UK European Union in / out referendum

[jmiles10]

Also anyone that pulls out the racist card is an idiot.

What farage is saying actually is with the EU we have discriminated against lots of countries in the commonwealth and worldwide. That we our just as likely to take a WHITE Romanian who controls prostetution over a BLACK kenyan that wants to become a doctor

Should all the almost one million Brits in Spain be deported back to Britain then? Seeing as most of them are not skilled workers and a large number of them are retirees who've paid little or no tax in Spain? (Who are now sponging off the Spanish social care system)

....Awkward

What's awkward I never said deport anyone that is in UK. And more importantly me farage isn't saying that. But should Spain iin future take someone that's been on benefits for years or has a criminal record no.

But until they leave EU they won't be able to. And they need to leave EU far more than England. Unemployment is super high there especially with youth. Changing their currency like Portugal. Greece, Cyprus Italy has been a disaster for them. That's the EU for you an absolute disaster

[UFGN]

Also anyone that pulls out the racist card is an idiot.

What farage is saying actually is with the EU we have discriminated against lots of countries in the commonwealth and worldwide. That we our just as likely to take a WHITE Romanian who controls prostetution over a BLACK kenyan that wants to become a doctor

Should all the almost one million Brits in Spain be deported back to Britain then? Seeing as most of them are not skilled workers and a large number of them are retirees who've paid little or no tax in Spain? (Who are now sponging off the Spanish social care system)

....Awkward

What's awkward I never said deport anyone that is in UK. And more importantly me farage isn't saying that. But should Spain iin future take someone that's been on benefits for years or has a criminal record no.

But until they leave EU they won't be able to. And they need to leave EU far more than England. Unemployment is super high there especially with youth. Changing their currency like Portugal. Greece, Cyprus Italy has been a disaster for them. That's the EU for you an absolute disaster

The point is, you were clearly moaning about unskilled workers and "scroungers" when we have loads of our own in other EU countries.

[UFGN]

Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness.

Charlie Chaplin

[jmiles10]

Also anyone that pulls out the racist card is an idiot.

What farage is saying actually is with the EU we have discriminated against lots of countries in the commonwealth and worldwide. That we our just as likely to take a WHITE Romanian who controls prostetution over a BLACK kenyan that wants to become a doctor

Should all the almost one million Brits in Spain be deported back to Britain then? Seeing as most of them are not skilled workers and a large number of them are retirees who've paid little or no tax in Spain? (Who are now sponging off the Spanish social care system)

....Awkward

What's awkward I never said deport anyone that is in UK. And more importantly me farage isn't saying that. But should Spain iin future take someone that's been on benefits for years or has a criminal record no.

But until they leave EU they won't be able to. And they need to leave EU far more than England. Unemployment is super high there especially with youth. Changing their currency like Portugal. Greece, Cyprus Italy has been a disaster for them. That's the EU for you an absolute disaster

The point is, you were clearly moaning about unskilled workers and "scroungers" when we have loads of our own in other EU countries.

OK but I agree Spain or whatever country shouldn't have to take English unskilled scroungers.

[CukiZeGerman]

But until they leave EU they won't be able to. And they need to leave EU far more than England. Unemployment is super high there especially with youth. Changing their currency like Portugal. Greece, Cyprus Italy has been a disaster for them. That's the EU for you an absolute disaster

The problems of Greece, Portugal, Italy and Cyprus are not cause by the EU or because of the EU, let alone immigrant. The problems of each of those countries are - corruption, mismanagement, spending too heavily.

FFS. In my GF's home country there is a saying when you have heavy debts - "you're in debt as much as Greece" and the people have been saying that for more than 40 years (even before Greece joined the EU).

Just that now payday is comming for them and they don't have the money they borrowed.

We talked about this a few pages ago - the UK leaving the EU would be a big deal - economics, politics, immigration / emmigration. Lots of things to consider when talking about something like this...

[jmiles10]

But until they leave EU they won't be able to. And they need to leave EU far more than England. Unemployment is super high there especially with youth. Changing their currency like Portugal. Greece, Cyprus Italy has been a disaster for them. That's the EU for you an absolute disaster

The problems of Greece, Portugal, Italy and Cyprus are not cause by the EU or because of the EU, let alone immigrant. The problems of each of those countries are - corruption, mismanagement, spending too heavily.

FFS. In my GF's home country there is a saying when you have heavy debts - "you're in debt as much as Greece" and the people have been saying that for more than 40 years (even before Greece joined the EU).

