British Politics

[DiamondGooner]

The elderly a much bigger problem than immigrants then? Retirement homes in Rwanda anyone?

Not that funny, but at least you now know you were talking shit.

No question the NHS needs more funding, but that has bugger all to do with immigrants or politicians imaginary cuts, and yes as you now concede, it has everything to do with us all living longer and the massive increase in medical and medication treatments now available.

FYI - Rwanda is lovely, there are many places a wealthy UK resident can retire and live like a King, why not try Rwanda?

And DG suggesting illegal immigrants are part of the problem is misleading because they are only a very small part of the problem (almost insignificant) compared to the ageing population?

(Question not statement).

Read what has been written ...... the answers you seek are all there if you just read.

Immigration, legitimate and legal, has always been an intrinsic part for all developing nations ... illegal immigration or unsanctioned economic migration has always been a disaster and rightly is illegal.

Legal immigration no problem indeed it should be encouraged, illegal migration send them back. If unsure then a three month wait in Rwanda seems a small price to pay for the LEGAL chance at a better life in the UK.

The NHS is fecked because the bleeding heart brigade believe in endless money trees and that everything should be free. Deep down we all know that remains just a fantasy, sadly some are just to wrapped up in political claptrap that they just won't accept it.

The magic money tree was available when the banks were f***ked though. Why is it real for them but mythical for the nhs?

Anyhow back on topic, is it misleading to suggest illegal immigrants are a big part of why the NHS is struggling? I think it is misleading.

My mum can't get an NHS dental appointment anywhere near her home..... in rural Suffolk

Immigration tho

GPs quitting and not being replaced where I live

Immigration tho

...........but no one said that tho.

See this is the problem, two things get mentioned in the same sentence and you guys run a mile with it creating the "blaming everything on immigrants" strawman.

My original statement is there in black and white, not sure how its been twisted into that I was isolating immigrants as the sole issue.

I also mentioned us having hard times due to price rises including the energy crisis .......... are you two going to frame that as me blaming immigrants for that also?

[UFGN]

The elderly a much bigger problem than immigrants then? Retirement homes in Rwanda anyone?

Not that funny, but at least you now know you were talking shit.

No question the NHS needs more funding, but that has bugger all to do with immigrants or politicians imaginary cuts, and yes as you now concede, it has everything to do with us all living longer and the massive increase in medical and medication treatments now available.

FYI - Rwanda is lovely, there are many places a wealthy UK resident can retire and live like a King, why not try Rwanda?

And DG suggesting illegal immigrants are part of the problem is misleading because they are only a very small part of the problem (almost insignificant) compared to the ageing population?

(Question not statement).

Read what has been written ...... the answers you seek are all there if you just read.

Immigration, legitimate and legal, has always been an intrinsic part for all developing nations ... illegal immigration or unsanctioned economic migration has always been a disaster and rightly is illegal.

Legal immigration no problem indeed it should be encouraged, illegal migration send them back. If unsure then a three month wait in Rwanda seems a small price to pay for the LEGAL chance at a better life in the UK.

The NHS is fecked because the bleeding heart brigade believe in endless money trees and that everything should be free. Deep down we all know that remains just a fantasy, sadly some are just to wrapped up in political claptrap that they just won't accept it.

The magic money tree was available when the banks were f***ked though. Why is it real for them but mythical for the nhs?

Anyhow back on topic, is it misleading to suggest illegal immigrants are a big part of why the NHS is struggling? I think it is misleading.

My mum can't get an NHS dental appointment anywhere near her home..... in rural Suffolk

Immigration tho

GPs quitting and not being replaced where I live

Immigration tho

...........but no one said that tho.

See this is the problem, two things get mentioned in the same sentence and you guys run a mile with it creating the "blaming everything on immigrants" strawman.

My original statement is there in black and white, not sure how its been twisted into that I was isolating immigrants as the sole issue.

I also mentioned us having hard times due to price rises including the energy crisis .......... are you two going to frame that as me blaming immigrants for that also?

The reason it's a sore point for me is because that lie IS routinely spun in the right wing MSM especially the Daily Mail. It's such a disingenuous and poisonous angle and yet it gets pushed every day.

