The Big Bang Theory and God

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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:27 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:The issue is that the big bang theory relies on an impossibility itself. The big bang theory says that nothing exploded and created everything. Of course that is impossible as nothing can come from nothing. However, if you take the theory as it was originally conceived it makes a lot more sense as it states the notion there being something before which caused the creation of the universe. That something before would be what we would know as God.



That's not what it says though. In science there is no such thing as nothing. There is actually something that it came from. Read Lawrence Kraus' book "A Universe from Nothing". And keep in mind when they say nothing, it doesn't mean literally "nothing".
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Yorkyblue » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:37 pm

I hope that when you die there is a little time when you know it's over for good so people can think 'f**k, I wasted my life believing something that had no facts so I just put faith into it'.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby arsebandit » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:37 pm

I am waiting for Cripps to explain the Big Bang as I'm guessing he was around at the time.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Cripps » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:54 pm

Living in Mars then.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Maradonna » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:15 pm

StLGooner wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:The issue is that the big bang theory relies on an impossibility itself. The big bang theory says that nothing exploded and created everything. Of course that is impossible as nothing can come from nothing. However, if you take the theory as it was originally conceived it makes a lot more sense as it states the notion there being something before which caused the creation of the universe. That something before would be what we would know as God.



That's not what it says though. In science there is no such thing as nothing. There is actually something that it came from. Read Lawrence Kraus' book "A Universe from Nothing". And keep in mind when they say nothing, it doesn't mean literally "nothing".

I see your lawrence kraus and i go all in with Sartre:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_Nothingness
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:47 pm

Maradonaitis wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:The issue is that the big bang theory relies on an impossibility itself. The big bang theory says that nothing exploded and created everything. Of course that is impossible as nothing can come from nothing. However, if you take the theory as it was originally conceived it makes a lot more sense as it states the notion there being something before which caused the creation of the universe. That something before would be what we would know as God.



That's not what it says though. In science there is no such thing as nothing. There is actually something that it came from. Read Lawrence Kraus' book "A Universe from Nothing". And keep in mind when they say nothing, it doesn't mean literally "nothing".

I see your lawrence kraus and i go all in with Sartre:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_Nothingness



That goes deeper than what we're really talking about here.

I'm just explaining that when they say "nothing", they don't really mean nothing, there was something there.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby CynicalGooner » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:26 pm

When I was a kid and was still religious, I basically believed that god created the big bang, which then went onto expand space exponentially, cool down, coalesce and form the universe as we know it - without God doing much else.

I am no longer religious and so don't believe God had any part in it. But I don't even know if I believe in the big bang theory any more. The two main pieces of evidence; the continued expansion and the cosmic microwave background (CMB) are compelling but could be explained in different ways - especially as expansion is accelerating (WTF? Makes no sense).

We are clever apes who have barely climbed down from the trees, we have a long way to go to understand this universe we live in.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:09 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:When I was a kid and was still religious, I basically believed that god created the big bang, which then went onto expand space exponentially, cool down, coalesce and form the universe as we know it - without God doing much else.

I am no longer religious and so don't believe God had any part in it. But I don't even know if I believe in the big bang theory any more. The two main pieces of evidence; the continued expansion and the cosmic microwave background (CMB) are compelling but could be explained in different ways - especially as expansion is accelerating (WTF? Makes no sense).

We are clever apes who have barely climbed down from the trees, we have a long way to go to understand this universe we live in.



Very well said, I'm not sure I ever really believed the big bang (never believed in God), there are so many new theories now days as well, all of which sound equally as plausible.

But that last sentence rings the most true! :1970_two_smileys_drinking_beer_together.gif:
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby coach8smallball » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:37 pm

don't know much about the big bang theory, but do believe in God.

the proof, Jesus Christ. even in the secular world he's a historical figure. so there's no denying he existed. it's essentially central to Christian faith that Christ has risen. find jesus's body and all claims to Christianity are false. so the question to nonbelievers, how do you view JC?
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:49 pm

coach8smallball wrote:don't know much about the big bang theory, but do believe in God.

the proof, Jesus Christ. even in the secular world he's a historical figure. so there's no denying he existed. it's essentially central to Christian faith that Christ has risen. find jesus's body and all claims to Christianity are false. so the question to nonbelievers, how do you view JC?


Man made religions are just that ........ made up.

There is actually not much evidence for JC at his time of life, his story or a version of it actually came around 100 years after his supposed demise, he's not even in Roman records of the time apparently.

Big bang theory is subject to debate as well, I had years ago a very long discussion with a cosmologist who suggested that the Universe may very well of been always here and that there are spreads of movement throughout the universe due to cataclysmic events i.e black holes, Quasar's and star explosions all over, doesn't mean there is one centralised event.

There are actually behind closed doors quite a few cosmologists who think this but they are shouted down by colleagues raised on the Big bang theory ....... also famous peoples careers were built off the big bang theory so its controversial for insiders to question it.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Jedi » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:19 pm

In my opinion, religion and science are completely different topics and shouldn't be mixed together.

Anyone who tries to scientifically argue that there's 'evidence' for the existence of God is a fool. Same goes for anyone who tries to disprove the existence of God. That's why we call it a belief system. Everyone has one, whether or not they're atheist, Muslim or Christian. There's no scientific evidence that being a moral human being is the 'right' way. Furthermore, everything in science points towards complete nihilism. Doesn't mean you shouldn't care about anything and be a complete asshole, only looking out for your self-interests.

