American Politics

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Re: American Politics

Postby Dejan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:59 pm

UFGN wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:News from Iran is that Soleimani quit smoking yesterday. :1970_two_smileys_drinking_beer_together.gif:


How the lefties can condone terrorism by Iran is beyond comprehension. Well I guess if Trump takes any action any place on anything they will be opposed.

At least those of us who have actually fought in that God forsaken desert, who have lost brothers in arms to this blown to smithereens c*** understand. One would imagine anyone living in London would get it...



Ok Boomer

I condemn all terrorism

Meanwhile, you bang on about the left every day like a first class fruit loop

To wheel out your dead comrades as political collateral is pretty f***ing low. You think that earns you respect? Well sorry, try again

Your decision to go and fight other peoples' wars in the desert for £18K p/a doesn't make your opinion worth more than any other tax payer who involuntarily paid for your uniform, ammo and wages.


Actually the only reasonable response to your post is to tell you to f**k off. You don’t understand the this situation by a long shot. So f**k off.


Yeah tbf I do also have a query about it.

Terrorism by Iran?

When did Iran ever attack UK or US soil? if your talking about current terrorism I take it your referring to them funding Hezbollah the guys who fight against Israel who is kicking them out of their own land right?

I am sensitive to the fact that you possibly lost friends out there but that is the key word though for me ..........."out there", your in someone else's land you consider a "God forsaken desert" but that is someone else's home, and it wasn't a god forsaken desert until America blew their modern cities to rubble.

One fact is indisputable, America has been spoiling to get at Iran for years, them assassinating one of their top generals is purely for provocation ........... the excuse Trump wheeled out as "he was planning strikes on Americans" is fkin laughable to the point where a member of Americas military told a journalist the chances of this were to put it delicately .......... "Razor thin".


This is my leg after my van was hit by an Iranian RPG. The incident was terror attack in a country not involved in the fight, but rather one where warfare refugees were being taken care of in camps. I lost two comrades, both US citizens, one a US soldier. At least 10 civilians behind my vehicle were killed by an RPG that missed us. The two bad guys we shot were later determined to be an Iranian (Egyptian nationals) operatives from a proxy terror force funded by Iran.

Iran currently has proxy fighters including members of the Revolutionary Guard subverting governments and killing locals in over 18 sovereign nations. That is how they operate, that is what Soleimani' function in life was, to coordinate and fund proxy fighters with which to spread Iranian theological and imperialist agenda.

BTW, The US nor the UK has conducted military operations inside Iran. But will if required to now. The strike on Soleimani was in response to the recent series of Iranian attacks. The US has not been itching for a war with Iran, that is utter BS. The US has been under attack from Iran for forty years in one way or another. The response has actually been restrained. Iran has been warned in no uncertain terms and they understand that the days of appeasement are over under Trump. 15 missiles which have an accuracy of plus or minus 1.25 miles is face saving, and perhaps regime saving in that they all missed. Had they hit Iran's oil exports and production would have been and still could be demolished. They know it, and their failing economy would end the Mullah's reign.

Why any person with a semblance of common sense would side with a terrorist nation is beyond me.

I stand by my description of that general region as Godforsaken because it is. From Libya to Nigeria, from Pakistan to Turkey Islamic Fundamentalist has made life hell for many millions of people. The only reason anyone cares is because the oil which propels the global economy. It is the reason that the west propped up Saddam against Iran, it is the reason the west took Saddam out after he invaded Kuwait. It is the reason western navies keep the Straits of Hormuz open and defend against Iranian aggression in the Gulf. It is the reason Obama took out Kadhafi over Italy's dependence on Libyan oil. Europe and Asia are dependent on middle east oil. These are simple hard truths. The US has no reason to depend on that oil now. If the rest of the world wants to keep that oil flowing, have at it.

Here is what I WISH had happened in Gulf War II. Remove Saddam, check. Hand the Iraqi security forces and military over to one of three Baathist generals who had signaled to the US that would restore the peace. Instead GWB started on a path of nation building in both Iraq and Afghanistan which Obama doubled down on. The US does not need nor will invade Iran as has been speculated so wildly. Military objectives can be achieved with long range strikes and special operations.


