American Politics

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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 am

EliteKiller wrote:Get away from left and right and consider the madness ...

Impeachment was only supposed to be used as a last resort by a bipartisan legislative branch of US democracy ... now it's become just a political tool used by the party with the majority to attack the president.

If by some miracle the Reps win either the House or the Senate in the mid-terms then Biden impeachment (on some entirely spurious charge) will no doubt soon follow ... and so it will go on.

US Democracy it's fast becoming a joke.


Becoming?

:doh:

That boat has long sailed, remember Florida, even that looks like a picnic compared to now.

What about Saint Obama telling women and children to drink posionous water?

No, like I said, long gone.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:38 am

jayramfootball wrote:
LMAO wrote:Liz Cheney will vote to impeach Trump tomorrow, becoming the highest ranking (#3) House Republican so far to come out in favor and the second House Republican after John Katko. Like rats fleeing a sinking ship.

Saw somewhere that said: "The first impeachment was an indictment of Trump. The second impeachment is an indictment of the Republican Party."

Had the GOP voted to impeach (other than Amash before he jumped ship and joined the Libertarians) and convict (other than Romney) Trump last year, most of this could've been prevented.

Need to also throw Section 3 of the 14th Amendment at the 139 Representatives and 8 Senators who went along with this massive voter fraud charade by voting against the presidential certification.


You are insane.
A good example of what happens when the far left get a sniff of power.
Utterly insane.
They make good bedfellows with the far-right which is probably why the like of Richard Spencer endorsed Biden.


You are an absolute mong if you actually believe the far-left has a sniff of power.

Also, Biden swiftly rejected Spencer's endorsement. But I wouldn't expect a terrorist sympathizer to know that.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:45 am

jayramfootball wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
LMAO wrote:Liz Cheney will vote to impeach Trump tomorrow, becoming the highest ranking (#3) House Republican so far to come out in favor and the second House Republican after John Katko. Like rats fleeing a sinking ship.

Saw somewhere that said: "The first impeachment was an indictment of Trump. The second impeachment is an indictment of the Republican Party."

Had the GOP voted to impeach (other than Amash before he jumped ship and joined the Libertarians) and convict (other than Romney) Trump last year, most of this could've been prevented.

Need to also throw Section 3 of the 14th Amendment at the 139 Representatives and 8 Senators who went along with this massive voter fraud charade by voting against the presidential certification.


Couldn't impeach him while he was in power so now they just want to give him a kick out the door .......... he already lost the election, they're only doing this now because his power base has fallen out from under him.

He's out the door whenever you guys get round eventually to crowning Biden.

See how nonsense your system is, how can a guy win an election but the other guy stays in power for months? what if Trump tried to push through loads of last orders because he knew he wasn't coming back?

Ridiculous system, just like your country.


It is a terrible system. Over 2 months from an election to the winner taking office.
As we saw in 2016, all kinds of havoc can be set up to 'welcome' the new administration.
It'll probably be the same this time around.

As for Democrats and Republicans pushing impeachment with literally 7 days left of the term, it's not only stupid it also sets an amazingly bad precedent. Now impeachment is apparently for the actions of your supporters - bizarre.
I bet not one of them - and very few in this thread - actually understand what impeachment is supposed to be for.


And another idiotic statement from our esteemed enlightened centrist.

"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

If they don't impeach Trump, then it just signals that this type of behavior (i.e., inciting an insurrection) is okay. But again, I wouldn't expect a terrorist sympathizer to understand.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:53 am

DiamondGooner wrote:"

Dana is rich enough that he can quit whenever he wants, he's his own boss because he runs the show, yes UFC has "owners" it always did even under the Fertittas,


The Fertittas were the owners of the UFC, there were no other owners. Lorenzo was the chairman and CEO.

Yes Dana has a lot of leeway since he's the face of the company, my point is he could still be censored or reprimanded by higher ups if he said something they didn't like since he's not the head honcho.

I just think it's disingenuous to suggest Billichick only rejected the Medal of Freedom because he's afraid of how it would look.

There are a lot of people who genuinely dislike Trump.
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:50 am

LMAO wrote:And another idiotic statement from our esteemed enlightened centrist.

"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

If they don't impeach Trump, then it just signals that this type of behavior (i.e., inciting an insurrection) is okay. But again, I wouldn't expect a terrorist sympathizer to understand.



