The Big Bang Theory and God

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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Zenith » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:19 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Chicken and egg philosophy, considering you can't have one without the other where did it originate if you catch my drift


If the question is to be taken literally, it has a simple biological answer; Each chicken comes from an egg, and hard-shelled eggs have been created much earlier in the evolutionary process. Previous egg-laying animals (such as fish and lizards) evolved millions of years before the origin of the birds. The first chicken whose genes deviated enough from a previously established population to classify it as a new species was thus not born from parents who would themselves be identified as chicken.

However, because evolution is a continuous process, it is not customary to distinguish between two consecutive generations.

If the question specifically relates to the chicken egg, then the answer is also the egg. An animal almost identical to the modern chicken (a proto-chicken) laid a fertilized egg whose DNA was consistent with the modern chicken. This is a result of mutations in the mother's ovum (or egg cell) and the semen of the father.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby LMAO » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:36 pm

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I'm in no way an astrophysicist, but I can wrap my head around a 'Big Bang' (which isn't really an accurate term anymore as it's not thought of as a bang, more of an expansion) and an eternal universe. Suppose the universe is like a rubber band: We're currently in a period of the rubber band expanding, but the rubber band eventually reaches a point where expansion stops so it contracts. The snap back results in a collapse of everything in the universe into a singularity. Because the singularity isn't a stable state, the universe expands again. Repeat ∞. The part that raises questions is increasing, instead of decreasing, acceleration, but I suppose that can be explained by relativity.

I can't subscribe to the notion of a grand creator with the current (lack of) evidence tbh. Because a creator raises an infinite regression question: What created that creator created that creator created that creator—and so on? If some mystic creator can exist eternally without need for another creator, then why can't the universe do the same?
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:52 pm

Brandon wrote:
I can't subscribe to the notion of a grand creator with the current (lack of) evidence tbh. Because a creator raises an infinite regression question: What created that creator created that creator created that creator—and so on? If some mystic creator can exist eternally without need for another creator, then why can't the universe do the same?


So does the big bang theory.

Where did the particle, atom, matter, energy come from?

Either way, whether you believe in a God or the big bang there will always be unanswerable questions about how it all started.

It's best to just accept we'll never know one way or the other (until we die, maybe).
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Jedi » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:07 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Two things ..........

One, science actually can have a hand in proving there is a power beyond our comprehension, I just don't think you've ever had a conversation that has looked into it that deeply.

1) If the Big bang theory is correct then that is scientifically impossible, (which is why the Church actually like the theory), question, how can two atoms collide to create the big bang? i.e if there were nothing in space then where did the two atoms come from?
Chicken and egg philosophy, considering you can't have one without the other where did it originate if you catch my drift?

2) Cells, how did they go from inanimate cells to being mobile and carrying information? DNA for example is made up of cells carrying code, code is information, how can something without a brain or anything for that matter have information, information = intelligence.

You can have a pile of bricks but just because you leave them there for 500 years when you come back you don't expect to find a house.

On your last question - "Why should humans strive to be good"
You don't.
Where did you get this notion from exactly? many peoples in history had no culture of "being good" in fact life on the Steppe was almost the opposite.
The reason we strive for good traits is purely social, if you lie or steal you are viewed as untrustworthy, untrustworthy is a negative trait, if you kill without reason like a psycho again you are proving yourself dangerous to those around you and unpredictable, another negative trait, if you're Paedophile your viewed as deviant and a danger to other peoples young, again another negative trait.

What these are adding up to is this, in the wild or even in our modern social circles negative traits affect your ability to make friends, attract females, be a valued member of the tribe ...... even your very survival.

Someone who "doesn't act right" would be cast out or even killed, which kind of drives the point home, just because in today's circles you can get away with being a pr*ck because the law protects you, in the wild or even in the wrong neighbourhood if you don't get with the programme you could come to real harm.


1) The Big Bang theory isn't perfect but it's the best thing we got. As for your question, i have no idea because you can't apply conventional reasoning to a problem which is outside our universe. There's plenty other evidence to support the theory like the fact that the universe is expanding and others.

2) Again, I have no idea. But i don't see why we should assume that you need intelligence to have information. If we assume this, doesn't it even increase the possibilities that there is a God - An intelligent creator.

3) Well this is my main point on why religion is good for humanity and my main criticism of atheism. Everything in Atheism inevitably points to nihilism, which doesn't mean it isn't true, but it's still depressing and i don't think society can be built on that kind of thinking. Watch this video, Jordan Peterson sums it up well:
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:33 am

Your first two points, you said science isn't compatible with religion ....... I just showed you it can and should be.

Secondly on the morals question, as I also pointed out, we don't need religion to act decent, what people need is the same thing we've always had and even religion supposedly provides / threatens ......... and that is consequences.

Atheism doesn't = nihilism, in fact how many wars have been started over atheism? I can tell that historically the two biggest reasons for mass murder in history has been resources and religion.

The biggest taming influence on humanity is not religion, its actually civilisation.

People fight for food, land, power, resources, civilisation always had the most tame peoples because Cities bought an abundance of resources to its civilians.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Jedi » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:15 am

DiamondGooner wrote:on the morals question, as I also pointed out, we don't need religion to act decent, what people need is the same thing we've always had and even religion supposedly provides / threatens ......... and that is consequences.

