American Politics

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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:49 am

EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:
The impeachment standard is so low


I don't think inciting people to violent insurrection is a low standard for impeachment. The whole world has viewed those events open mouthed and now the Democrats have to pick up the pieces. Trump has been entertaining to us Brits for a while, but this latest bit of behavior is beyond incredible.


Except he didn't order people to storm the building. All he said was march down there to make their voices heard and used the term "peacefully" in his speech, a clip most media outlets omit.


Prosecutors are likely going to go all the way back to Trump's "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" comment from his first debate with Biden.

And at the January 6 rally, Trump also said:
-"If you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country any more."
-"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules."
-"You’ll never take back our country with weakness."
which is a little harder to defend.

All the prosecutors need is a few of the insurrectionists saying they did what they did because of Trump, but ultimately, it's up to the prosecutors to make the case.


That's not how the law works - "I did it because the voices told me to" - is neither a defence or proof that the voices are guilty - the bible tells you "And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman" but the church isn't guilty of incitement even when a religious nut-job goes postal ... there are hundreds of other examples both Democrat and Republican where followers have been called to the streets, yet zero incidents of previous impeachments ... why is that?

Whilst this may stand up as a political show trial legally it's a joke ... Trump's actions don't come even close to reaching the legal threshold of proof, the he did, or intended to, cause a riot ... it's pure politics and nothing more.


What is even more stupid than the impeachment itself is that people try and justify it as something reasonable.
It would be far better if these people would just simply admit they hate the guy so much - I can understand that in many ways - that they just want to see him punished and hurt to make themselves feel good.
The charade is probably the most ridiculous thing of all.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:37 am

John Earle Sullivan, an anti-Trump activist has been charged relating to the Washington riots.

We know he is anti-Trump because of his previous involvement in organising and taking part in riots.
From previous videos of Sullivan's rioting escapades - now included in the charge document for his role in the Jan 6th riots:
:
SULLIVAN, DOB 07/18/1994, is a resident of Utah. Based on publicly available
information and information provided by SULLIVAN in an interview on January 7, 2021, described
further below, SULLIVAN is the leader of an organization called Insurgence USA through which
he organizes protests
. On July 13, 2020, SULLIVAN was charged with Rioting and Criminal
Mischief by the local law enforcement authorities in Provo, Utah, based on his activities around a
June 30, 2020, protest in which a civilian was shot and injured
. The case is still pending.
12. The United States obtained a video of SULLIVAN, posted on YouTube, in which,
while attending a protest in Washington, D.C., SULLIVAN can be seen telling a crowd, over a
microphone, “we about to burn this shit down,” “we got to rip Trump out of office . . . f***ing pull
him out of that shit . . . we ain’t waiting until the next election . . . we about to go get that
motherf***er.” SULLIVAN then can be seen leading the crowd in a chant of, “it’s time for a
revolution.


So now on to the 6th January events:

Sullivan claims to have been there to report.
Unfortunately for him he's on video wearing tactical riot gear with a gas mask... and he's also on video revealing the following:

After the crowd broke through the last barricade, and as SULLIVAN and the
others approach the Capitol Building, SULLIVAN can be heard in the video saying
at various points: “There are so many people. Let’s go. This shit is ours! f**k yeah,”
“We accomplished this shit. We did this together. f**k yeah! We are all a part of
this history,” and “Let’s burn this shit down.”

c. Later, SULLIVAN’s video includes footage of individuals climbing a wall
to reach a plaza just outside the Capitol Building entrance, as seen in the screenshot
below. As individuals are climbing the wall, SULLIVAN can be heard saying, “You
guys are f***ing savage. Let’s go!”
10
d. At one point, SULLIVAN can be heard telling one of the individuals
climbing the wall to give SULLIVAN his hand as individuals in the crowd are
calling to help people up the wall.
e. The video records SULLIVAN’s entrance into the U.S. Capitol building
through a broken window:
11
f. SULLIVAN, once inside the Capitol Building, roamed the building with
other individuals who unlawfully entered. During one of his interactions with
others, SULLIVAN can be heard in the video saying, “We gotta get this shit burned.”
At other times as he is walking through the Capitol, SULLIVAN can be heard
saying, among other things, “it’s our house motherfuckers” and “we are getting this
shit.”

g. In addition, several times during the video, SULLIVAN encounters law
enforcement officers who are trying to prevent further advancement through the
building by those who entered unlawfully. In at least two encounters, SULLIVAN
can be heard on the video arguing with the officers, telling them to stand down so
that they do not get hurt. Among other things, SULLIVAN can be heard telling
officers, “you are putting yourself in harm’s way,” “the people have spoken,” and
“there are too many people, you gotta stand down, the people out there that tried to
do that shit, they got hurt, I saw it, I’m caring about you.”
h. At one point in the video, SULLIVAN enters an office within the U.S.
Capitol, as seen in the screenshot below. Once inside the office, SULLIVAN
approaches a window, also seen in the screenshot below, and states, “We did this
shit. We took this shit.