High crimes and misdemeanours - like the fake Ukraine impeachment?

When they don't impeach Trump then he will stand in 2024 and the voters will reject him - that's how democracy works in any normal country.

If he'd committed a crime he'd have been arrested but there is no crime (ranting on the internet is not yet a crime) so instead a political trial will ensue which will most likely fail unless it suits the Republicans to have him barred from future candidacy - but that decision will be 100% political and 100% not democratic ...

You OK with that?
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:18 am

EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:And another idiotic statement from our esteemed enlightened centrist.

"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

If they don't impeach Trump, then it just signals that this type of behavior (i.e., inciting an insurrection) is okay. But again, I wouldn't expect a terrorist sympathizer to understand.



High crimes and misdemeanours - like the fake Ukraine impeachment?

When they don't impeach Trump then he will stand in 2024 and the voters will reject him - that's how democracy works in any normal country.

If he'd committed a crime he'd have been arrested but there is no crime (ranting on the internet is not yet a crime) so instead a political trial will ensue which will most likely fail unless it suits the Republicans to have him barred from future candidacy - but that decision will be 100% political and 100% not democratic ...

You OK with that?


Fake Ukraine impeachment? Was Trump getting impeached on two charges relating to Ukraine a figment of my imagination?

Trump will be impeached (again) tomorrow.

Arrested for committing a crime? DOJ policy says that a sitting president can't be legally indicted or arrested. They either need to be impeached and removed from office first or leave office at the conclusion of their term(s).

It's why we have the 14th Amendment:
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3 wrote:No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

While an impeachment conviction requires a 2/3 majority from the Senate, this only requires a simple majority from the House and the Senate and for the courts to sign off on. It's a mechanism of our democracy and would be the first time it's been used in over 100 years. I'm perfectly okay with it if that's the direction Congress and the courts want to go in. After all, we voted in our legislators to also uphold the Constitution.
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:50 am

LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:And another idiotic statement from our esteemed enlightened centrist.

"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

If they don't impeach Trump, then it just signals that this type of behavior (i.e., inciting an insurrection) is okay. But again, I wouldn't expect a terrorist sympathizer to understand.



High crimes and misdemeanours - like the fake Ukraine impeachment?

When they don't impeach Trump then he will stand in 2024 and the voters will reject him - that's how democracy works in any normal country.

If he'd committed a crime he'd have been arrested but there is no crime (ranting on the internet is not yet a crime) so instead a political trial will ensue which will most likely fail unless it suits the Republicans to have him barred from future candidacy - but that decision will be 100% political and 100% not democratic ...

You OK with that?


Fake Ukraine impeachment? Was Trump getting impeached on two charges relating to Ukraine a figment of my imagination?

Trump will be impeached (again) tomorrow.

Arrested for committing a crime? DOJ policy says that a sitting president can't be legally indicted or arrested. They either need to be impeached and removed from office first or leave office at the conclusion of their term(s).

It's why we have the 14th Amendment:
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3 wrote:No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

While an impeachment conviction requires a 2/3 majority from the Senate, this only requires a simple majority from the House and the Senate and for the courts to sign off on. It's a mechanism of our democracy and would be the first time it's been used in over 100 years. I'm perfectly okay with it if that's the direction Congress and the courts want to go in. After all, we voted in our legislators to also uphold the Constitution.


I get what you're saying but to deny that this is purely political is dodgy ground .... even Trump has the right of "innocent until proven guilty" the Ukraine charges were ultimately thrown out so he remains innocent.

There is no chance that Trump will be impeached by both houses whilst still in office, not enough time, therefore the day he leaves office he can be arrested and charged, the problem is he hasn't broken the law to the extent that any prosecutor would take to court - mad ranting on the internet is not yet a crime - you would have a near impossible job to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Trump intended unknown internet readers to commit violent crimes, if that were the case half the country would be under arrest.

So once Trump becomes an "ordinary" citizen in 12 days time there is almost no possibility of a conviction ... don't think anyone is denying that.

That only leaves a political conviction which is solely aimed at banning Trump from running in 2024, removing him as President when he will no longer be the President? what's the point? - So it's a political trial, and one that only works if the Reps also agree that Trump running in 2024 is bad for them. So the Dems and the Reps will need to collude to get a 2/3rds majority and deny the voters an opportunity to again reject Trump.

