British Politics

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

Now that is rich. Maybe you have been manipulated and brainwashed? But that is hardly likely in either case, people form opinions and preferences based on their own well being and experiences.

Take away the anti-"social medicine" attack ads and the US health insurers $5Billion a year advertising budget and maybe you'll have a point.


Starbucks is successful because customers like them. I don't, but it is once again down to supply and demand and free markets. Are you suggesting we ban companies like Starbucks?

No, I very clearly just indicated that they should pay their f***ing taxes. Why would you go off on one about me wanting to "ban Starbucks"? Can you see how foolish that comment is? Explain to me please, HAVING READ WHAT I WROTE ABOUT STARBUCKS AGAIN, exactly what your problem is with it? I mean, I specifically, and in detail, debunked the myth of them creating wealth, and its like you haven't read it at all


No I think you are on a morality trip because you are misinterpreting my point. It's not about thinking or feeling something is acceptable or not, it is about reality. Every society has those who thrive and those who do not. Food banks are a great example of those who have helping those who do not for whatever reason. We simply have a different idea of what true compassion is. I am all about charity and social safety nets. I know that creating opportunity and allowing the human spirit to thrive works, creating dependency does not. Socialism does the latter.

You accuse me of misrepresenting your point and then go on to make exactly the same point. You worshiping at the ultar of Supply Side Jesus is not an explanation for just brushing aside this disgusting injustice. I reiterate to you again.... Working families. Rich country. Not enough money to eat. Something has gone wrong there and it is 100% the responsibility of the government to fix that problem



Three constants in life as we know it: Most people are good at heart. Life is not fair nor equal and never will be. One's life path is determined by the decisions we make and the obstacles we overcome.

I would never claim it is the responsibility of government to solve every problem for everybody. But to fix glaring injustices is fully their responsibility.

To claim that US citizens are cretins who don't know what they like in terms of healthcare is beyond condescension and simply makes my point about socialists claiming they know better for the rest of us. Like preachy vegans.

I asked you if you would ban Starbucks. Starbucks pays a lot of taxes in the US, I Googled it as 31% for 2018. In the UK they pay nothing in terms of corporate taxes because the law provides for it. Change the law through a democratic process then perhaps?

There is a massive difference between worshiping at the " ultar (sic) of Supply Side Jesus" and understanding basic economic principles and why they undisputedly have their origins and maintain their relevance because of human nature. Make that nature as a whole. I deal in reality, not utopian wishfulness. You failed to answer if you believe supply and demand is real or not in your mind.

"Something has gone wrong there and it is 100% the responsibility of the government to fix that problem" vs "I would never claim it is the responsibility of government to solve every problem for everybody." Huh? Which is it then?

What has "gone wrong" is always an unique situation to the individual. This lumping of people into homogenous stereotypical categories who seemingly have no control over their own lives is pretentious and has the effect of excusing the individual of any responsibility for their own circumstances.

Here is how it works best. We recognize that not everyone is created equally in terms of mental acuity, physical make up nor ability to make their way in life. We do however recognize that factors beyond one's control which restrict opportunity such as disability or racial disparity are addressed in law. That does not place the onus on the taxpayer to compensate people for bad decisions they make in life. We need to maintain incentives to succeed rather than condoning slothfulness. This is the reason Bill Clinton's workfare program succeeded.

In the USA the booming economy has reduced food stamp usage by over 2 million people in just two years. That is good for everyone would you not agree?

[Callum]

f*ck the tories

[Arsenal Tone]

https://twitter.com/Cassetteboy/status/ ... 78914?s=19

[Royal Gooner]

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/07/labours- ... -11406000/

Crazy Comrade Corbyn calling in his communist goons in Russia to try and play dirty then!

[UFGN]

Because of course, the "outrage" over the leak is clearly the story here.... not the content of the report

[EliteKiller]

So it's now been shown that the Russians supplied a selectively edited version of an interim report that reveals discussions were taking place with a major ally - shock and horror - the full report shows these discussions DID NOT involve the sale of the NHS, nor did they involve price-fixing for US Drugs, but hey let's go with the edited Russian version ... JC certainly did.