Firstly, im sorry you went through that and i hope your injury healed. I dont belittle the personal suffering soldiers go through.

However, you willingly put yourself there. You decided that your career choice was to go and shoot at foreigners in a foreign land. You were a combatant. Also, as I previously said, it doesn't add any extra value to your opinion. I have an old school friend who served in Iraq II and in Northern Ireland, and his opinion is strongly against further UK and US military involvement in the region.

I take issue with your statement that "The US has been under attack from Iran for forty years in one way or another"..... you have been in their back yard and at times their front yard throughout that period..... be real, to any completely neutral person youd have to convince them that the US was the net victim over that period, wouldn't you.

Nobody here is "supporting" Iran and nobody is denying their extensive use of brutal proxy forces or the fact that Soleimani deserved to get wasted.

But that does not prohibit me and others from pointing the finger right back at the US and highlighting the supreme hypocrisy of bedding down with the Saudi regime and all the horror that they are responsible for

It also doesn't mean that we are willing to see our country sucked into yet another US led war
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 am

DiamondGooner wrote:People slag off Saudi Arabia yet they have been one of America and Britians most staunch allies allowing them to host Airbases etc on their lands and they co-ordinate together.
Yes their Gov't has a medieval element in the form of the Whahabi, that's religion for you, but just because their Gov'ts are a bit behind the times, don't think the general populace aren't pushing to get there, even the Prince of Saudi has been trying his best to modernise rights etc.


You can say the same thing about Iranians tbf. I'd even argue Iranians as a whole are more liberal than Saudis.

The KSA has been ally for both of us for a long time, but that shouldn't excuse them from being called out and reprimanded for being one of the main players in the region's instability and terrorism around the world.

But I agree with you that the Middle East can be a pleasant place. I've lived there and traveled all throughout the region, and even though people knew I was American, they didn't treat me any differently from their own friends and family since I didn't roll up brandishing an M16.

btw I visited Manama and it's a boring Abu Dhabi tbh :hiding: although that famous (I think it's famous?) Hindu temple was cool to see.
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:06 am

Wackey lunchtime beer drinking conspiracy theory .... as 2019 draws to a close

Trump is coming under pressure in the US, despite great economic numbers the problems with impeachment and no movement in his personal numbers just won't go away, meanwhile half a world away Khamenei is coming under real pressure in Iran the bloody little people are revolting and Soleimani has become a real force. What to do?

Khamenei gets Soleimani to stir up the terrorist cells and lob a few missiles at the Americans killing one civilian, he knows this will invoke a response from the US, here comes the conspiracy theory ... someone in the Khamenei circles then leaks the travel details of Soleimani to the US ... Trump can't resist and boom no more Soleimani.

Trump uses this gift as an opportunity to deflect from his home issues proving himself an international diplomacy master, the tough guy who managed what his predecessor couldn't do, not by wasting billions in bribes but with a show of US force - USA, USA, USA all good for his little people back home.

Now of course the one thing that rallies the Iranian little people is the common enemy the 'Great Satan' at the same time that Khamenei had the US get rid of Soleimani a potential leadership threat, he's also at least for a while quelled the internal unrest. He can't be seen to be weak so he lobs a few old and ineffective missiles at a far away US base, first making sure the US gets a heads up to avoid any casualties.

There it is job done. Khamenei and the Iranians are happy, Trump and the USA are happy ... just one person on each side dead and now the opportunity for both Khamenei and Trump to show even more leadership by pulling back from the brink of a conflict they both engineered in the first place.

All beer drinking horse-shit but if it were true it would be quite devilishly brilliant ....
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:49 am

Well WWIII has not started yet, The Iranians are regrouping and trying to cover up that they thought a departing flight from Tehran being blown out of the sky.

DG thanks for inquiring about the leg....been healed up for several years now. Nearly lost it but had some great docs and lots of PT and follow on surgeries that keep it semi functional.


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What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:57 am

Phil71 wrote:
UFGN wrote:Sooo nobody seems to be talking about the 176 people killed in Tehran yesterday when that civilian jet from Ukraine was shot down / sabotaged......


