Media stirring racism.

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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:16 am

Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:Africa is too easy, well for the question i want to ask.

By East Asia, im referring to mainly the grouping of Chinese,Japanese,Korean. Would you consider these to be of the same race.

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Chinese,Korean,Japanese. For reference.


i dont know any koreans but in terms of japanese vs chinese from my perspective yes but they are the same race. But then from my own point of view the only relevant thing is all of those groups are a different race to me.

From the point of view of a korean/chinese/ japanese they could see differences between all three that would make them think that they're from different regions. Hence what i said it's subjective.


im going to answer but you need to clarify that first, you said to you they're the same race,then in the next line,to you they are a different race.


i said they are all different to my own race. Thats the only relevant thing. So if i had never seen any other race other than my own and i say those people i would see them all as just different and i would group them together.


Got it.

So we admit that race is subjective
Individuals may differ in their view of race
But you would group then together, fair enough.

In the beginning I asked if being more attracted to an Asian women than a White women was racist, to which you responded Yes it is racist.

Is being more attracted to Japanese women than to Chinese women racist?


If you could distinguish between the two purely by looks yes.

This situation however isnt one that i'm capable of being in at this moment in time seeing as i dont think i would be able to distinguish between the two with a good deal of confidence just by looks.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:24 am

It's not racist to be more attracted to a certain race of women, it's a matter of preference.

By that logic people who date outside their race are racist against their own kind.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Apollo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:27 am

See this is the problem.

Now we're talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherently racist.

And that is where your argument fails.
Last edited by Apollo on Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:30 am

Va-Va-Voom wrote:It's not racist to be more attracted to a certain race of women, it's a matter of preference.

By that logic people who date outside their race are racist against their own kind.


you can be racist against your own kind.

this is how i defined racism earlier on


my definition is quite simple. Any preference or discrimination of a group or an individual based on their race.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:42 am

Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Zenith » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:43 am

Thousands and thousands of unique types of gnomes are harvested every week - anthropologically and scientifcially race does simply not exist. Races exist as social constructs and that's where the debate ends, or starts, for some.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:45 am

Héctor24 wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:It's not racist to be more attracted to a certain race of women, it's a matter of preference.

By that logic people who date outside their race are racist against their own kind.


you can be racist against your own kind.

this is how i defined racism earlier on


my definition is quite simple. Any preference or discrimination of a group or an individual based on their race.


Of course you can be racist against your own kind. Dating outside your race doesn't constitute racism though - it's a matter of preference.

If I think a certain Asian woman is prettier than a certain white woman I'll be more attracted to her - that's not racist.

There are beautiful and ugly people in all races and everyone has different tastes.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Apollo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:50 am

Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.


I've questioned you on both.

Again, if the word race can be diluted to such a level where the genetic differences are negligible , you have no argument.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:50 am

Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:It's not racist to be more attracted to a certain race of women, it's a matter of preference.

By that logic people who date outside their race are racist against their own kind.


you can be racist against your own kind.

this is how i defined racism earlier on


my definition is quite simple. Any preference or discrimination of a group or an individual based on their race.


Of course you can be racist against your own kind. Dating outside your race doesn't constitute racism though - it's a matter of preference.

If I think a certain Asian woman is prettier than a certain white woman I'll be more attracted to her - that's not racist.

There are beautiful and ugly people in all races and everyone has different tastes.


yes but then if you think every asian girl is better than any white girl then that becomes racist or if you only date asisan girls then thats racist.

Or if you say that asian women in general are more attractive than white women that's also racist. It's not a bad thing but i dont think all racism (please understand that i mean racism under my definition and not under anyone elses) is bad.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:10 am

Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.


I've questioned you on both.

Again, if the word race can be diluted to such a level where the genetic differences are negligible , you have no argument.



So are you telling me that you think there's a difference between shanghai business owner who doesnt give work to someone who's from beijing purely because they're from beijing

and the same person refusing to give work to someone who's from africa (which they know by looking at their skin colour) If the reason is purely because they arent from the same place as you then really where that person is from really doesnt matter (even if you're infact wrong and they actually happen to be a long lost twin).

I'm not even sure why you're saying i dont have an argument. I gave my definition of what race is, said that everyone definition is subjective so they might have different ways of identifying people of different races. However once you have identified a group or a person as of a different race and you treat them differently than people of your own race or even aother race (other than your or his) then that is racism.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Apollo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:38 am

Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.


I've questioned you on both.

Again, if the word race can be diluted to such a level where the genetic differences are negligible , you have no argument.



So are you telling me that you think there's a difference between shanghai business owner who doesnt give work to someone who's from beijing purely because they're from beijing

and the same person refusing to give work to someone who's from africa (which they know by looking at their skin colour) If the reason is purely because they arent from the same place as you then really where that person is from really doesnt matter (even if you're infact wrong and they actually happen to be a long lost twin).