The problem with GPs is spiralling out of control. You can't get an appointment unless youre very lucky. NHS dentistry is pure clownshoes now. Yet this government are not being held to account by the media. Starmer is right to raise it regularly in PMQs and it's so obvious they have no answer to him.

[DiamondGooner]

^ That's all fair and well but myself and EliteKiller have spent the last two pages trying to explain to PG that we're not saying illegal immigrants are "causing" the problem.

I've stated population vs spending, Elite has rightfully pointed out an ageing populace ........ which effectively is one and the same issue, population.

Illegal immigrants are part of the population and simply have no right to be here enjoying benefits including the NHS which are funded particularly for the citizens of this country ......... but again, we'd have an NHS issue whether they're here or not.

My point was hard times are coming across the board due to living costs, we can't be having an open door policy when we're already failing our own citizens, legal immigrants, not an issue, I'm specifically talking about illegals.

.......... the Rwanda project isn't for legal immigrants, hence why there shouldn't be opposition to it.

[Arsenal Tone]

It feels like the whole country has gone to shit. Where I live there is a hospital with a&e in a city and a smaller hospital on the outskirts with a&e 8am-8pm (which used to be 24hr).

A few years ago the smaller one would have next to no waiting time and the big one would be 3-4 hours at the most.

Went to the smaller one last week and they had a 3-4 hour waiting time. Mrs said yesterday the reason it was so busy is that a&evat the big hospital had a 14 hour waiting list. That is mad!

I know I went to the big one just after Christmas and was there from about 1pm til 5am. In the end we gave up as nobody was being seen and more people were arriving. We went to the smaller one when it opened in the morning.

The dentist thing is mad too. My mum won't go cos she's worried about the cost. The in laws are travelling 45 minutes to see an nhs one.

I know covid has been and still is an issue for the nhs. I know everyone is struggling with energy bills. But surely there is something they could do to improve things. There is no excuse given the money they have found for other things for letting the NHS go to shit. That is unforgivable, especially given the clapping and bull shit Johnson peddled during covid lockdowns.

[UFGN]

^ That's all fair and well but myself and EliteKiller have spent the last two pages trying to explain to PG that we're not saying illegal immigrants are "causing" the problem.

I've stated population vs spending, Elite has rightfully pointed out an ageing populace ........ which effectively is one and the same issue, population.

Illegal immigrants are part of the population and simply have no right to be here enjoying benefits including the NHS which are funded particularly for the citizens of this country ......... but again, we'd have an NHS issue whether they're here or not.

My point was hard times are coming across the board due to living costs, we can't be having an open door policy when we're already failing our own citizens, legal immigrants, not an issue, I'm specifically talking about illegals.

.......... the Rwanda project isn't for legal immigrants, hence why there shouldn't be opposition to it.

I oppose the Rwanda project because I think it's an expensive charade designed to make reactionaries hard.... It will be an expensive failure.

[DiamondGooner]

It feels like the whole country has gone to shit. Where I live there is a hospital with a&e in a city and a smaller hospital on the outskirts with a&e 8am-8pm (which used to be 24hr).

A few years ago the smaller one would have next to no waiting time and the big one would be 3-4 hours at the most.

Went to the smaller one last week and they had a 3-4 hour waiting time. Mrs said yesterday the reason it was so busy is that a&evat the big hospital had a 14 hour waiting list. That is mad!

I know I went to the big one just after Christmas and was there from about 1pm til 5am. In the end we gave up as nobody was being seen and more people were arriving. We went to the smaller one when it opened in the morning.

The dentist thing is mad too. My mum won't go cos she's worried about the cost. The in laws are travelling 45 minutes to see an nhs one.

I know covid has been and still is an issue for the nhs. I know everyone is struggling with energy bills. But surely there is something they could do to improve things. There is no excuse given the money they have found for other things for letting the NHS go to shit. That is unforgivable, especially given the clapping and bull shit Johnson peddled during covid lockdowns.

There is likely an agenda to sneak Private Healthcare in, US style imo.

I'm sure a lot of powerful people are lobbying for it and the US is there in the wings wanting to jump on board, its a shame Trump couldn't keep his mouth shut and basically announced it to the world that the US as well as other wealthy people with interests in medical care want Britain to make the NHS more private.