The only other thing that's worth discussing is whether belief in god is beneficial or detrimental to the human race. Although i'm atheist I'm not so convinced with arguments made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and others. In my eyes, religion has an overall positive effect on humans.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby StLGooner » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:33 pm

I think if there is some kind of deity, it has absolutely nothing to do with any religion or any version of the gods man has come up with so far. We all think of god as a being that is all powerful, all knowing, and caring, or at least that is what many have been indoctrinated with and conditioned to believe. I would say just by looking at the horrible things that happen to people everyday that if there is a deity it definitely doesn't care, and or isn't all knowing or powerful. I think at this point in time religious beliefs are actually hurting humanity as a whole rather than helping it. I would argue though that at one point, maybe these religious faiths were needed and actually helped humanity. But we know enough now to understand that these religions were nothing more than early ways to try to explain things, and used for political power and control. I'm not sure if man will ever find out the true origins of the Universe, at least not in my life time. I'm completely ok with not knowing that answer, but I am not ok with people thinking they know the answer and then pushing that blind faith of belief into our politics and classrooms. If humanity as a whole would just admit and stand by the FACT that we don't KNOW and accept that as the answer right now, I think we all would be in a better place.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:12 pm

Jedieurokrem wrote:In my opinion, religion and science are completely different topics and shouldn't be mixed together.

Anyone who tries to scientifically argue that there's 'evidence' for the existence of God is a fool. Same goes for anyone who tries to disprove the existence of God. That's why we call it a belief system. Everyone has one, whether or not they're atheist, Muslim or Christian. There's no scientific evidence that being a moral human being is the 'right' way.


Couldn't disagree with this more.

Science is the study of all things real lol .......... so your basically saying because religion is made up its unfair to hold it to realistic standards.

:clap:

Yep that's how its done, you've summed it up right there, and sorry but when people kill over religion your damn right its going to be put under the microscope and held to the same standards as everything else.

Also yes, there is plenty of scientific evidence to say that being a somewhat moral human being is "the right way", if you commit random murders you go insane, that's how you know your not supposed to do it for no reason, also its against social order which is natures tribal laws, this is why Lions, Wolves etc aren't just random nutters.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Jedi » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:52 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:so your basically saying because religion is made up its unfair to hold it to realistic standards.

That's not what i'm saying at all. I'm saying you're welcome to investigate religion with the scientific method but you won't find anything. There is no evidence to suggest God exists according to science. As simple as that. Therefore, technically God does not exist according to science.

That's why religion isn't based on science. Religion or any other belief system is, by my definition, belief in something despite the lack of scientific evidence. If science could prove it, by that definition it wouldn't be religion anymore.

DiamondGooner wrote:when people kill over religion your damn right its going to be put under the microscope and held to the same standards as everything else.

Did i ever say you shouldn't criticize religion? :dontknow: Science doesn't disprove God to extremists, therefore its findings won't have an impact on their beliefs. The only way you can stop them is by ridiculing them and waging war against them.

DiamondGooner wrote:Also yes, there is plenty of scientific evidence to say that being a somewhat moral human being is "the right way", if you commit random murders you go insane, that's how you know your not supposed to do it for no reason, also its against social order which is natures tribal laws, this is why Lions, Wolves etc aren't just random nutters.

First off, do you have any evidence that people go insane as they commit random murders? This is a very flawed argument. There's plenty of nutcases that are serial killers but they were already crazy beforehand. Killing people isn't the cause of their mental problems, it's just a symptom. Even if you were right, this is only an argument that it's evolutionary beneficial for people to "act" moral. You still haven't given me a reason why a human being should strive to be "good" apart from a personal belief system.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:48 pm

Two things ..........

One, science actually can have a hand in proving there is a power beyond our comprehension, I just don't think you've ever had a conversation that has looked into it that deeply.

1) If the Big bang theory is correct then that is scientifically impossible, (which is why the Church actually like the theory), question, how can two atoms collide to create the big bang? i.e if there were nothing in space then where did the two atoms come from?
Chicken and egg philosophy, considering you can't have one without the other where did it originate if you catch my drift?

2) Cells, how did they go from inanimate cells to being mobile and carrying information? DNA for example is made up of cells carrying code, code is information, how can something without a brain or anything for that matter have information, information = intelligence.

You can have a pile of bricks but just because you leave them there for 500 years when you come back you don't expect to find a house.

On your last question - "Why should humans strive to be good"
You don't.
Where did you get this notion from exactly? many peoples in history had no culture of "being good" in fact life on the Steppe was almost the opposite.
The reason we strive for good traits is purely social, if you lie or steal you are viewed as untrustworthy, untrustworthy is a negative trait, if you kill without reason like a psycho again you are proving yourself dangerous to those around you and unpredictable, another negative trait, if you're Paedophile your viewed as deviant and a danger to other peoples young, again another negative trait.

What these are adding up to is this, in the wild or even in our modern social circles negative traits affect your ability to make friends, attract females, be a valued member of the tribe ...... even your very survival.

Someone who "doesn't act right" would be cast out or even killed, which kind of drives the point home, just because in today's circles you can get away with being a pr*ck because the law protects you, in the wild or even in the wrong neighbourhood if you don't get with the programme you could come to real harm.
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