Link to the charging document :
https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1354781/download

How many more people who were actually anti-Trump and involved in the protests remains to be seen, but now we have a LEADING activist advocating for forcefully removing Trump from office directly involved, and at the very forefront, in the Jan 6th incident.

I would assume this would mean that Kamala Harris needs to be impeached when she takes office - at least under today's rules.
She not only encouraged activists like Sullivan over the summer, she actually donated to the legal funds of people arrested during the riots all year long.

OOPS.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:48 am

UFGN wrote:Bill Clinton was a widely popular president, yet he was impeached for lying about getting a blowie. He was heavily criticised at the time, rightly, for using his power to garner sexual favours from a low-powered assistant. It arguably defined his presidency.

Trump on the other hand has bragged about such behaviour. Bragged about it with no shame. If Trump was impeached for what Clinton was impeached for, imagine the indignation from his supporters...... not for him the high standards expected of a president.

So spare me the witch-hunt bollocks. Trump is a disgrace and this is the very least he deserves.


............. so it begs the question.

Imagine the state of the US Presidency when you have two men within two decades who have been actively impeached!! Clinton left in 2001, that's one President impeached per 10 years, the state of it.

When's the last time a French, Spanish or British Prime Minister was booted out by the House?

Its a Circus and tbf this is completely unnecessary, this smacks of revenge from Washington, the man is literally a dead president walking, he's already lost the election and is a few days away from ending his term, what is the point of this if not for show?

He's not even getting kicked out of office ffs, he's already leaving lol.

What have they done, shortened his term by a whopping 3 days? pointless.
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Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:38 am

The level of violence that went on inside the Capital is now coming out as much worse than was originally reported.

Ive just watched interviews with police officers who were there on the news

* Officers attacked with chemical sprays
* Officers having their gas masks ripped from their faces
* Black officers called "N"
* White officers called "race traitors"
* Officers told "we supported you during the BLM protests so you should support us now"
* Officers beaten with their own batons
* A concerted attempt by hundreds of people to get into the chamber where lawmakers and the VP were, with thousands more trying to get in from outside
* DC police credited with preventing a "massacre" of lawmakers, police and rioters by backing up the Capital Police with numbers while VIPs were moved away
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:46 am

If my auntie had balls she be my uncle - more absurd whataboutery - BLM mobs spent the summer burning,looting and ransacking 10's of millions from private businesses, dozens of lives were lost, the media and politicians called it "mostly peaceful" - now a few hundred lunatics break some windows and steal some souvenirs, meanwhile a few millionaire politicians shat themselves whilst hiding behind armed security who illegally shot and killed an unarmed civilian ... media and politicians call it "insurgency and civil war"

Of course any sane person knows which violence is more important, especially if you're a woke, clearly in the US not all unlawful violence is equal ..... guess it just depends on your political leaning.

It's not a question of right or wrong it's a question of treating all people equally - even a moron like Trump.
Last edited by EliteKiller on Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:53 am

EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:
The impeachment standard is so low


I don't think inciting people to violent insurrection is a low standard for impeachment. The whole world has viewed those events open mouthed and now the Democrats have to pick up the pieces. Trump has been entertaining to us Brits for a while, but this latest bit of behavior is beyond incredible.


Except he didn't order people to storm the building. All he said was march down there to make their voices heard and used the term "peacefully" in his speech, a clip most media outlets omit.


Prosecutors are likely going to go all the way back to Trump's "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" comment from his first debate with Biden.

And at the January 6 rally, Trump also said:
-"If you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country any more."
-"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules."
-"You’ll never take back our country with weakness."
which is a little harder to defend.

All the prosecutors need is a few of the insurrectionists saying they did what they did because of Trump, but ultimately, it's up to the prosecutors to make the case.


That's not how the law works - "I did it because the voices told me to" - is neither a defence or proof that the voices are guilty - the bible tells you "And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman" but the church isn't guilty of incitement even when a religious nut-job goes postal ... there are hundreds of other examples both Democrat and Republican where followers have been called to the streets, yet zero incidents of previous impeachments ... why is that?

