David Cameron has resigned!

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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:57 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:
FPTP is 10 million times more democratic than someone in power who is not elected, as imperfect as it is.

When the house of Lords start making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.



Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's

Unelected

Minister of State for the Foreign Office in this current government.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Luzh 22 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:58 pm

When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:02 am

Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Zedie » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:03 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
Zedie wrote:Address at least one point that I've made in that whole post instead of side stepping literally everything that's happened since the vote came in.

How can you not have an opinion on any of the confirmed lies, back tracks and massive failures of the Conservative remain and leave camps?

I've reread your response twice and its clear you haven't read it before responding or you just can't acknowledge what's actually happening in the UK right now. :dontknow:


The reason I didn't answer any of those points is because quite frankly none of it matters to me.

I could give 2 fks what Farage say's or how Boris has acted in the aftermath or the rest of them quite frankly.
I didn't decide to agree with "Leave" for anything those lot said, give a stuff about the 350m for the NHS or immigration, the back tracking doesn't matter because those were non-issues to begin with.

I'm with "Leave" because I want my elected parliament to set law in the UK because they are beholden to the voter, I'm with "Leave" because the EU is obviously heading down the path of a Super State, I'm with "Leave" because British tax payers money should be here and be able to be accounted for not disappear down a Rabbit hole, I'm with "Leave" because as the 5th / 6th largest economy in the world we have no need to be embroiled in an un-elected EU.

Have any of those issues come up? because I'd be happy to discuss if they have?


This post is irrelevant. You were so busy laughing at Labour, yet you literally haven't spent a moment looking at the Tory back bone that:

A: backed remain whole heartedly and literally didn't put a contingency plan in place because they were so cock sure they would win

B: backed a leave campaign on a platform of confirmed bullshit, immediately back peddle yet somehow the dregs that are left are supposed to be the pool you yourself have stated you want the next leadership to be because let's face it, there's no one else left in the Tory party and its not going to be a remainer.

Ironically, you will be stuck with a cabinet that you are unable to vote on, because the party picks for you with none of your input. It's the main thing you have voted out for.

What are your thoughts and feelings on this?
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:07 am

UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:13 am

Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?


Your argument is a stinking corpse.

In any case the comissioner was nothing more than a diplomat doing what he was told by the elected prime minister.

You know this perfectly well. You just don't like foreigners having a say on your laws

But you're ok with unelected peers serving in the Cabinet in senior ministerial positions.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:26 am

UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?


Your argument is a stinking corpse.

In any case the comissioner was nothing more than a diplomat doing what he was told by the elected prime minister.

You know this perfectly well. You just don't like foreigners having a say on your laws

But you're ok with unelected peers serving in the Cabinet in senior ministerial positions.


I think you'll find that every commissioner, upon appointment, has to swear an oath to the EU, and surrender any allegiance to his/her home state. It's all there in black and white, if you care to look.

Next attempt?
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Zedie » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:39 am

Is Luzh seriously going to try and swerve the house of Lords hereditary peerage situation?

We literally have 92 hereditary peers who effectively scrutinise and approve laws for Britain, that only got a seat because they carry the name of someone who sat in their seat before them.

The last time the peasants elected one of these peers? NEVER. Just think of the amount of laws they'll be going over once article 50 has been submitted by a primeminister who wasn't even elected by the people lol

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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:44 am

Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?


Your argument is a stinking corpse.

In any case the comissioner was nothing more than a diplomat doing what he was told by the elected prime minister.

You know this perfectly well. You just don't like foreigners having a say on your laws

But you're ok with unelected peers serving in the Cabinet in senior ministerial positions.


I think you'll find that every commissioner, upon appointment, has to swear an oath to the EU, and surrender any allegiance to his/her home state. It's all there in black and white, if you care to look.

Next attempt?


Next attempt lol

I've already battered you mate.

You didn't even know that we have unelected cabinet ministers before I told you.

You continue this falsehood in your mind that the PM would appoint someone as Commissioner who he didn't completely trust to represent his government. Its complete nonsense.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:07 am

UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?


Your argument is a stinking corpse.

In any case the comissioner was nothing more than a diplomat doing what he was told by the elected prime minister.

You know this perfectly well. You just don't like foreigners having a say on your laws

But you're ok with unelected peers serving in the Cabinet in senior ministerial positions.


I think you'll find that every commissioner, upon appointment, has to swear an oath to the EU, and surrender any allegiance to his/her home state. It's all there in black and white, if you care to look.

Next attempt?


Next attempt lol

I've already battered you mate.

You didn't even know that we have unelected cabinet ministers before I told you.

You continue this falsehood in your mind that the PM would appoint someone as Commissioner who he didn't completely trust to represent his government. Its complete nonsense.


Still you fail to address any point properly. And yes, I did know, as we were discussing mandelson in the other thread, just yesterday...

They have to swear an oath, to serve the EU and only the EU. IT IS ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE SHOULD YOU CARE TO LOOK.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:16 am

Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?


Your argument is a stinking corpse.

In any case the comissioner was nothing more than a diplomat doing what he was told by the elected prime minister.

You know this perfectly well. You just don't like foreigners having a say on your laws

But you're ok with unelected peers serving in the Cabinet in senior ministerial positions.


I think you'll find that every commissioner, upon appointment, has to swear an oath to the EU, and surrender any allegiance to his/her home state. It's all there in black and white, if you care to look.

Next attempt?


Next attempt lol

I've already battered you mate.

You didn't even know that we have unelected cabinet ministers before I told you.