My guess is it was a missile defense system gone wrong.

They will have had theirs armed during and after their little rocket firing exercise.

It mistook the aircraft for an incoming missile.


You were spot on.


Itchy fingered iranian corporal could not tell the difference between an departing airliner squawking assigned code and incoming aircraft which would not be squawking, So the dude was up for Sergeant, now he has been eliminated.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:06 am

LMAO wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:People slag off Saudi Arabia yet they have been one of America and Britians most staunch allies allowing them to host Airbases etc on their lands and they co-ordinate together.
Yes their Gov't has a medieval element in the form of the Whahabi, that's religion for you, but just because their Gov'ts are a bit behind the times, don't think the general populace aren't pushing to get there, even the Prince of Saudi has been trying his best to modernise rights etc.


You can say the same thing about Iranians tbf. I'd even argue Iranians as a whole are more liberal than Saudis.

The KSA has been ally for both of us for a long time, but that shouldn't excuse them from being called out and reprimanded for being one of the main players in the region's instability and terrorism around the world.

But I agree with you that the Middle East can be a pleasant place. I've lived there and traveled all throughout the region, and even though people knew I was American, they didn't treat me any differently from their own friends and family since I didn't roll up brandishing an M16.

btw I visited Manama and it's a boring Abu Dhabi tbh :hiding: although that famous (I think it's famous?) Hindu temple was cool to see.



Yes call out the Saudis for Chop,Chop Square, prisons filled with foreign workers , slave like existence for imported workers, absolute racism by the ruling families.


That said, there are some really fun and cool places to visit and people to meet. Just don't confuse as your new best friend in the Suk who will sell you a stuffed camel toy made in China for 2GIdollar.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:23 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
LMAO wrote:I'm all for shitting on my government. It's an American pastime after all.

But we don't take full responsibility for that. I place more blame on the UK for the bolded part. It wasn't the Shah we overthrew, it was the PM Mosaddegh in 1953. And that was because he wanted to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. Hell, Truman urged the UK not to escalate the embargo and moderate its Iran position, and Mosaddegh even visited Washington and had the support of the American government. But, Eisenhower and the CIA had other plans.

And if we're really going to get into the root cause of modern Middle East fuckery, it all started with the English-French Sykes-Picot Agreement after WWI.


I'm not sure the details of who did what regarding the Shah but I saw a programme stating America basically admitted to their hand in this, what Britain's role was I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for the Sykes-Picot Agreement well that was dividing the break up of Ottoman conquered lands, fair enough to the Brits though, when they saw they couldn't keep Damascus peacefully they left it, America would of rolled the tanks out.

The major fallout was the Israeli state but from what I remember again, Britain helped them in but then scarpered and left them to it, it was America who aided and armed the Jews to overthrow the Palestinians.

The initial idea wasn't a bad one imo, Jews wanted to return to the Levant, the issue was they weren't willing to do so peacefully, they didn't want to come and live there they wanted to take the land.


Here is the abridged version. UK never truly colonized Iran but was fighting off the Russians for the region which was pretty much Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi, Egypt and the Emirates, This was more Imperialism which included pillaging resources and people. The Brits established the borders, installed the rulers, taxes the f**k out of them, got into a hot war with Isreal and left. Only when Israel was established by the UN, did America form military coalitions which were supposed to include UN troops to protect Israel. Everyone split ', the Arabs/Egyptians/jordanian and Syrians attacked, they got tonked .

Israel returned the land it took save a few strategic points and areas.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:48 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
LMAO wrote:I'm all for shitting on my government. It's an American pastime after all.

But we don't take full responsibility for that. I place more blame on the UK for the bolded part. It wasn't the Shah we overthrew, it was the PM Mosaddegh in 1953. And that was because he wanted to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. Hell, Truman urged the UK not to escalate the embargo and moderate its Iran position, and Mosaddegh even visited Washington and had the support of the American government. But, Eisenhower and the CIA had other plans.

And if we're really going to get into the root cause of modern Middle East fuckery, it all started with the English-French Sykes-Picot Agreement after WWI.