Gotta luv the crazy mixed up world where leaked edited documents are waved around as evidence, where some people are stupid enough to actually believe the misdirection they are fed, and that includes the guy who wants to lead the UK ... just think about that for a minute, no wonder JC gets a -72% rating on security issues, the man can't be trusted to tun a bath.

If anyone still falls for this stuff I've got a Nigerian friend who wants a word, just give him your bank details and he can make you very rich.

[Arsenal Tone]

I don't need a report, I heard Trump answer a question from the press about the NHS by saying 'everything is on the table'.

[UFGN]

I don't need a report, I heard Trump answer a question from the press about the NHS by saying 'everything is on the table'.

Labour have done themselves no favours by using this "for sale" phrase. The main issue in the medium term is supply of pharmaceuticals. The NHS already doesn't use its clout properly when buying medicines

I predict a very large increase in money spent on pharmaceuticals, particularly from US companies, after brexit.

[EliteKiller]

I don't need a report, I heard Trump answer a question from the press about the NHS by saying 'everything is on the table'.

So you believe everything Trump says? how about "I would not be interested in putting Britain's National Health Service (NHS) on the table during trade talks with the UK even if it was 'handed on a silver platter'" ..... was that true as well? It's far more recent so I guess it must be true?

Funny thing is Trump doesn't own a single pharmaceutical company, nor indeed do the US government, the US companies that supply medicines are all privately owned and can and already do tender for NHS contracts. It's entirely down to the NHS where they buy there drugs and how much they pay for them, it has been that way for years.

Here's a thing - I predict that like every decade in history prices will go up - the question of course is by how much.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

I don't need a report, I heard Trump answer a question from the press about the NHS by saying 'everything is on the table'.

So you believe everything Trump says? how about "I would not be interested in putting Britain's National Health Service (NHS) on the table during trade talks with the UK even if it was 'handed on a silver platter'" ..... was that true as well? It's far more recent so I guess it must be true?

Funny thing is Trump doesn't own a single pharmaceutical company, nor indeed do the US government, the US companies that supply medicines are all privately owned and can and already do tender for NHS contracts. It's entirely down to the NHS where they buy there drugs and how much they pay for them, it has been that way for years.

Here's a thing - I predict that like every decade in history prices will go up - the question of course is by how much.

As everyone knows by now, Trump speaks off the cuff about everything. He is remarkably consistent on some matters if you go back to his past interviews going back 20 or 30 years. On healthcare not so much. He ran for President in 1980 touting the NHS as the ideal system. The Brexit issue is not being fairly debated by either side.

The major drug companies are mostly internationals, many German and many US based. Pricing of drugs is all over the map depending where on the map you are. Pricing is based on the relative GDPs and income of the regions and countries as well as bulk buying such as the NHS does. (HIV meds in the US were shy high while the same drugs the US government is procuring through the PEPFAR programme for HIV in Africa was bought at a fraction of the cost but has cost the US taxpayer something like $100 billion since 1990. This year it was $7 billion I saw the other day.)

This is one area Trump has make some strides on, lowering drug prices in the US by putting pressure on the companies and allowing cross border buying from Canada where the same drugs are also far cheaper. The problem with trying to restrict the market in terms of drugs is that it disincentives the research into new drugs. Generics come on line after the patent expires and do not carry the research, clinical trial and testing costs. Then you have China and India reproducing the same drugs after a year or so and selling them far below what the originator can. It's a very tough call as people need the meds, the companies need to be able to fund them and setting a global price point is not practicable. I a sense the US consumer pays for the drugs that most of the rest of world benefits from. Something not many people think about.

[EliteKiller]

As everyone knows by now, Trump speaks off the cuff about everything. He is remarkably consistent on some matters if you go back to his past interviews going back 20 or 30 years. On healthcare not so much. He ran for President in 1980 touting the NHS as the ideal system. The Brexit issue is not being fairly debated by either side.