[DiamondGooner]

^ That's all fair and well but myself and EliteKiller have spent the last two pages trying to explain to PG that we're not saying illegal immigrants are "causing" the problem.

I've stated population vs spending, Elite has rightfully pointed out an ageing populace ........ which effectively is one and the same issue, population.

Illegal immigrants are part of the population and simply have no right to be here enjoying benefits including the NHS which are funded particularly for the citizens of this country ......... but again, we'd have an NHS issue whether they're here or not.

My point was hard times are coming across the board due to living costs, we can't be having an open door policy when we're already failing our own citizens, legal immigrants, not an issue, I'm specifically talking about illegals.

.......... the Rwanda project isn't for legal immigrants, hence why there shouldn't be opposition to it.

I oppose the Rwanda project because I think it's an expensive charade designed to make reactionaries hard.... It will be an expensive failure.

I think the main point of it is to be a deterrent and lessen the problem over time.

[Arsenal Tone]

It feels like the whole country has gone to shit. Where I live there is a hospital with a&e in a city and a smaller hospital on the outskirts with a&e 8am-8pm (which used to be 24hr).

A few years ago the smaller one would have next to no waiting time and the big one would be 3-4 hours at the most.

Went to the smaller one last week and they had a 3-4 hour waiting time. Mrs said yesterday the reason it was so busy is that a&evat the big hospital had a 14 hour waiting list. That is mad!

I know I went to the big one just after Christmas and was there from about 1pm til 5am. In the end we gave up as nobody was being seen and more people were arriving. We went to the smaller one when it opened in the morning.

The dentist thing is mad too. My mum won't go cos she's worried about the cost. The in laws are travelling 45 minutes to see an nhs one.

I know covid has been and still is an issue for the nhs. I know everyone is struggling with energy bills. But surely there is something they could do to improve things. There is no excuse given the money they have found for other things for letting the NHS go to shit. That is unforgivable, especially given the clapping and bull shit Johnson peddled during covid lockdowns.

There is likely an agenda to sneak Private Healthcare in, US style imo.

I'm sure a lot of powerful people are lobbying for it and the US is there in the wings wanting to jump on board, its a shame Trump couldn't keep his mouth shut and basically announced it to the world that the US as well as other wealthy people with interests in medical care want Britain to make the NHS more private.

Yeah, I agree. See that quote I posted earlier. They're not even trying to hide it!

[EliteKiller]

^ That's all fair and well but myself and EliteKiller have spent the last two pages trying to explain to PG that we're not saying illegal immigrants are "causing" the problem.

I've stated population vs spending, Elite has rightfully pointed out an ageing populace ........ which effectively is one and the same issue, population.

Illegal immigrants are part of the population and simply have no right to be here enjoying benefits including the NHS which are funded particularly for the citizens of this country ......... but again, we'd have an NHS issue whether they're here or not.

My point was hard times are coming across the board due to living costs, we can't be having an open door policy when we're already failing our own citizens, legal immigrants, not an issue, I'm specifically talking about illegals.

.......... the Rwanda project isn't for legal immigrants, hence why there shouldn't be opposition to it.

I oppose the Rwanda project because I think it's an expensive charade designed to make reactionaries hard.... It will be an expensive failure.

You oppose it because it challenges your inherent bias - how can housing immigrants in Rwanda at a cost of £20 a day be more expensive than housing them in the UK at a cost of £60 a day - even after the cost of a flight? If genuine they can return to the UK if not they can't, why do you see this as an expensive charade?

The cost of protracted legal battles by lawyers rich as Midas, who are only in it for the money, that's the real issue. Do you support that?

The whole point of using Rwanda (or any other cheap 3rd party option) is to try and deter illegal immigrants who have already crossed numerous countries where they could, if they were genuine, have claimed asylum, from arriving in the UK.

Instead of bleating about people trying to find a solution, why not propose one yourself?

Here's the problem - illegal immigrants are now arriving in the UK at a faster rate than ever before, the EU wont stop them or take them back, the UK system is currently unable to remove those with no genuine claim - so just what do you propose?

[EliteKiller]

It feels like the whole country has gone to shit. Where I live there is a hospital with a&e in a city and a smaller hospital on the outskirts with a&e 8am-8pm (which used to be 24hr).

