UK European Union in / out referendum

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Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union?

Yes
22
37%
No
38
63%
 
Total votes : 60

UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby UFGN » Tue May 19, 2015 11:41 pm

It now seems certain that there will be a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU in the next two years.

I for one strongly support the EU, and I'll set out my main arguments here :

IMMIGRATION

As I've previously said on this subject,

Is immigration an entirely positive thing? No.

Did we have mass immigration before the EU? Yes. Irish, Jewish, West Indian, indian, Pakistani, Australian and many more have come in very large numbers at various points of recent history

Will immigration stop if we leave the EU? No. Of course not. People have always come here in large numbers and always will


In addition to that, i would point out that it's a myth that the UK has more EU immigrants than other countries. Germany, Sweden and France all have more than the UK.

BRITS LIVING ABROAD

There are around 2 million Brits living in other EU countries, including nearly 1 million in Spain. Freedom of movement works both ways

ECONOMY

Being in the EU is hugely important for the UK economy. Particularly for companies who export and for the financial services industry in London.

SCOTLAND AND THE FUTURE OF THE UK

If you want to live in a nightmarish, right wing micro-state, then by all means vote to leave the EU. A vote to leave would almost certainly trigger a second Scottish independence vote and I'm guessing it would be yes to independence this time. A Tory infested Little England, out of Europe and separated from a pro-Europe Scotland? Just dreadful.

Finally, please remember how the EU came about. Eighty million people died in world wars one and two. Eighty f***ing million people. Now, just seventy years later we can live as equals in each others' countries. Its amazing. An amazing, wonderful thing. Don't throw it away over petty small minded nationalism.

SUPPORT THE EU!
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby jmiles10 » Wed May 20, 2015 11:50 am

Personally on immigration I think Australian point system for the future would be better. If someone comes having a skill and trade should be important.

At the moment the population number is OK. But sometimes I drive in traffic and think if the rate of immigration continues people might struggle to get to work in 20 years lol.

Also call up for a gp appointment they say 2-3 weeks these days sometimes, now if you tell them you got a lump the size of a golf ball they will make you a quicker appointment but surely the health system can't be sustainable forever.

I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us

No racism for me I am just thinking how long the UK can sustain what its doing right now.
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby UFGN » Wed May 20, 2015 11:58 am

jmiles10 wrote:Personally on immigration I think Australian point system for the future would be better. If someone comes having a skill and trade should be important.

At the moment the population number is OK. But sometimes I drive in traffic and think if the rate of immigration continues people might struggle to get to work in 20 years lol.

Also call up for a gp appointment they say 2-3 weeks these days sometimes, now if you tell them you got a lump the size of a golf ball they will make you a quicker appointment but surely the health system can't be sustainable forever.

I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us

No racism for me I am just thinking how long the UK can sustain what its doing right now.


On the issue of GPs its got a lot more to do with there being thousands of vacancies in GP surgeries because doctors don't want the jobs. Thats a training and retention issue for the NHS. Immigration is a factor but that's a much bigger factor.
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby Schlandi » Wed May 20, 2015 12:27 pm

jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby jmiles10 » Wed May 20, 2015 1:07 pm

SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html


Its a very important relationship I don't think leaving EU would affect it
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby Schlandi » Wed May 20, 2015 3:32 pm

jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html


Its a very important relationship I don't think leaving EU would affect it

Well it definitely would because trading with a none EU member will be affected by tariffs and the EU already mentioned that there will be tariffs if the UK leaves. A lot of the german banks already mentioned they would bail out immediately from London if the UK leaves the EU too.
The EU also protect their members with "tariff protection" so also a lot of manufacturing companies will have to go.
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#GoonersWorldExcuses
- Their goalkeerper had the game of his life
- We should have had 10+ penalties .. shit ref
- If long term injured player xyz would have been available we would have won easily
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby Royal Gooner » Wed May 20, 2015 10:33 pm

SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html


Its a very important relationship I don't think leaving EU would affect it

Well it definitely would because trading with a none EU member will be affected by tariffs and the EU already mentioned that there will be tariffs if the UK leaves. A lot of the german banks already mentioned they would bail out immediately from London if the UK leaves the EU too.
The EU also protect their members with "tariff protection" so also a lot of manufacturing companies will have to go.