I'm not saying we need religion as in Christianity or Islam specifically. I'm saying, to be moral, we need belief systems, which are deep-seated in all of us (well most of us), regardless of whether we are atheists or religious, and these belief systems are usually connected to whatever religion is dominant in your country/region. Acting decent is not enough. Plenty of sociopaths act decent but manipulate and only act out of self-interest. They pretend to feel emotion but it's all to fit in and as you've said because of consequences. These are not the characteristics of a regular human being. Morality is more then "acting" decent out of pure self-interest. It's about doing the right thing when you don't have to, when nobody will find out if you didn't. Essentially, doing the right thing is often irrational and in a society built on atheism we would eventually stop doing these irrational things.

DiamondGooner wrote:Atheism doesn't = nihilism

Care to elaborate on this? As an atheist, no matter what way i look at it, nihilism is always the logical conclusion to everything. I mean, you can "make meaning out of life by yourself" but it ultimately has no meaning, we're all just particles in a universe and nothing matters.

DiamondGooner wrote:how many wars have been started over atheism?

We don't have civilizations built on Atheism.



Also, I've derailed the thread, i apologize.
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The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Tony_Adams » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:56 am

Every time this thread pops up on my unread list all I can think of is:

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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby Angelito » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:50 pm

When talking about religions, most of you are referencing Christianity, Islam; basically, those religions that stemmed out of Judaism. Other religions like Hinduism and Buddhism have a more sophisticated explanation of the origin of Universe. Buddhism is considered an "atheistic religion" and the concept of God in Hinduism is so eschewed that either every organism on this planet is God or none at all.

You guys do realize that there is a possibility that existence existed before the modern rendering of the big bang? Science can neither prove, nor disprove an existence of another form of life before the big bang, or may not have. If we cannot accept that we don't have answers to every question, we can—at the very least—accept that something may have existed before the big bang. Hence, is the big bang, God—not the God who's smoking week in the skies, or the God who has a beard, or may have breasts? But, a God, that is a process, that is unconscious reality. Think about it.


Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Brandon wrote:
I can't subscribe to the notion of a grand creator with the current (lack of) evidence tbh. Because a creator raises an infinite regression question: What created that creator created that creator created that creator—and so on? If some mystic creator can exist eternally without need for another creator, then why can't the universe do the same?


So does the big bang theory.

Where did the particle, atom, matter, energy come from?

Either way, whether you believe in a God or the big bang there will always be unanswerable questions about how it all started.

It's best to just accept we'll never know one way or the other (until we die, maybe).


We will. Not we per se but our descendents. You have to understand that we are the same arrogant beings who assumed that the sun revolved around the earth, and ended up hanging hundreds of people for opposing the theory. Humans, in general, are very arrogant. Instead of arguing about a possibility of something existing, or something way beyond our imagination working as underlying forces in regulating the universe, we look at symptoms through our limited knowledge and start concluding. And, we form a cult out of it.

Imagine yourself, Vava. You land up in the middle ages in London with a smartphone. You'd be assassinated for performing witchcraft or holding a tool of witchcraft. Humans have always been very close-minded and that includes today's leaders in science and cosmology.


Callum wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:The issue is that the big bang theory relies on an impossibility itself. The big bang theory says that nothing exploded and created everything. Of course that is impossible as nothing can come from nothing. However, if you take the theory as it was originally conceived it makes a lot more sense as it states the notion there being something before which caused the creation of the universe. That something before would be what we would know as God.

The way I see it is that our concept of "time" and "nothing" is so primal and basic that it can't be extrapolated to something as crazy, vast and long as the universe. I just don't think humans are capable of understanding something that is so much bigger than us in the same way monkeys aren't capable of understanding what the f**k algebra is. They don't have the brain function for it. Humans think they're smart because the only things we can compare ourselves too are animals. I just think there's an arrogance to humans in thinking that the answers to life are something we can find out - hey, perhaps we can, but I think there's a greater probability that the truth behind it all is something we just cannot possibly comprehend.


Very underrated post here.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby OptimusPrimett » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:24 pm

believing in god is on a par with believing in witchcraft, wizardry, ghosts and dragons.
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Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:59 pm

OptimusPrimett wrote:believing in god is on a par with believing in witchcraft, wizardry, ghosts and dragons.


Not if you apply science it isn't.

There are a number of things in the Universe which according to the laws of physics shouldn't actually exist.

Take a Quasar for example, the energy and pressures that are created at the centre of a Quasar is so violent it literally is incalculable.

Also if the Big Bang theory is to prevail (although I have my doubts about the theory) you would need to explain where out of nothing, did two particles happen to turn up and if they did, how does a Universe spill out of its guts, and on top of that, how realistically do two particles in the vastness of space collide at such a rate to cause a biblical explosion?

Yes I've heard the theory of "Only two physical bits of matter in a universe could have a gravitational attraction" ........... but honestly, does anyone believe that crap?

This is where it gets difficult because more intelligent people than us are in charge of the information, even if it makes no sense, even if the explanation feels like BS, we are simply not qualified to argue.

That is where it gets tricky, especially even when scientist don't agree between them.

As has been said already, we are not at a stage in our evolution where we can answer these questions, all we have atm is theories.
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