Frankly what are they trying to achieve? divide the nation? create a violent civil uprising?

Trump has been rejected by the voters, just ignore the idiot and he will fade away, if he wants to run in 2024 let him try, he will get crushed at the polls - just what are the politicians so afraid of?
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:54 am

Even the military has come out and said f**k this:
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Goodbye and good riddance to Trump in politics.

Now to make sure no more fascists come after him.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:11 am

EliteKiller wrote:
That only leaves a political conviction which is solely aimed at banning Trump from running in 2024, removing him as President when he will no longer be the President? what's the point? - So it's a political trial, and one that only works if the Reps also agree that Trump running in 2024 is bad for them. So the Dems and the Reps will need to collude to get a 2/3rds majority and deny the voters an opportunity to again reject Trump.

Frankly what are they trying to achieve? divide the nation? create a violent civil uprising?

Trump has been rejected by the voters, just ignore the idiot and he will fade away, if he wants to run in 2024 let him try, he will get crushed at the polls - just what are the politicians so afraid of?


It's to show that that type of behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. If he isn't impeached for sedition or inciting an insurrection, then what's to stop the next guy from coming in and doing the same if actions don't have consequences? But yes, he's never going to be convicted before he leaves office, or at all. There isn't enough time since the Senate doesn't reconvene until the 19th. It does serve a purpose though: the GOP senators will go on record as supporting what happened or being remembered in the history books as having a spine by putting country before party.

As much as we'd all love it right now, Trump can't be ignored. He should get his day in court, but we can't begin healing as a nation until the people responsible for this past Wednesday are held accountable. It's one of the reasons I'm still upset at Obama for not holding Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al. accountable for the lies that led to the Iraq War. We need to stop letting presidents and their administrations be unaccountable and do whatever they want carte blanche.
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:08 am

LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
That only leaves a political conviction which is solely aimed at banning Trump from running in 2024, removing him as President when he will no longer be the President? what's the point? - So it's a political trial, and one that only works if the Reps also agree that Trump running in 2024 is bad for them. So the Dems and the Reps will need to collude to get a 2/3rds majority and deny the voters an opportunity to again reject Trump.

Frankly what are they trying to achieve? divide the nation? create a violent civil uprising?

Trump has been rejected by the voters, just ignore the idiot and he will fade away, if he wants to run in 2024 let him try, he will get crushed at the polls - just what are the politicians so afraid of?


It's to show that that type of behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. If he isn't impeached for sedition or inciting an insurrection, then what's to stop the next guy from coming in and doing the same if actions don't have consequences? But yes, he's never going to be convicted before he leaves office, or at all. There isn't enough time since the Senate doesn't reconvene until the 19th. It does serve a purpose though: the GOP senators will go on record as supporting what happened or being remembered in the history books as having a spine by putting country before party.

As much as we'd all love it right now, Trump can't be ignored. He should get his day in court, but we can't begin healing as a nation until the people responsible for this past Wednesday are held accountable. It's one of the reasons I'm still upset at Obama for not holding Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al. accountable for the lies that led to the Iraq War. We need to stop letting presidents and their administrations be unaccountable and do whatever they want carte blanche.


Again I get what you're saying just fundamentally disagree - turning Trump into a martyr for what appears to be a frighteningly large chunk of the US voters is very dangerous - the reason all previous Presidents have been allowed to take their sins to the grave with them is exactly that.

With very little effort you can find alleged acts of "sedition or inciting an insurrection" in even the most honourably past presidents - but doing so serves very little purpose ...

The point of a democracy is that the people decide - either put ex-president Trump in a proper trial - or just let it go. far from deterring others holding political trials has throughout history had the exact opposite effect ... to believe this time it will be any different, that's just wishful thinking.

If Trump had won the election then fair enough impeachment - but of course if Trump had won this wouldn't be happening - evidence, if any was needed, that it's all about the politics and not breaking the law.
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:57 am

LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
That only leaves a political conviction which is solely aimed at banning Trump from running in 2024, removing him as President when he will no longer be the President? what's the point? - So it's a political trial, and one that only works if the Reps also agree that Trump running in 2024 is bad for them. So the Dems and the Reps will need to collude to get a 2/3rds majority and deny the voters an opportunity to again reject Trump.