A few years ago the smaller one would have next to no waiting time and the big one would be 3-4 hours at the most.

Went to the smaller one last week and they had a 3-4 hour waiting time. Mrs said yesterday the reason it was so busy is that a&evat the big hospital had a 14 hour waiting list. That is mad!

I know I went to the big one just after Christmas and was there from about 1pm til 5am. In the end we gave up as nobody was being seen and more people were arriving. We went to the smaller one when it opened in the morning.

The dentist thing is mad too. My mum won't go cos she's worried about the cost. The in laws are travelling 45 minutes to see an nhs one.

I know covid has been and still is an issue for the nhs. I know everyone is struggling with energy bills. But surely there is something they could do to improve things. There is no excuse given the money they have found for other things for letting the NHS go to shit. That is unforgivable, especially given the clapping and bull shit Johnson peddled during covid lockdowns.

There is likely an agenda to sneak Private Healthcare in, US style imo.

I'm sure a lot of powerful people are lobbying for it and the US is there in the wings wanting to jump on board, its a shame Trump couldn't keep his mouth shut and basically announced it to the world that the US as well as other wealthy people with interests in medical care want Britain to make the NHS more private.

Never going to happen - you cant honestly believe any government will ever be elected to privatise the NHS - simply not happening.

Will there be a greater NHS / Private two tier system (like Germany for example) quite possibly, the rich pay into the NHS but then pay again for additional private insurance, that system means the NHS still gets all the money but doesn't treat those who can afford to pay privately. An added benefit is a significant increase in hospitals, doctors and nurses in the private sector, handy should another pandemic occur.

At some point an independent secret medical board need to limit medical expenses - is spending a million pound on a super drug for one patient worth shortages for 10,000 patients who need £100 dental care? At what point does keeping people alive into their 90s, 100s and soon even older stop being a goal worth chasing? Tough calls but calls that need to be made if the whole system isn't going to collapse.

Successive governments of all colours have increased NHS spending way above its share of GDP - that's never going to be enough for a 'business' that can and will spend unlimited money unless controls are put in place.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

This why most in the US do not want socialized medicine. Governments never can deliver what they promise, every program gets bloated and inefficient. The issue should be about what system works the best IMO. We see that that Canadians come across the border in droves for medical care, our hospitals near the border always over build as a result. When C19 restrictions on the Canadian side were lifted last year hospitals in places like Grand Forks ND, Great Falls MT, Seattle...all had a massive rush of Canadians coming over for delayed surgeries that were even further delayed by C19.

The danger of the government controlling that much of anyone's life is pretty scary. Especially when the docs can simply go on strike as they have.

But no, I do not see the NHS being defunded ever. "Free" stuff never is.

[UFGN]

This why most in the US do not want socialized medicine. Governments never can deliver what they promise, every program gets bloated and inefficient. The issue should be about what system works the best IMO. We see that that Canadians come across the border in droves for medical care, our hospitals near the border always over build as a result. When C19 restrictions on the Canadian side were lifted last year hospitals in places like Grand Forks ND, Great Falls MT, Seattle...all had a massive rush of Canadians coming over for delayed surgeries that were even further delayed by C19.

The danger of the government controlling that much of anyone's life is pretty scary. Especially when the docs can simply go on strike as they have.

But no, I do not see the NHS being defunded ever. "Free" stuff never is.

The worst excesses of the NHS are more "efficient" than the cluster f**k you have in the US.

Why do you think my international travel insurance is valid almost everywhere but requires a supplement for US travel? I'll give you a clue.... It's not because your hospitals are better than Switzerland, France, Germany etc

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

Why do think the US taxpayer should subsidize your travel insurance?

That said all you need to do is sneak into the US and everything is free.

[UFGN]

Why do think the US taxpayer should subsidize your travel insurance?

That said all you need to do is sneak into the US and everything is free.

You miss the point as usual

My travel insurance pays if I need treatment. The same as it would elsewhere. But if I want to use it in the States it's so expensive for the insurance company to cover me that they charge a supplement. Why do you think yours is the only developed country this applies to?

[Royal Gooner]

Sadiq under investigation for possibly breaking electoral law

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-n ... n-24372602