I'm not even sure why you're saying i dont have an argument. I gave my definition of what race is, said that everyone definition is subjective so they might have different ways of identifying people of different races. However once you have identified a group or a person as of a different race and you treat them differently than people of your own race or even aother race (other than your or his) then that is racism.


What?

I literally went step by step, over the past few pages in small increments to get to the point, and show the looseness of your racial conceptualization, within what would otherwise be considered a group with negligible genetic of physical differences.

Furthermore at no stage have we discussed job discrimination.

Once we get to the point, you revert back to 3 pages ago.At which point did you stop following what I was saying, i'll help you out.To me it seemed like we were pretty straight.
Last edited by Apollo on Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:38 am

JordanTheGunner wrote:We just need to change our laws and start kicking people out of the country tbh. Although you may not agree with the bandwagon the Romanian is jumping on, he's earned the right to that opinion.

I'm all for attacking those Muslims/Polish/whatever your frickin nationality, if you don't bring anything to the table you're not helping yourself to my plate. There should be a minimum amount of work you should have done by 3/5/10 years and if you don't meet that (without justification) then bam deported/face cuts.


What I find exceptional about this post is this is how a lot of British people feel, but they don't realize with all their "we should do this" and "We should do that" is completely at odds with how their Government view things and so its an absolute parody.

Hitler for all his faults was a very smart man when it came to actually dealing with what he perceived as the "problem" i.e Jews, he realized that for all the marching and the beatings he and his SA were doing were all for naught because real change can only be done via government and so changed tact to be purely political.

What British people fail to understand is immigration will keep coming .......... because the Government and big business want it to, its as simple as that.

Why do they want it? labour (cheap), more workers = more tax payers, more people in an economy = buyers of goods, more property bought, more bus tickets sold, more fees paid etc etc etc and it never ends.
If Britain were to empty itself of all people of colour tomorrow the economy would be in ruins, shops would close, businesses would fail and giant blue chip companies would face massive competition for capable workers meaning wage increases across the board.

Think of how America was built and that's what the British Gov wants, getting rid of all foreigners is an armagedon for a metropolis based country.

You need to realize Britain is viewed by the Gov as a business, increased population = more customers.

Now if racists and far right activists had half a brain between them they would know this.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:01 pm

Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.


I've questioned you on both.

Again, if the word race can be diluted to such a level where the genetic differences are negligible , you have no argument.



So are you telling me that you think there's a difference between shanghai business owner who doesnt give work to someone who's from beijing purely because they're from beijing

and the same person refusing to give work to someone who's from africa (which they know by looking at their skin colour) If the reason is purely because they arent from the same place as you then really where that person is from really doesnt matter (even if you're infact wrong and they actually happen to be a long lost twin).


I'm not even sure why you're saying i dont have an argument. I gave my definition of what race is, said that everyone definition is subjective so they might have different ways of identifying people of different races. However once you have identified a group or a person as of a different race and you treat them differently than people of your own race or even aother race (other than your or his) then that is racism.


What?

I literally went step by step, over the past few pages in small increments to get to the point, and show the looseness of your racial conceptualization, within what would otherwise be considered a group with negligible genetic of physical differences.

Furthermore at no stage have we discussed job discrimination.

Once we get to the point, you revert back to 3 pages ago.At which point did you stop following what I was saying, i'll help you out.To me it seemed like we were pretty straight.


You saying i dont have an argument because of how i define race however i dont see how my definition of race and racisim means i dont have an argument. The reason i brought up job discirmination is to show that really it doesnt make much difference who people regard as the same race discriminating against them based on the philiosphy (them being from a different place) is just as harmful even if one actually isnt from a different place (but the person discriminating thinks he is). You dont have to know someone is from a different place to be racist as long as you think they're from a different place that is all that matters.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Apollo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:08 pm

Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.


I've questioned you on both.

Again, if the word race can be diluted to such a level where the genetic differences are negligible , you have no argument.



So are you telling me that you think there's a difference between shanghai business owner who doesnt give work to someone who's from beijing purely because they're from beijing

and the same person refusing to give work to someone who's from africa (which they know by looking at their skin colour) If the reason is purely because they arent from the same place as you then really where that person is from really doesnt matter (even if you're infact wrong and they actually happen to be a long lost twin).


I'm not even sure why you're saying i dont have an argument. I gave my definition of what race is, said that everyone definition is subjective so they might have different ways of identifying people of different races. However once you have identified a group or a person as of a different race and you treat them differently than people of your own race or even aother race (other than your or his) then that is racism.


What?

I literally went step by step, over the past few pages in small increments to get to the point, and show the looseness of your racial conceptualization, within what would otherwise be considered a group with negligible genetic of physical differences.

Furthermore at no stage have we discussed job discrimination.

Once we get to the point, you revert back to 3 pages ago.At which point did you stop following what I was saying, i'll help you out.To me it seemed like we were pretty straight.