Frankly what are they trying to achieve? divide the nation? create a violent civil uprising?

Trump has been rejected by the voters, just ignore the idiot and he will fade away, if he wants to run in 2024 let him try, he will get crushed at the polls - just what are the politicians so afraid of?


It's to show that that type of behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. If he isn't impeached for sedition or inciting an insurrection, then what's to stop the next guy from coming in and doing the same if actions don't have consequences? But yes, he's never going to be convicted before he leaves office, or at all. There isn't enough time since the Senate doesn't reconvene until the 19th. It does serve a purpose though: the GOP senators will go on record as supporting what happened or being remembered in the history books as having a spine by putting country before party.

As much as we'd all love it right now, Trump can't be ignored. He should get his day in court, but we can't begin healing as a nation until the people responsible for this past Wednesday are held accountable. It's one of the reasons I'm still upset at Obama for not holding Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al. accountable for the lies that led to the Iraq War. We need to stop letting presidents and their administrations be unaccountable and do whatever they want carte blanche.


The insanity continues, lol.
Apparently questioning the election results - an absolute right - is sedition and requires ' a day in court' :rofll: ... but only of course if an election the left won is questioned. Other way around? Fair game... for an entire term no less.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:27 am

LMAO wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
LMAO wrote:Liz Cheney will vote to impeach Trump tomorrow, becoming the highest ranking (#3) House Republican so far to come out in favor and the second House Republican after John Katko. Like rats fleeing a sinking ship.

Saw somewhere that said: "The first impeachment was an indictment of Trump. The second impeachment is an indictment of the Republican Party."

Had the GOP voted to impeach (other than Amash before he jumped ship and joined the Libertarians) and convict (other than Romney) Trump last year, most of this could've been prevented.

Need to also throw Section 3 of the 14th Amendment at the 139 Representatives and 8 Senators who went along with this massive voter fraud charade by voting against the presidential certification.


Couldn't impeach him while he was in power so now they just want to give him a kick out the door .......... he already lost the election, they're only doing this now because his power base has fallen out from under him.

He's out the door whenever you guys get round eventually to crowning Biden.

See how nonsense your system is, how can a guy win an election but the other guy stays in power for months? what if Trump tried to push through loads of last orders because he knew he wasn't coming back?

Ridiculous system, just like your country.


It is a terrible system. Over 2 months from an election to the winner taking office.
As we saw in 2016, all kinds of havoc can be set up to 'welcome' the new administration.
It'll probably be the same this time around.

As for Democrats and Republicans pushing impeachment with literally 7 days left of the term, it's not only stupid it also sets an amazingly bad precedent. Now impeachment is apparently for the actions of your supporters - bizarre.
I bet not one of them - and very few in this thread - actually understand what impeachment is supposed to be for.


And another idiotic statement from our esteemed enlightened centrist.

"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

If they don't impeach Trump, then it just signals that this type of behavior (i.e., inciting an insurrection) is okay. But again, I wouldn't expect a terrorist sympathizer to understand.


Your response shows that you are ignorant of any understanding of impeachment - as I suspected.
In this situation (as was the case with the Ukraine impeachment) there is no treason., there is no bribery, there is no high crime.
Which leaves misdemeanors.
For those of us who actually understand that term and it's context as discussed at the time of it's writing - we know that it is also not relevant.

Democrats - some of them have even said this - seem to believe that impeachment is whatever the House decides is relevant. Procedurally that is true, but it is also entirely unconstitutional.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:48 am

Who said on Twitter "Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts" - should the CEO's have had it flagged as untrue, and then had the account blocked for incitement ? what do you think?
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:12 pm

EliteKiller wrote:Who said on Twitter "Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts" - should the CEO's have had it flagged as untrue, and then had the account blocked for incitement ? what do you think?


In today's world, it depends entirely on which election was being questioned.
Apparently, if it's 2020, the above statement is treason and sedition.
If it was said about 2016, it was "saving democracy".
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:54 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Who said on Twitter "Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts" - should the CEO's have had it flagged as untrue, and then had the account blocked for incitement ? what do you think?


In today's world, it depends entirely on which election was being questioned.
Apparently, if it's 2020, the above statement is treason and sedition.
If it was said about 2016, it was "saving democracy".


Didn't Hilary concede the following day?
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