Whilst this may stand up as a political show trial legally it's a joke ... Trump's actions don't come even close to reaching the legal threshold of proof, the he did, or intended to, cause a riot ... it's pure politics and nothing more.


It's not as clear cut as you think, given the numerous legal scholars arguing for or against. Brandenburg v. Ohio established the Brandenburg test, and it'll be up to the prosecutors (in a criminal court if it ever gets to that) to make the argument and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump met those standards.

For the Senate trial, it'll come down to whether or not at least 17 GOP senators want to put the final nail in Trump's political career coffin.
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:00 am

LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:
The impeachment standard is so low


I don't think inciting people to violent insurrection is a low standard for impeachment. The whole world has viewed those events open mouthed and now the Democrats have to pick up the pieces. Trump has been entertaining to us Brits for a while, but this latest bit of behavior is beyond incredible.


Except he didn't order people to storm the building. All he said was march down there to make their voices heard and used the term "peacefully" in his speech, a clip most media outlets omit.


Prosecutors are likely going to go all the way back to Trump's "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" comment from his first debate with Biden.

And at the January 6 rally, Trump also said:
-"If you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country any more."
-"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules."
-"You’ll never take back our country with weakness."
which is a little harder to defend.

All the prosecutors need is a few of the insurrectionists saying they did what they did because of Trump, but ultimately, it's up to the prosecutors to make the case.


That's not how the law works - "I did it because the voices told me to" - is neither a defence or proof that the voices are guilty - the bible tells you "And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman" but the church isn't guilty of incitement even when a religious nut-job goes postal ... there are hundreds of other examples both Democrat and Republican where followers have been called to the streets, yet zero incidents of previous impeachments ... why is that?

Whilst this may stand up as a political show trial legally it's a joke ... Trump's actions don't come even close to reaching the legal threshold of proof, the he did, or intended to, cause a riot ... it's pure politics and nothing more.


It's not as clear cut as you think, given the numerous legal scholars arguing for or against. Brandenburg v. Ohio established the Brandenburg test, and it'll be up to the prosecutors (in a criminal court if it ever gets to that) to make the argument and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump met those standards.

For the Senate trial, it'll come down to whether or not at least 17 GOP senators want to put the final nail in Trump's political career coffin.


I agree completely it would make for an interesting court case - charges could be brought the day he leaves office - but that won't happen because despite the scholarly arguments no prosecutor wants to go near it - it's a guaranteed lose trying to 'prove' intent of thought.

Holding a political dog and pony show when you could hold a real trial? that tells you all you need to know. This is the most current ruling that would seem relevant ... Trump would clearly be innocent under this opinion

Judge Learned Hand advocated the intent standard, in Masses Publishing Co. v. Patten, reasoning that "If one stops short of urging upon others that it is their duty or their interest to resist the law, it seems to me one should not be held to have attempted to cause its violation". The Brandenburg intent standard is more speech-protective than Hand's formulation, which contained no temporal element.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:01 am

EliteKiller wrote:If my auntie had balls she be my uncle - more absurd whataboutery - BLM mobs spent the summer burning,looting and ransacking 10's of millions from private businesses, dozens of lives were lost, the media and politicians called it "mostly peaceful" - now a few hundred lunatics break some windows and steal some souvenirs, meanwhile a few millionaire politicians shat themselves whilst hiding behind armed security who illegally shot and killed an unarmed civilian ... media and politicians call it "insurgency and civil war"

Of course any sane person knows which violence is more important, especially if you're a woke, clearly in the US not all unlawful violence is equal ..... guess it just depends on your political leaning.

It's not a question of right or wrong it's a question of treating all people equally - even a moron like Trump.


Why is it always solely BLM and/or antifa when there's been a mountain of evidence from the FBI all the way down to local law enforcement that right-wing groups participated in and started the burning, looting, and ransacking too? Nonpolitical actors also?

Everyone who laid waste businesses and unjustly committed murder should('ve) be(en) arrested and charged, but I'm just wondering why BLM and antifa always get singled out when it was far more than just them.

I'm not attacking you, I've just wondered this for a while.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:12 am

EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:
The impeachment standard is so low


I don't think inciting people to violent insurrection is a low standard for impeachment. The whole world has viewed those events open mouthed and now the Democrats have to pick up the pieces. Trump has been entertaining to us Brits for a while, but this latest bit of behavior is beyond incredible.


