has, or is, defending Theresa May, so I'm not sure of the pertinence of your post.

Care to explain?
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Re: British Politics

Postby 22-0 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:34 pm

nigel farage for king.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Zedie » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:52 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:
Zedie wrote:
GoonerAlexis wrote:I grew up from being a rebel college kid to being a responsible adult ;)

Will respond to Zedie's novel soon. Has less fact than a Corbyn speech


Or a Theresa May speech?


Given the fact that literally every one of her speeches is "strong and stable" , i guess you're right, there is zero fact in that speech.

However, I don't believe GA has, or is, defending Theresa May, so I'm not sure of the pertinence of your post.

Care to explain?


GA is defending conservative policy and putting them forward as the best option to move the country forward. All while fully ignoring the absolute cluster f**k that has occurred over the last year and the last 10 years under the conservatives (what they have done in the whole for society).

Through all of his posts, he can't really point to one real benefit the Tories have offered to any faction of society other than bug business, nor can he point to any concrete reason why anyone in their right mind would consider the Tories as the safe hands to guide us through this critical period of our nation.

He's mostly resorted to daily mail sound bites about terrorist sympathizing, while avoiding giving an opinion on why he thinks the Tories banding in with the DUP and potentially regressing the positivity that has come out of the good Friday agreement, simply to hold onto power and why that's worth sticking with the conservatives.

All of this summed up by yet another barb about Corbyns speeches being based on fantasy.

Tell you what's fantasy:

Walking away to wto if we don't get our way
Ignoring the ramifications of leaving the single market
A 97% drop in applications from nurses from the EU since the brexit vote (I don't need to explain to you what that means in real terms to millions of your countrymen and women).
Putting the good Friday agreement at risk.
Tarring the conservative party with the DUP stink for generations.
Thinking they can destroy the NHS
Thinking they can target the elderly when they are the core Tory voters, while also having a chance of harnessing the booming youth vote.
Claiming 'everything's fine' when you've just thrown away an iron clad majority and forced yourself into an impossibly weak negotiating position.
Going to the f***ing queen to ask to form a minority government with an informal link to the DUP before you've even opened talks with the DUP lool

Why don't you tell me why the conservatives are suitable from your perspective?

GA might be extending the lengths of his posts and avoiding abusive terminology which in itself is commendable, but make no mistake, GA is trolling on overtime here.

Either that or he's so entrenched in what the gutter press has fed him, he can't see the wood for the trees.
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Re: British Politics

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:58 pm

Zedie wrote:Slavery
Womens rights
The minimum wage
Gay marriage
Employment rights
etc

Please dont sit here and tell me to be subservient to a government just because things have always been the way they have. Thats bullshit. They havent and there are infinite examples of people making meaningful changes in society through standing up. You may be resigned to following whatever a Tory government reckons is in the elites best interests, but id rather not.


All of which are examples of huge injustices. Benefit scroungers scrounging on the state fund being finally taken to task is hardly injustice. This isn't a developing country. Every kid is provided with enough BY the government to ensure they have a good enough start to life to actually change the direction of their life. You want to cry about injustice? Go to an actual third world country where poor people can not change their life because they have no access to education, housing, or even money for food via benefits, where kids are forced to work just to be able to eat hand to mouth.
An excellent example of Theresa Mays desperation in the face of reality of Brexit. The Nissan debacle was caused directly because of Brexit. She threw tax payers money directly at Nissan to stop them from leaving the country temporarily, so that the reality of Brexit wouldnt kick in and people could see that actual jobs are going to be lost with a hard Brexit.

Nissan? What about every other large conglomerate across all other sectors pitches up to 10 Downing Street to demand the same treatment? We cant keep bailing out massive companies with tax payer money, its just not sustainable. So this is what the conservative solution is for our finite tax income pool? Use it to keep foreign companies paid so they can feed their profits back into their own lands?

No thanks.


Big foreign companies with nasty profits that are also keeping an entire town employed. What percentage of Sunderland is working in Nissan? Calculate the numbers and see how f***ing scary the prospect of Nissan leaving is. This is compassionate Conservatism. What you're recommending is exactly what Thatcher would do, let the market take its course. I thought the left hated Thatcher's policies?
OK mate. Thatcher saved the country by selling off the countries assets to her elite mates in the top 1%.