You continue this falsehood in your mind that the PM would appoint someone as Commissioner who he didn't completely trust to represent his government. Its complete nonsense.


Still you fail to address any point properly. And yes, I did know, as we were discussing mandelson in the other thread, just yesterday...

They have to swear an oath, to serve the EU and only the EU. IT IS ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE SHOULD YOU CARE TO LOOK.


No, you still don't get it because you simply don't want to.

The prime minister is not going to appoint a commissioner who he does not trust.

You take wild opposition to all this but you haven't mentioned until you were forced to, unelected cabinet ministers, unelected hereditary peers, who can and do block and disrupt government legislation (as recently as this year,) or the abattoir of democracy that is FPTP.

You just don't like foreigners having a say on laws here in the UK. You've lapped up the right wing "we can't kick them out" and "bendy bananas" bollocks wholesale. This is nothing to do with democracy for you.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:48 am

UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:When Joyce Anelay, Baroness Anelay of St John's, starts making laws, and passing them without the nations consent, I'll agree you have a point. Until that time... nope.


Our EU commissioner took part in creating Laws on behalf of the prime minister

EXACTLY like ol' Joyce there.

Exactly the same. You won't admit it because you know it kills your argument stone dead.

Lord Adonis btw, Secretary of State a few years back


Except, when she helps make a law, it has to pass a vote, through every elected MP in the house of commons... Bit of difference and a vital one at that.

Next attempt?


Your argument is a stinking corpse.

In any case the comissioner was nothing more than a diplomat doing what he was told by the elected prime minister.

You know this perfectly well. You just don't like foreigners having a say on your laws

But you're ok with unelected peers serving in the Cabinet in senior ministerial positions.


I think you'll find that every commissioner, upon appointment, has to swear an oath to the EU, and surrender any allegiance to his/her home state. It's all there in black and white, if you care to look.

Next attempt?


Next attempt lol

I've already battered you mate.

You didn't even know that we have unelected cabinet ministers before I told you.

You continue this falsehood in your mind that the PM would appoint someone as Commissioner who he didn't completely trust to represent his government. Its complete nonsense.


Still you fail to address any point properly. And yes, I did know, as we were discussing mandelson in the other thread, just yesterday...

They have to swear an oath, to serve the EU and only the EU. IT IS ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE SHOULD YOU CARE TO LOOK.


No, you still don't get it because you simply don't want to.

The prime minister is not going to appoint a commissioner who he does not trust.

You take wild opposition to all this but you haven't mentioned until you were forced to, unelected cabinet ministers, unelected hereditary peers, who can and do block and disrupt government legislation (as recently as this year,) or the abattoir of democracy that is FPTP.

You just don't like foreigners having a say on laws here in the UK. You've lapped up the right wing "we can't kick them out" and "bendy bananas" bollocks wholesale. This is nothing to do with democracy for you.


I'll be the first to admit, that the House of Lords is utter bullshit, and unelected peers should not be interrupting the due course of Democracy. They do not, however, implement laws at their sole discretion. That being said, if I had my way, it would be disbanded right away.

FPTP is utter BS too, but, it's still a million times better than having no election at all.

As for the whole "I don't like foreigners having a say on laws here in the UK." Well, that's partially true, as the foreigners you're talking about are unelected politicians. It has nothing to do with where they are from. If the commissioners were my family members, I would still take massive issue with it, so I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth (yet again).
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:57 am

Seeing as you continually refuse to acknowledge the oath an EU commissioner must make, here it is, word for word, in black and white:

Having been appointed as a Member of the European Commission by the European Council, following the vote of consent by the European Parliament

I solemnly undertake:

to respect the Treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in the fulfilment of all my duties;
to be completely independent in carrying out my responsibilities, in the general interest of the Union;
in the performance of my tasks, neither to seek nor to take instructions from any Government or from any other institution, body, office or entity;
to refrain from any action incompatible with my duties or the performance of my tasks.

I formally note the undertaking of each Member State to respect this principle and not to seek to influence Members of the Commission in the performance of their tasks.

I further undertake to respect, both during and after my term of office, the obligation arising therefrom, and in particular the duty to behave with integrity and discretion as regards the acceptance, after I have ceased to hold office, of certain appointments or benefits.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:59 am

You're still being dishonest about this and unfortunately for you, other people can read this and will see straight through what you're doing. You're not kidding anyone except yourself.

The Comissioner is one of 28 lawmakers. All 28 have been selected by democratically elected heads of government.

Just like the Cabinet here in the UK.

This is nothing to do with democracy, please stop playing games I'm bored now.
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Re: David Cameron has resigned!

Postby UFGN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:03 am

Luzh 22 wrote:Seeing as you continually refuse to acknowledge the oath an EU commissioner must make, here it is, word for word, in black and white:

Having been appointed as a Member of the European Commission by the European Council, [b]following the vote of consent by the European Parliament

I solemnly undertake:

to respect the Treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in the fulfilment of all my duties;
to be completely independent in carrying out my responsibilities, in the general interest of the Union;
in the performance of my tasks, neither to seek nor to take instructions from any Government or from any other institution, body, office or entity;
to refrain from any action incompatible with my duties or the performance of my tasks.

I formally note the undertaking of each Member State to respect this principle and not to seek to influence Members of the Commission in the performance of their tasks.

I further undertake to respect, both during and after my term of office, the obligation arising therefrom, and in particular the duty to behave with integrity and discretion as regards the acceptance, after I have ceased to hold office, of certain appointments or benefits.[/b]


:rofll:

Who YOU VOTE FOR!
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