The EU is a big protection racket, we all knew that. But if we leave, we'll be able to negotiate our own trade deals and forge closer economic ties with the Commonwealth, which is somewhat larger than the EU. Given that the UK provides 16% of the EU's gdp, they cannot afford to lose us so they really should consider renegotiating some of those outdated treaties.
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby jmiles10 » Thu May 21, 2015 1:48 am

SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html


Its a very important relationship I don't think leaving EU would affect it

Well it definitely would because trading with a none EU member will be affected by tariffs and the EU already mentioned that there will be tariffs if the UK leaves. A lot of the german banks already mentioned they would bail out immediately from London if the UK leaves the EU too.
The EU also protect their members with "tariff protection" so also a lot of manufacturing companies will have to go.


Of course we will be threatensd, but like i say what interest would it be for Germany to price us out of their car market and we just go to america and Asia where we can trade with them with no tarrifs. Who loses?
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby UFGN » Thu May 21, 2015 2:10 am

jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html


Its a very important relationship I don't think leaving EU would affect it

Well it definitely would because trading with a none EU member will be affected by tariffs and the EU already mentioned that there will be tariffs if the UK leaves. A lot of the german banks already mentioned they would bail out immediately from London if the UK leaves the EU too.
The EU also protect their members with "tariff protection" so also a lot of manufacturing companies will have to go.


Of course we will be threatensd, but like i say what interest would it be for Germany to price us out of their car market and we just go to america and Asia where we can trade with them with no tarrifs. Who loses?


Tariffs would be on our exports, not things we import.
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby jmiles10 » Thu May 21, 2015 6:16 pm

UFGN wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:I don't know to much on business impacts of leaving EU, but look how many German cars we bring in for example, certainly far more than Germany taking cara from us. So it would be negative for them not to have good trading rules with us


Economic relations (briefly and succinctly)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/Laender/Laenderinfos/01-Nodes/Grossbritannien_node.html


Its a very important relationship I don't think leaving EU would affect it

Well it definitely would because trading with a none EU member will be affected by tariffs and the EU already mentioned that there will be tariffs if the UK leaves. A lot of the german banks already mentioned they would bail out immediately from London if the UK leaves the EU too.
The EU also protect their members with "tariff protection" so also a lot of manufacturing companies will have to go.


Of course we will be threatensd, but like i say what interest would it be for Germany to price us out of their car market and we just go to america and Asia where we can trade with them with no tarrifs. Who loses?


Tariffs would be on our exports, not things we import.

For sure but I mean its unlikely we would trade as much under them terms especially as we could have no tarrifs to rest of the world and, which would effect eu as we buy a lot, so if we leave I would be confident good trade deals would be sorted out.
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby CukiZeGerman » Thu May 21, 2015 6:35 pm

jmiles10 wrote:For sure but I mean its unlikely we would trade as much under them terms especially as we could have no tarrifs to rest of the world and, which would effect eu as we buy a lot, so if we leave I would be confident good trade deals would be sorted out.


I think that you missed the point by a mile mate.

No country is trading anything with another country without tariffs. But trading tariffs between EU countries are lower than trading tariffs between non-EU countries.

As England currently is in the EU the trading tariffs between England, and say Germany are lower than they would be if England (or Germany for that matter) wasn't in the EU.

If Englands exits the EU the trading tariffs between England and EU countries will rise up. Meaning that the prices of things imported from EU countries would spike up. The biggest industry in Germany is probably the car industry. So, IF England exits the EU, the prices of cars imported to England from Germany would go way higher than they are at the moment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... epens.html

England exiting the EU would be a huge blow for both English and German economy, tho' I do belive that the German economy would be able to regenerate faster...
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby jmiles10 » Thu May 21, 2015 7:03 pm

CukiZeGerman wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:For sure but I mean its unlikely we would trade as much under them terms especially as we could have no tarrifs to rest of the world and, which would effect eu as we buy a lot, so if we leave I would be confident good trade deals would be sorted out.


I think that you missed the point by a mile mate.

No country is trading anything with another country without tariffs. But trading tariffs between EU countries are lower than trading tariffs between non-EU countries.

As England currently is in the EU the trading tariffs between England, and say Germany are lower than they would be if England (or Germany for that matter) wasn't in the EU.

If Englands exits the EU the trading tariffs between England and EU countries will rise up. Meaning that the prices of things imported from EU countries would spike up. The biggest industry in Germany is probably the car industry. So, IF England exits the EU, the prices of cars imported to England from Germany would go way higher than they are at the moment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... epens.html

England exiting the EU would be a huge blow for both English and German economy, tho' I do belive that the German economy would be able to regenerate faster...