Assets horribly mismanaged by the previous Labour government, who hadn't generated a profit in years, assets that were costing the state money it didn't have, with strikes every second week by government employees. Those assets. Her "elite mates"? She wasn't exactly born to royalty, was she, our great Thatcher.

She also sold off the government housing stock to kick start what we now know as the great British housing crisis. Once you do it, theres no turning back. Corbyn hasnt mentioned trade unions, youre just projecting some fantasy thats rattling around Tory eco chambers right now because you lot cant bare to think of the cluster f**k facing your personal image of the strong and stable party.

Malpass and Murie (1999) point out that subsidies paid by local authorities to cover council house tenants had fallen (in nominal terms) from £2.1
billion in 1980 to £1.2 billion by 1990.

In other words, an absolutely massive success of a strategy by Thatcher, that brought clear savings, and improved the conditions for those living in them.

Trade Unions? Here?

More directly beneficial policies including allowing unions to represent apprentices and making it easier to strike by bringing in online balloting were also adopted.

A secret list of policies requested by unions obtained by this newspaper reveals huge areas of overlap with party's plan for government.

Whole chunks of Labour’s leaked manifesto appear to have been almost copied and pasted from proposals put forward by unions.

Labour promises to nationalise Royal Mail and prisons, protect Sunday trade laws, allow councils to open schools and extend freedom of information laws were all requested by the unions.

Promises to consider allowing online balloting for strike action – making it much easier to gain approval for industrial action – and overturn new Tory rules on unions also feature.

The similarity between the wording of union demands and the policies that Labour is putting forward to the country is stark at times.

The Communication Workers Union [CWU], which represents postal workers, proposed “a Post Bank owned by the Post Office and providing a full range of banking services”.

Labour’s draft manifesto offers “a Post Bank owned by the Post Office and providing a full range of banking service.”

GMB, one of the country’s biggest unions, suggested that Labour should “ensure that all workers enjoy current time-related employment rights from day one”.

So lol.... there
PL started after Thatcher loooool be serious mate. I guess Thatcher is responsible for the internet, WIFI and electric cars too. Starting to think you are on a wind up.

Tax on highly paid footballers before and after Thatcher please?



Tax to the elite fell and income to the coffers rose under Thatcher because she literally sold off billions of pounds worth of national assets. A lot like Theresa May tried to force the NHS into selling off its assets to pay for MRI machines and other essentials. Thats the truth of it, stop pretending like Thatcher turned lead into gold and didnt take a massive shit on anyone that wasnt affluent.


Comprehension issue? I said
GoonerAlexis wrote:So.... tax rate fell, yet intake rose, why? Because companies invested more in the economy, and helped the long term economic plan for the hard working people of this country.


Intake is tax intake. Lower tax= more companies. If more companies * Lower tax > less companies * more tax, tax intake rises, which they did. But point completely missed by you.

Thatcher did that? Well, guess who's the only person in the UK to privatise an NHS hospital. Currently Mayor of Manchester, I doubt he's Tory.

Thatcher helped those with small businesses. She grew the country. If she was so shit, she wouldn't be elected three times.

I know perfectly well what Hamas

The Labour leader said in 2009 the group “should be removed from this list”, according to a report by BBC’s monitoring arm at the time.

The so-called “proscribed list” is made up of groups that the Home Secretary believes are "concerned in terrorism”.

Sinn Fein

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to try and play it off like Corbyn is backing them is just sad really.

Proof he did back the IRA. He still refuses to say, "I condemn the IRA", instead hiding behind, "I condemn all killing", a massive difference

Youre a Tory continuing to whine about Corbyn talking to both sides and making statements equal to 'hey, both of you have done terrible things in the past, but lets get down to discussion to stop this bitter war", which you find appalling, but have somehow excused the fact that the Tories have invited an organisation that only last week, were endorsed by an organisation that executed a father in front of his child in NI.