I'm not sure the details of who did what regarding the Shah but I saw a programme stating America basically admitted to their hand in this, what Britain's role was I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for the Sykes-Picot Agreement well that was dividing the break up of Ottoman conquered lands, fair enough to the Brits though, when they saw they couldn't keep Damascus peacefully they left it, America would of rolled the tanks out.

The major fallout was the Israeli state but from what I remember again, Britain helped them in but then scarpered and left them to it, it was America who aided and armed the Jews to overthrow the Palestinians.

The initial idea wasn't a bad one imo, Jews wanted to return to the Levant, the issue was they weren't willing to do so peacefully, they didn't want to come and live there they wanted to take the land.


Here is the abridged version. UK never truly colonized Iran but was fighting off the Russians for the region which was pretty much Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi, Egypt and the Emirates, This was more Imperialism which included pillaging resources and people. The Brits established the borders, installed the rulers, taxes the f**k out of them, got into a hot war with Isreal and left. Only when Israel was established by the UN, did America form military coalitions which were supposed to include UN troops to protect Israel. Everyone split ', the Arabs/Egyptians/jordanian and Syrians attacked, they got tonked .

Israel returned the land it took save a few strategic points and areas.


So it's our fault because we didn't colonise them? Fair enough, we should have invaded more countries when we had The Empire at full strength.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:06 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
UFGN wrote:Sooo nobody seems to be talking about the 176 people killed in Tehran yesterday when that civilian jet from Ukraine was shot down / sabotaged......


My guess is it was a missile defense system gone wrong.

They will have had theirs armed during and after their little rocket firing exercise.

It mistook the aircraft for an incoming missile.


You were spot on.


Itchy fingered iranian corporal could not tell the difference between an departing airliner squawking assigned code and incoming aircraft which would not be squawking, So the dude was up for Sergeant, now he has been eliminated.


You were spot on Phil, that video being shown on the news this morning shows the strike and the aftermath in the landing area. Incredible mess and hardly a price of wreckage bigger than a suitcase. Poor sods!
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Re: American Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:07 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Well WWIII has not started yet, The Iranians are regrouping and trying to cover up that they thought a departing flight from Tehran being blown out of the sky.

DG thanks for inquiring about the leg....been healed up for several years now. Nearly lost it but had some great docs and lots of PT and follow on surgeries that keep it semi functional.


IMG_0787 (1).jpg


Wow, that’s really healed well. Good work! :clap:
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:22 am

Looks like Iran are going to accept "accidental" missile hit story ... they've called Boeing in to look at the data ... no doubt some poor conscript has already lost his head ... the West were all in quickly with 'accident' 'mistake' 'error' quotes giving Iran the easy get out ... been told by a guy who is way more informed about this stuff than me that the US, the UK and provably a few more countries would have know this was a missile strike before the missile even got there ... you can't fire a beany gun in Iran without a dozen satellites picking it up.

Giving Iran some time to get their accident story lined up was a smart move ... maybe Trump is learning to keep that huge trap shut ... but probably not
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:46 am

Rockape wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
UFGN wrote:Sooo nobody seems to be talking about the 176 people killed in Tehran yesterday when that civilian jet from Ukraine was shot down / sabotaged......


My guess is it was a missile defense system gone wrong.

They will have had theirs armed during and after their little rocket firing exercise.

It mistook the aircraft for an incoming missile.


You were spot on.


Itchy fingered iranian corporal could not tell the difference between an departing airliner squawking assigned code and incoming aircraft which would not be squawking, So the dude was up for Sergeant, now he has been eliminated.


You were spot on Phil, that video being shown on the news this morning shows the strike and the aftermath in the landing area. Incredible mess and hardly a price of wreckage bigger than a suitcase. Poor sods!


Just goes to show ............ if we couldn't investigate these Gov'ts he way we can now, how many lies would they tell and expect us to swallow?

Imagine the lies that were told prior to the 60's / 70's when we didn't have access to the tech and media we do now?
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:26 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
LMAO wrote:I'm all for shitting on my government. It's an American pastime after all.