Just that now payday is comming for them and they don't have the money they borrowed.

We talked about this a few pages ago - the UK leaving the EU would be a big deal - economics, politics, immigration / emmigration. Lots of things to consider when talking about something like this...

True corruption dosent help.

But you can't have the same interest rates for countries when they are performing so differently.

[UFGN]

But until they leave EU they won't be able to. And they need to leave EU far more than England. Unemployment is super high there especially with youth. Changing their currency like Portugal. Greece, Cyprus Italy has been a disaster for them. That's the EU for you an absolute disaster

The problems of Greece, Portugal, Italy and Cyprus are not cause by the EU or because of the EU, let alone immigrant. The problems of each of those countries are - corruption, mismanagement, spending too heavily.

FFS. In my GF's home country there is a saying when you have heavy debts - "you're in debt as much as Greece" and the people have been saying that for more than 40 years (even before Greece joined the EU).

Just that now payday is comming for them and they don't have the money they borrowed.

We talked about this a few pages ago - the UK leaving the EU would be a big deal - economics, politics, immigration / emmigration. Lots of things to consider when talking about something like this...

Absolutely right. Southern Europe's debt problems are caused by fraud and non-payment of taxes.

Ive been to San Fernando, Cadiz, which is the city in Spain with the worst unemployment figures in the whole country. Something like 40% unemployment.

I was dreading going cos i thought it would be a shithole and I'd end up getting shot or something. Nope. A nice smart city centre, all the shops open, people in the restaurants and bars. I asked about this and was told that everyone has a job in Cadiz but nobody pays income tax.

Its all "black market". And there, in a nutshell, is the problem.

[LMAO]

From an outsider's perspective, the UK would be completely stupid to leave the EU.

[CukiZeGerman]

True corruption dosent help.

But you can't have the same interest rates for countries when they are performing so differently.

And you also can't spend money which you don't have.
You also can't live luxuriously when you have to borrow money.

So many things that Greece / Italy / Spain did wrong and that have nothing to do with the EU. Rather, if it wasn't for the EU, Greece and Spain would probably already have gone bankrupt.

Does the EU have problems ? Yes it does, big ones.
But you haven't posted a SINGLE REASONABLE argument on this problems or why the UK should leave the EU.

All you said was pure xenophobic bullcrap - you wanted the unskilled immigrant workers gone because you hate rushhour (?!), and because getting an appointment at the doctors takes you 3 weeks (:lol:)

But you're also forgetting one big thing here.

less immigration = less emmigration

If England leaves the EU it'll be harder for others from other European countries to emmigrate to the UK, but it will also be harder for people from the UK to emmigrate into other European countries.

Meaning that rushhour would still be a big problem, and you'd still have to wait long for an appointment at the doctors.
Not to mention the economical, school etc benefits the UK would lose if you exit the EU.

It's a beneficial "relationship" for both parties.

The EU profits from the UK staying, and the UK profits from staying.

By leaving, both parties would lose something. The UK probably more than the EU.

[jmiles10]

True corruption dosent help.

But you can't have the same interest rates for countries when they are performing so differently.

And you also can't spend money which you don't have.
You also can't live luxuriously when you have to borrow money.

So many things that Greece / Italy / Spain did wrong and that have nothing to do with the EU. Rather, if it wasn't for the EU, Greece and Spain would probably already have gone bankrupt.

Does the EU have problems ? Yes it does, big ones.
But you haven't posted a SINGLE REASONABLE argument on this problems or why the UK should leave the EU.

All you said was pure xenophobic bullcrap - you wanted the unskilled immigrant workers gone because you hate rushhour (?!), and because getting an appointment at the doctors takes you 3 weeks (:lol:)

But you're also forgetting one big thing here.

less immigration = less emmigration

If England leaves the EU it'll be harder for others from other European countries to emmigrate to the UK, but it will also be harder for people from the UK to emmigrate into other European countries.

Meaning that rushhour would still be a big problem, and you'd still have to wait long for an appointment at the doctors.
Not to mention the economical, school etc benefits the UK would lose if you exit the EU.

It's a beneficial "relationship" for both parties.

The EU profits from the UK staying, and the UK profits from staying.

By leaving, both parties would lose something. The UK probably more than the EU.

I don't want anyone deported, if you are here you are here. This is about the future not what's already occurred.

Yeah I understand leaving the EU isn't going to magicly mean appointments for doctors will go down. But you heard of the term damage limitation. 3 weeks will quickly turn into 5 weeks at the rate immigration is going. Your philosophy is like well things are already f***ked so you might as well not care if it gets even more f***ked.