I'm not excusing or supporting Theresa May who's made a massive mistake overall. As for "peace", Corbyn and co did not try for peace. The government tried for peace, Corbyn wanted the UK to unilaterally pull their troops out and give in. That was his solution to the IRA, and to the Falklands

Tony Blair, the most right wing Labour PM in generations jumps into bed with the Republicans, to lie and illegally invade Iraq to kick off the Gulf War. Iraq destroyed, the Republican Guard mostly scatter to join informal shady organisations such as Al Quaida. Later, this splinters off into ISIS.

Long story short, the West has begun a chain events of destruction that have led us to people getting run over and stabbed on Westminster bridge. That youre in favour of a party that not only actually physically sides with domestic terrorist sympathisers, but also continues to sell billions of pounds of weapons to the country is the biggest funder of terrorism in Europe is beyond me. The Tories are literally continuing the cycle of shit that you as a Muslim are having to deal with because of some nut cases who claim your religion and you point fingers at Corbyn for trying to get people around the table to end this cycle by means other than bombs or guns which clearly DO NOT WORK.

Good luck to you.

What absolute bullshit is this. Is this where we pretend Saddam was this nice cuddly guy and the Middle East was all swell prior to Blair? Newsflash, Saddam was just as violent as ISIS to Shias, to Kurds and to every other group that wasn't Sunni. He used chemical bombs, spied on everyone, and ran a violent rogue state. Maybe there weren't WMD's, but that doesn't mean it was poor to remove Saddam. The mistake was not removing Saddam, the mistake was people demanding the army to be withdrawn without the government being fully formed. The mistake was forming a Shia government in Sunni territory, one of the most abysmal mistakes that could be made.

Similar with Assad here. Assad is a f***ing lunatic ready to kill every Sunni in the land, except his loyalists. Removing him would be right, and if he was replaced by a Sunni leader, there would be no ISIS type organisation rising there. Simple tip: Sunni leader->Sunni area, Shia leader-> Shia area.

As for Saudi, that's interesting, because they are funding terrorism in Pakistan, but ISIS are against Saudi as well. My bet is more an Iran/Qatar axis here. ISIS, interestingly, avoids attacking Assad areas. It sells oil to Turkey and also interestingly Iran.

The issue in the Middle East is not and never has been the West. The West makes it worse with their insane idiocies most of the time, yes, but it's a proxy war between Iran and Saudi. Trump has chosen a side, Saudi Arabia. If with his backing, Saudi win, terrorism ends in the Middle East. Funny, but the worst US president has accidentally gone about it the right way.

As for ISIS, the issue is very varied. Most radicalised people are party type Muslims who were Muslim in name only. I have yet to see anyone in the Muslim community who was very pious, prayed 5 times a day, etc, suddenly join ISIS and bomb people. It's always these partygoers who suddenly get radicalised. Many of them are found with alcohol which is banned. The issue here has been horrendous work by the police. Every attacker so far was reported either by the local mosque, their immediate family, or Muslim friends. No action taken. That's what you can blame Theresa May for, not Iraq, which was Labour's decision by the way.
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Re: British Politics

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:59 pm

Let's see who the Conservatives have helped
Rising employment
The minimum wage
Gay rights
Flexible zero hours contracts to help students earn
Smaller businesses booming due to lower tax.
Self employed people earning more
IT sector booming due to lower tax
Best of the cream of talent coming to UK universities due to Universities being well funded by Tuition fees.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Slick » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:40 pm

Are you guys disappointed that Trump cancelled his visit? Apparently he's afraid if he comes, people might say mean things about him.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu


Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.

The US president said he did not want to come if there were large-scale protests and his remarks in effect put the visit on hold for some time.
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:21 pm

Politics in Britain and in the US at the moment is a farce.

Supposed to be democratic lights of the world, not so much.

How is our democracy supposed to stay sane when even the winners are announced or treated as losers?

Despite peoples objections how can Trump be completely declawed by the American states / media and Theresa May basically looking like she's walking the plank?

You'd think they'd lost the elections.