But we don't take full responsibility for that. I place more blame on the UK for the bolded part. It wasn't the Shah we overthrew, it was the PM Mosaddegh in 1953. And that was because he wanted to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. Hell, Truman urged the UK not to escalate the embargo and moderate its Iran position, and Mosaddegh even visited Washington and had the support of the American government. But, Eisenhower and the CIA had other plans.

And if we're really going to get into the root cause of modern Middle East fuckery, it all started with the English-French Sykes-Picot Agreement after WWI.


I'm not sure the details of who did what regarding the Shah but I saw a programme stating America basically admitted to their hand in this, what Britain's role was I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for the Sykes-Picot Agreement well that was dividing the break up of Ottoman conquered lands, fair enough to the Brits though, when they saw they couldn't keep Damascus peacefully they left it, America would of rolled the tanks out.

The major fallout was the Israeli state but from what I remember again, Britain helped them in but then scarpered and left them to it, it was America who aided and armed the Jews to overthrow the Palestinians.

The initial idea wasn't a bad one imo, Jews wanted to return to the Levant, the issue was they weren't willing to do so peacefully, they didn't want to come and live there they wanted to take the land.


Here is the abridged version. UK never truly colonized Iran but was fighting off the Russians for the region which was pretty much Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi, Egypt and the Emirates, This was more Imperialism which included pillaging resources and people. The Brits established the borders, installed the rulers, taxes the f**k out of them, got into a hot war with Israel and left. Only when Israel was established by the UN, did America form military coalitions which were supposed to include UN troops to protect Israel. Everyone split ', the Arabs/Egyptians/jordanian and Syrians attacked, they got tonked .

Israel returned the land it took save a few strategic points and areas.


So it's our fault because we didn't colonise them? Fair enough, we should have invaded more countries when we had The Empire at full strength.


Huh? You missed the point obviously. I was offering a historical summary of what led to the Middle East being in the current state it is. I am not one to judge history, but rather one to understand it and apply that understanding to current events.
What would Nasri do? Never mind.
What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:46 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
UFGN wrote:Sooo nobody seems to be talking about the 176 people killed in Tehran yesterday when that civilian jet from Ukraine was shot down / sabotaged......


My guess is it was a missile defense system gone wrong.

They will have had theirs armed during and after their little rocket firing exercise.

It mistook the aircraft for an incoming missile.


You were spot on.


Itchy fingered iranian corporal could not tell the difference between an departing airliner squawking assigned code and incoming aircraft which would not be squawking, So the dude was up for Sergeant, now he has been eliminated.


You were spot on Phil, that video being shown on the news this morning shows the strike and the aftermath in the landing area. Incredible mess and hardly a price of wreckage bigger than a suitcase. Poor sods!


Just goes to show ............ if we couldn't investigate these Gov'ts he way we can now, how many lies would they tell and expect us to swallow?

Imagine the lies that were told prior to the 60's / 70's when we didn't have access to the tech and media we do now?



Imagine what we would know if we had independent media and actual journalism. Information tech actually makes it easier for propaganda and bias by exclusion to have an effect. By that I mean it people tend to read the news perspective that suits them. Quite honestly the information I soaked in as a kid from publications such as the Guardian, Newsweek and Time, International Herald Tribune etc were far more balanced and journalistic than any source now. (For instance CNN trotted out Maso Ebtekar for the Iranian government perspective without ever mentioning that she was the spokeswoman for the Iranian mob who took the American hostages in 1979 and is on video claiming she would happily shot any hostage in the head and making wild claims about American machine guns in the streets of Iran killing everyone they ). The other problem is is that the tech media fails to source ot confirm much of which is hurriedly put out. The NYT and WAPO are very bad about this, and retractions are often just deleted tweets.

That said, "journalists" often do tip their biases now through Twitter and other social media which at least allows us to know through which lense to filter any information they offer.

My take is that the information age has been hijacked by partisans and governments of all stripes to push agendas that can be hard to detect superficially, especially if the point of view is one we agree with.
Last edited by Pat Rice in Short Shorts on Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:53 pm

If you think the Guardian is more 'balanced'....than any other source, I am sitting here with my jaw on the floor!
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