OK but I am saying if the prices of Germans cars increased, how many people going to buy them in UK they aren't exactly cheap as it is. Them countries in Asia use ridiculous cheap labour and sell cars quite competitively as it is. If UK left EU and improved trades with Asian countries wouldn't it be even worse for the German car market?

Tbh i dont no eu rules well a guy above said uk wouldnt be charged for imports anyway only exports, though what i do no is UK don't have that much control on numbers and who is aloud in to the country and ceritan laws. Every country is different and should govern themselves. Some countries need strong dictators or hell breaks loose
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby CukiZeGerman » Thu May 21, 2015 7:28 pm

jmiles10 wrote:OK but I am saying if the prices of Germans cars increased, how many people going to buy them in UK they aren't exactly cheap as it is. Them countries in Asia use ridiculous cheap labour and sell cars quite competitively as it is. If UK left EU and improved trades with Asian countries wouldn't it be even worse for the German car market?


That is the point. Imported cars aren't cheap as it is. If England exits the EU, cars imported from Germany will spike in price even more.
About the German car market - German cars are popular everywhere. I think that Mercedes is more popular in China / Japana than their own brands.
England isn't the primary market of the German car manufacturers. Even if England exits the EU, I doubt it will be a huge blow for VAG, Mercedes or BMW.


jmiles10 wrote:Tbh i dont no eu rules well a guy above said uk wouldnt be charged for imports anyway only exports, though what i do no is UK don't have that much control on numbers and who is aloud in to the country and ceritan laws. Every country is different and should govern themselves. Some countries need strong dictators or hell breaks loose


Again, I don't think you got the point of the discussion at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_tariff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_market

Read up on it mate.
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby jmiles10 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:30 pm

CukiZeGerman wrote:
jmiles10 wrote:OK but I am saying if the prices of Germans cars increased, how many people going to buy them in UK they aren't exactly cheap as it is. Them countries in Asia use ridiculous cheap labour and sell cars quite competitively as it is. If UK left EU and improved trades with Asian countries wouldn't it be even worse for the German car market?


That is the point. Imported cars aren't cheap as it is. If England exits the EU, cars imported from Germany will spike in price even more.
About the German car market - German cars are popular everywhere. I think that Mercedes is more popular in China / Japana than their own brands.
England isn't the primary market of the German car manufacturers. Even if England exits the EU, I doubt it will be a huge blow for VAG, Mercedes or BMW.


jmiles10 wrote:Tbh i dont no eu rules well a guy above said uk wouldnt be charged for imports anyway only exports, though what i do no is UK don't have that much control on numbers and who is aloud in to the country and ceritan laws. Every country is different and should govern themselves. Some countries need strong dictators or hell breaks loose


Again, I don't think you got the point of the discussion at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_tariff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_market

Read up on it mate.
I will read that later but the discussions is should uk be in eu. Forget cars or economics my concern is health system being sustainable, it takes 3 weeks to get an appointment as it is, simply to many people. And it's not going to get better. Traffic jams in the country our crazy and its going to get worse people might struggle to get to work in 20 years. Common market is fine we should have good links with Germany, France etc. but no control over who we bring is the problem, uk don't need any more builders or someone to open a kebab shop they need doctors instead
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Re: UK European Union in / out referendum

Postby CukiZeGerman » Thu May 21, 2015 9:23 pm

jmiles10 wrote:I will read that later but the discussions is should uk be in eu. Forget cars or economics my concern is health system being sustainable, it takes 3 weeks to get an appointment as it is, simply to many people. And it's not going to get better. Traffic jams in the country our crazy and its going to get worse people might struggle to get to work in 20 years. Common market is fine we should have good links with Germany, France etc. but no control over who we bring is the problem, uk don't need any more builders or someone to open a kebab shop they need doctors instead


The discussion has been about england leaving the EU the entire time.
Economics play the biggest role in this discussion.
Not only taxes that England collects from imports, but also a lot of jobs. I'd guess that at least 500k to 1 mil jobs depend on England staying / leaving in the EU, which is a pretty big number in normal circumstances. In times of crisis it's a huge number.

How traffic jams and the lack of medical staff tho is related with England staying / leaving the EU is a mistery to me.
I'm pretty sure that there were jams on the streets even before England joined the EU, and even if England leaves, there will still be traffic jams.
Same goes for problems with medical staff.
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