My point is why should this be any different for Corbyn or Clinton if they were to have got into power? whoever is in power is supposed to be able to act on behalf of their voters, this is just not happening right now and we are descending into chaos.

for e.g we can't even start Brexit talks as our domestic politics is such a shambles.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:43 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Politics in Britain and in the US at the moment is a farce.

Supposed to be democratic lights of the world, not so much.

How is our democracy supposed to stay sane when even the winners are announced or treated as losers?

Despite peoples objections how can Trump be completely declawed by the American states / media and Theresa May basically looking like she's walking the plank?

You'd think they'd lost the elections.

My point is why should this be any different for Corbyn or Clinton if they were to have got into power? whoever is in power is supposed to be able to act on behalf of their voters, this is just not happening right now and we are descending into chaos.

for e.g we can't even start Brexit talks as our domestic politics is such a shambles.


When they stop serving them and theirs, maybe it will change.

Guess it's what happens when institutionalised sociopathy is allowed to run rampant.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Zedie » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:04 pm

@ GA, I almost can't be arsed to respond to the wall of text you just posted, or to each point you've raised.

Most of it is exactly what I mentioned in previous points, historic complaining to avoid the reality that the conservatives and Tory voters don't want to face about their party right here, right now.

Re the benefits scroungers part, you're either trying to piss me off or you have lived such a sheltered life that you really don't know or understand what a vast portion of this country is going through and what lies ahead for them with continued Tory policies.

Re Nissan. Nice try skating around the very simple question as to how you think the economy will hold up when a lot of the conglomerates from different sectors ask for the same deal. Where's the money coming from? If the conservatives still feel the need to hide the specifics, it speaks volumes. Volumes that you don't want to think about.

Re Iraq. You once again have skirted around the original point, where it's clear that Iraq was the definable point where militant extremeism in the form we know today, on our shores was created.

I'd like to know why you haven't been championing invading Saudi Arabia, Darfur, chechneyia or any other region whose state seems fine with barbaric behaviour towards it's citizens. Probably because you know deep down Britain has no real business invading countries an masse. This whole part of your response made it clear you didn't read what I wrote. I know Tony Blair was the man in charge, I was pointing out that it's obvious bombing f**k out of places every so often clearly isn't solving anything,

Regarding what the conservatives have achieved, you should have added rising employment to the zero hour contract point. You strike me as the sort of person that doesn't come into contact with people that actually want full time work to support their families but are restricted to taking a handful of hours here and there. Consider attempting to organise your life not knowing where or how much you'll be paid month to month. How do you apply for a mortgage on that basis?

Simple questions you won't want to answer with logic or realism. Easier to just label people benefits scroungers.

You posted an inch column you found from a random news source. Ok. Yet you can't provide a coherent answer why him respecting a minutes silence for a former linked terrorist organisation is worse than Thatcher condoning asylum for a murderous dictator in general Pinochet or that your party leader not only described the Sinn Fein equivalent in the form of the DUP as our great friends, but are forming a lose government with them.

Some homophobic creationists with links to organisations that executed someone literally a week ago in front of their child, then endorsed the party leader for this election.

You won't want to consider that it was discussion that eventually ratified the good Friday agreement and not military action.


You can try to compartmentalize May, saying she doesn't represent your party but do you really think Boris Johnson (lol) or David Davis is going to do the right thing and desolve this alliance and relinquish the thinnest of majorities? Ok mate.

Cameron pushed through gay rights against a back drop of serious opposition and for that he is commended tbf, but I'm sorry, this is far outweighed by the sheer fuckery that has been allowed to develop under the previous and current, the farce that was the brexit vote, the last GM and the inevitable GM we will eventually face because of this precarious position. Never mind the brexit negotiations.

I mean f***ing really....
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Re: British Politics

Postby Zedie » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:12 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Politics in Britain and in the US at the moment is a farce.

Supposed to be democratic lights of the world, not so much.

How is our democracy supposed to stay sane when even the winners are announced or treated as losers?

Despite peoples objections how can Trump be completely declawed by the American states / media and Theresa May basically looking like she's walking the plank?

You'd think they'd lost the elections.