You saying i dont have an argument because of how i define race however i dont see how my definition of race and racisim means i dont have an argument. The reason i brought up job discirmination is to show that really it doesnt make much difference who people regard as the same race discriminating against them based on the philiosphy (them being from a different place) is just as harmful even if one actually isnt from a different place (but the person discriminating thinks he is). You dont have to know someone is from a different place to be racist as long as you think they're from a different place that is all that matters.


Employment based discrimination based on the grounds of skin colour is something i would define as racism.

However the part of your argument I took issue with, and what we where discussing was;

one

Preference being racism, I.E groups of woman you find more attractive

and secondly

How fine the distinctions can become,even amongst people who would traditionally be considered as a homogeneous group with little genetic diversity being tagged as racism.

This will inevitable happen with every dilution of the term race.There are many various tribes in South Africa each with somewhat distinct appearances, for the purpose of plainness all the tribes would be called black tribes, and i doubt most people outside South Africa would be be to group from sight, black white or blue.Now if some South African someone is attracted to characteristics of one tribe more than than anther and is labeled racist as a result, how much weight does the word now hold?

None, because we'd be dealing with indistinguishable margins.And asking questions of tribalism,culture,prefference but not race.
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Re: Media stirring racism.

Postby Héctor24 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:14 pm

Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Héctor24 wrote:
Apollo wrote:See this is the problem.

Now where talking about a group which has such little standard genetic deviation and still applying the same term.

We can keep going, and what will eventually happen is saying

Being more attracted to people from the North of china than the South is racist.
Being more attracted to people from Beijing than Shanghai is racist.
Being more attracted to people from 1st street to 2nd street is racist.

Basically any genetic deviation no matter how insignificant will be rounded up to another micro race .

You've devalued to concept to such an extent that it is essentially meaningless. Now i don't mind the concept being devalued because again human construct and all that, but then you still say with this meaningless concept that humans are inherantly racist.

And that is where your argument fails.


what term am i applying are we talking about race or racism because i thought they were 2 different things so far you've been questioning me on race.

People's views on who's part of their race may be subjective but treating that person that you have identified as of another race differently to what you'd treat somone of your race is subjective. That's the racism part.


I've questioned you on both.

Again, if the word race can be diluted to such a level where the genetic differences are negligible , you have no argument.



So are you telling me that you think there's a difference between shanghai business owner who doesnt give work to someone who's from beijing purely because they're from beijing

and the same person refusing to give work to someone who's from africa (which they know by looking at their skin colour) If the reason is purely because they arent from the same place as you then really where that person is from really doesnt matter (even if you're infact wrong and they actually happen to be a long lost twin).


I'm not even sure why you're saying i dont have an argument. I gave my definition of what race is, said that everyone definition is subjective so they might have different ways of identifying people of different races. However once you have identified a group or a person as of a different race and you treat them differently than people of your own race or even aother race (other than your or his) then that is racism.


What?

I literally went step by step, over the past few pages in small increments to get to the point, and show the looseness of your racial conceptualization, within what would otherwise be considered a group with negligible genetic of physical differences.

Furthermore at no stage have we discussed job discrimination.

Once we get to the point, you revert back to 3 pages ago.At which point did you stop following what I was saying, i'll help you out.To me it seemed like we were pretty straight.


You saying i dont have an argument because of how i define race however i dont see how my definition of race and racisim means i dont have an argument. The reason i brought up job discirmination is to show that really it doesnt make much difference who people regard as the same race discriminating against them based on the philiosphy (them being from a different place) is just as harmful even if one actually isnt from a different place (but the person discriminating thinks he is). You dont have to know someone is from a different place to be racist as long as you think they're from a different place that is all that matters.


Employment based discrimination based on the grounds of skin colour is something i would define as racism.

However the part of your argument I took issue with, and what we where discussing was;

one

Preference being racism, I.E groups of woman you find more attractive

and secondly

How fine the distinctions can become,even amongst people who would traditionally be considered as a homogeneous group with little genetic diversity being tagged as racism.

This will inevitable happen with every dilution of the term race.There are many various tribes in South Africa each with somewhat distinct appearances, for the purpose of plainness all the tribes would be called black tribes, and i doubt most people outside South Africa would be be to group from sight, black white or blue.Now if some South African someone is attracted to characteristics of one tribe more than than anther and is labeled racist as a result, how much weight does the word now hold?

None, because we'd be dealing with indistinguishable margins.And asking questions of tribalism,culture,prefference but not race.


I think where you and i differ is that i dont think racism is always a negative thing whilst you expect it to hold some kind of negative connotations. I'm not sure what kind of weight you would like the word to hold, if you want to use the word to only describe things that you regard as negative then i can see why my definition is problematic however i see no difference in someone having a preference of dating white women and another person having a preference of hiring white people. The both preferences are based on race so yes they are equally as racist.

Are they both as destructive as each other? no but why do they have to be to be classed as racist.
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