The major drug companies are mostly internationals, many German and many US based. Pricing of drugs is all over the map depending where on the map you are. Pricing is based on the relative GDPs and income of the regions and countries as well as bulk buying such as the NHS does. (HIV meds in the US were shy high while the same drugs the US government is procuring through the PEPFAR programme for HIV in Africa was bought at a fraction of the cost but has cost the US taxpayer something like $100 billion since 1990. This year it was $7 billion I saw the other day.)

This is one area Trump has make some strides on, lowering drug prices in the US by putting pressure on the companies and allowing cross border buying from Canada where the same drugs are also far cheaper. The problem with trying to restrict the market in terms of drugs is that it disincentives the research into new drugs. Generics come on line after the patent expires and do not carry the research, clinical trial and testing costs. Then you have China and India reproducing the same drugs after a year or so and selling them far below what the originator can. It's a very tough call as people need the meds, the companies need to be able to fund them and setting a global price point is not practicable. I a sense the US consumer pays for the drugs that most of the rest of world benefits from. Something not many people think about.

Well explained, I would add on the drug pricing front, Trump like Obama has had little success in reducing the price charged by US drug companies for 'patent' drugs, where he has benefited is the availability of generic drugs where patents have expired. The US and to a lesser degree the UK are stuck behind their own rules, neither US or UK companies (or the NHS) can buy drugs that aren't approved by the FDA or the MHRA. In Asia there are dozens of 'generic' drugs made of the same components (often in the same factories) as the patented drugs ... these sell at a tenth or even a hundredth of the price of the brand products. Generic drugs are exact copies of brand drugs - metformin for Glucophage or metoprolol for Lopressor the issue is that it takes the FDA ten years or more to approve these drugs whereas it takes the Asian authorities about six months.

The FDA's own data says that more than 50% of generic drugs are produced by the same brand-name companies that produced the original patented version ... it's the same tablet.

The UK needs to get away from the ridiculously stringent 1950's drug purchasing rules and allow the quicker acceptance of generic drugs, not fakes, not cheap copies, but the same drug just without big pharm's 5000% mark up.

Is this a fantasy? No it's been done "Aspirin" used to cost around 20p a tablet to the NHS and UK firms, this led to a lot of poor quality black-market fakes, now the generic version has been approved the still genuine product costs about 2p, there are almost no fakes in the UK market anymore as there is no profit in making them. Same drug same benefits just a tenth of the price.

FYI - The US hospitals still pay around ten times the UK price, that's because US insurance companies won't approve generics - it's all a con game and a monopoly neither Obama or Trump have yet broken. It is not coming to the UK not now not ever, we simply can't afford it.

[Phil71]

Recording released of Labour Shadow Health Secretary Jon Ashworth saying in conversation:

"...the situation for Labour is dire, and the party made a mistake by not getting rid of Jeremy Corbyn as leader,.."

"I've been going round these national places, it's dire for Labour… it's dire."

"I'm helping colleagues, banging on about the NHS for them but it's awful for them, and it's the combination of Corbyn and Brexit… outside of the city seats…it's abysmal out there…they can't stand Corbyn and they think Labour's blocked Brexit."

On the recording, Mr Ashworth is asked: If Mr Corbyn "got in would he be as bad as I suspect?"

"I don't know, on the security stuff, I worked in No 10, I think the machine will pretty quickly move to safeguard security, I mean the civil service machine. But it's not going to happen. I cannot see it happening."

When Mr Ashworth was asked on the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme about his comments that the situation for Labour was "dire" and the party had made a mistake by not getting rid of Mr Corbyn as leader, he insisted this was not his view.

He said he was "having a bit of banter" with his friend "because he was saying 'oh, the Tories are going to lose' and I was, like saying, 'no you're going to be fine', joshing as old friends do.


Yeah, OK Mr Ashworth. We believe you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50726592

[Royal Gooner]

Busted

[Rockape]

I'm still a bit undecided about my vote direction this coming Thursday.

I've obviously taken into consideration what I consider to be the following swaying points on the two main parties.

On the one hand the Conservative Boris Johnson is a bit of a rascal with the ladies and can sometimes bend the truth a bit, he’s also a bit posh.

And on the other hand..

Labours Jeremy Corbyn Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Opposed shoot to kill.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.

So it’s a tricky one really!

[jayramfootball]

^