My point is why should this be any different for Corbyn or Clinton if they were to have got into power? whoever is in power is supposed to be able to act on behalf of their voters, this is just not happening right now and we are descending into chaos.

for e.g we can't even start Brexit talks as our domestic politics is such a shambles.


Trump has the presidency, the Senate and the house under republican control. If he can't get legislation through that, can you seriously blame anyone else but trump?

Theresa May is possibly clinging onto a 2 seat majority by virtue of 10 constituencies in northern Ireland because she flopped in a GM she herself called even though she had an ironclad majority.

Again, can you really blame this on anyone else but her?

Two major nations controlled by two right wing (and in America's case hard right wing) parties have fully shit the bed so far during their time in power and it's going to get worse.

Have a look back at Obama's terms if you want to see what proper obstruction of democracy looks like. Republicans even vetoed their own idea because the democrats actually agreed with it for fucksake.

World politics has been a shambles for a long while mate.
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Re: British Politics

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:12 pm

Re-Benefits: Tory policies have created rising employment, rising wages, a minimum wage that is a living wage. People on benefits complain about lack of work, but there are thousands of opportunities for everyone. Indeed, IDS has done a superb job in his department to help the disabled claim benefits and also get into work and his Means testing has reduced the pressure of scroungers on the economy, thus allowing the government to serve those who are disabled even more. Labour point to food banks, but who funds the food banks to ensure that even the poorest have a nutritious diet?

Re-Nissan: We keep Tariff free access, as Theresa May has indicated. And you have no idea of the deal struck with Nissan and what benefits Nissan gets. It may be nothing more than an understanding of Tariffs being kept as low as possible.

Re-Iraq: The Middle East was hardly Heaven on Earth before this point, you know. OBL was still a terrorist, 9/11 happened, Al Qaeda was there.

No one is forced into Zero Hour contracts, they are there for people who are lazy and want the flexibility of working when they want. It's a beautiful system. If Labour is so against it, why do their MP's hire people on Zero Hour contracts?
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:18 pm

Zedie this is why I left the forum. Full of BS and peddlers of BS and mods who couldnt give a monkey's.

Popped back to see if thered been an improvement but no.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Zedie » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:12 pm

UFGN wrote:Zedie this is why I left the forum. Full of BS and peddlers of BS and mods who couldnt give a monkey's.

Popped back to see if thered been an improvement but no.


Only just saw this. Tbf I can't even be arsed to respond, it's too long to pick apart all the half truths and skewed perspectives from people who apparently live such sheltered lives.

Still, it's interesting to see just how far people will go to avoid the truth of the situation in front of them, especially someone who has switched from ardent left winger to entrenched right winger within a few weeks.

Must be pretty liberating to genuinely think the world is shit so buckle down and eat shit because things can't and won't ever change....
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:54 pm

Zedie wrote:
UFGN wrote:Zedie this is why I left the forum. Full of BS and peddlers of BS and mods who couldnt give a monkey's.

Popped back to see if thered been an improvement but no.


Only just saw this. Tbf I can't even be arsed to respond, it's too long to pick apart all the half truths and skewed perspectives from people who apparently live such sheltered lives.

Still, it's interesting to see just how far people will go to avoid the truth of the situation in front of them, especially someone who has switched from ardent left winger to entrenched right winger within a few weeks.

Must be pretty liberating to genuinely think the world is shit so buckle down and eat shit because things can't and won't ever change....


Its got nothing to do with politics. Hes a manipulative piss taker and it leaves me not giving a shit when nobody else on here can be bothered to do anything about it

A small minority are allowed to take the piss. I dont know why. Its unacceptable from my pov.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Callum » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:26 am

GoonerAlexis wrote:Let's see who the Conservatives have helped
Rising employment
The minimum wage
Gay rights
Flexible zero hours contracts to help students earn
Smaller businesses booming due to lower tax.
Self employed people earning more
IT sector booming due to lower tax
Best of the cream of talent coming to UK universities due to Universities being well funded by Tuition fees.

I don't have the energy to go into the other topics but it's worth remembering whilst Cameron's government introduced gay marriage legislation to the Commons, more Tory MPs voted against it than for it. It only passed because of support from Labour and the Liberal Democrats.
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