How many people you think from the UK want to emigrate to Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech republic, Poland, Romania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Austria and Malta ffs. My guess the amount of immigration from Poland alone will be far more than the amount of UK people emigrating to them countries above.

I have no problem with low skilled workers. Although mass immigration in the low skilled market does compress wage earnings. Because there is a lot more people than jobs and people from poorer countries will be happy to work for peanuts. So the minimum wage becomes a top wage. Which just suits big corporations creating poor wealth distribution.

Anyway I am no economic guru but I will link you a perspective about UK leaving EU.

http://www.globalbritain.co.uk/news/bri ... free-trade

Anyway of course UK want good trade with Europe, considering its beneficial to bot parties however UK imports more than export, UK has good strength in negotiation

[CukiZeGerman]

This is about the future not what's already occurred.

I was talking about the future.

Maybe you missed the part:

less immigration = less emigration

If England leaves the EU it'll be harder for others from other European countries to emigrate to the UK, but it will also be harder for people from the UK to emigrate into other European countries

The point for the FUTURE still stands.

IF the UK leaves the EU (and brings new immigration laws) there will be less immigration into the UK, but there will also be less emigration from the UK.

Meaning you haven't done anything about crowd control.

Yeah I understand leaving the EU isn't going to magicly mean appointments for doctors will go down.

Judging by your posts, I don't think you do.

But you heard of the term damage limitation.

So leaving the EU and banning immigrants would be "damage limitation" ?
How so ?

3 weeks will quickly turn into 5 weeks at the rate immigration is going.

a) that doesn't have to do much with immigrants
b) even if the immigrant rates are lowered you will still have the same problem. There may not be new immigrant, but there will be people who won't emigrate. And you're still stuck at the same point.

Your philosophy is like well things are already f***ked so you might as well not care if it gets even more f***ked.

That's not my philosophy at all.
I'm simply thinking about both possible scenarios whilist you're simply thinking about one scenario and completely ignoring the other just to make a point.

How many people you think from the UK want to emigrate to Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech republic, Poland, Romania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Austria and Malta ffs.

And how many people from the UK want to (and already have) emigrate to Germany, France, Spain etc. ?
Again, you're using one possible scenario to make a point, and ignoring the other scenario.

My guess the amount of immigration from Poland alone will be far more than the amount of UK people emigrating to them countries above.

According to gov.uk the yearl emigration rate from the UK is avg. 400k people.
Most of them for work. What are you going to do about them once the emigration is harder ? Ever thought abotu that ?

Anyway I am no economic guru but I will link you a perspective about UK leaving EU.

http://www.globalbritain.co.uk/news/bri ... free-trade

One question here - on what would Britain base it's economy (which products exactly) ?

[jmiles10]

The net migration is still high so less emmigration is balanced out by less immigration. Also a fair percentage of them figures account for immigrants that want to return to their home country. Plus not all of them figures are to EU countries, a lot are to united states, australia, China, Japan which changes nothing. British passport worldwide can pretty much help you anywhere

In fact English people mainly in terms of EU countries want to migrate to countries like France, germany and Spain. A lot of them are retired people that want to buy property meaning they also go to these countries with money and want to actually make a significant financial contribution to the economy so its not a negative to allow these people to migrate.

Also in terms of work force emigrating compared to immigrations , we lose far more skilled workers than bringing in people from countries where UK minimum wage is paradise in relation to their country. Better for us to keep skilled people. But anyway take Germany relatively aging population, they need good young skilled workers so its not in their Interest to not take skilled UK workers.

Fishing is Norway's 2nd biggest export, we have vast waters that have to be shared with EU countries killing our fishing industry and norway have higher GDP than any of the big EU countries.

Shale gas

I don't have issue with UK staying in EU but we need big reforms.

[Yago]

arguing with ukip voters isnt the smartest thing to do guys

[UFGN]

arguing with ukip voters isnt the smartest thing to do guys

What makes me laugh is they seem to believe they're the "voice of the silent majority", when they're actually nothing of the sort. As this coming referendum will demonstrate once amd for all.

[jmiles10]

EU is very good except free movement of people. It's not sustainable long term.

Basicly between the EU countries in mainland Europe what's the point of borders might as well literally be once country calledd Europe no?

In 50 years time there will be no one left in countries like Romania it will be a case of last person don't forget to turn all the lights of.