Except he didn't order people to storm the building. All he said was march down there to make their voices heard and used the term "peacefully" in his speech, a clip most media outlets omit.


Prosecutors are likely going to go all the way back to Trump's "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" comment from his first debate with Biden.

And at the January 6 rally, Trump also said:
-"If you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country any more."
-"When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules."
-"You’ll never take back our country with weakness."
which is a little harder to defend.

All the prosecutors need is a few of the insurrectionists saying they did what they did because of Trump, but ultimately, it's up to the prosecutors to make the case.


That's not how the law works - "I did it because the voices told me to" - is neither a defence or proof that the voices are guilty - the bible tells you "And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman" but the church isn't guilty of incitement even when a religious nut-job goes postal ... there are hundreds of other examples both Democrat and Republican where followers have been called to the streets, yet zero incidents of previous impeachments ... why is that?

Whilst this may stand up as a political show trial legally it's a joke ... Trump's actions don't come even close to reaching the legal threshold of proof, the he did, or intended to, cause a riot ... it's pure politics and nothing more.


It's not as clear cut as you think, given the numerous legal scholars arguing for or against. Brandenburg v. Ohio established the Brandenburg test, and it'll be up to the prosecutors (in a criminal court if it ever gets to that) to make the argument and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump met those standards.

For the Senate trial, it'll come down to whether or not at least 17 GOP senators want to put the final nail in Trump's political career coffin.


I agree completely it would make for an interesting court case - charges could be brought the day he leaves office - but that won't happen because despite the scholarly arguments no prosecutor wants to go near it - it's a guaranteed lose trying to 'prove' intent of thought.

Holding a political dog and pony show when you could hold a real trial? that tells you all you need to know. This is the most current ruling that would seem relevant ... Trump would clearly be innocent under this opinion

Judge Learned Hand advocated the intent standard, in Masses Publishing Co. v. Patten, reasoning that "If one stops short of urging upon others that it is their duty or their interest to resist the law, it seems to me one should not be held to have attempted to cause its violation". The Brandenburg intent standard is more speech-protective than Hand's formulation, which contained no temporal element.


I agree that it's doubtful this sees the inside of a federal courtroom. Who knows about DC and what they'll decide? Biden already committed to not personally go after Trump a while ago. It'll be up to his DOJ whether to bring those charges against Trump or not. It'd definitely go down as one of those SCOTUS (since it'd inevitably end up there) cases we teach children about in schools forever if it happened, though.

In the court of public opinion, I think Trump is guilty as sin and it started back with his baseless claims of a stolen election, rigged election, unlawful votes, etc. that allowed this environment to fester. But, the standards are obviously much higher in a court of law, which is why I've been saying it'd be up to the prosecutors to make the case since it's not a legal slam dunk.
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Re: American Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:40 am

LMAO wrote:Why is it always solely BLM and/or antifa when there's been a mountain of evidence from the FBI all the way down to local law enforcement that right-wing groups participated in and started the burning, looting, and ransacking too? Nonpolitical actors also?

Everyone who laid waste businesses and unjustly committed murder should('ve) be(en) arrested and charged, but I'm just wondering why BLM and antifa always get singled out when it was far more than just them.

I'm not attacking you, I've just wondered this for a while.


For me it's about balance, even though the US split almost 50-50 in the election the media and social media response is 90-10 as it has been since a very long time ago ...

Despite what it might look like I am no fan of Trump, his brand of conservatism has done huge damage to the mainstream of politics both right and left - the inevitable outcome of pushing the voters on one side further right is that you push voters on the opposing side further left.

When you have echo-chambers like FOX and CNN forever emboldening their cult following it will never end well. I am a capitalist conservative (the US is capitalist as is 90% of the planet despite what the media might say) who can support many of Trump's policies but in no way support his behaviour. Two things that have long become inseparable in the eyes of many cultists both right and left.

All you are seeing now is political point scoring - what is the benefit in a second impeachment trial, ban Trunp from 2024? - it would now seem that even if impeached Trump could still stand in 2024 unless the Senate add an article to disqualify him from future federal offices - that being a 100% political act would cause mayhem, democracy denied. The voters have already rejected Trump this ridiculous 'trial' risks bringing him back from the dead.

When the violent mob in the summer was looting and burning they weren't right or left they were just criminals - so why were they caricatured as "mostly peaceful" a response that was beyond stupid.

When the violent mob last week was running around the capital in fancy dress they also were just criminals - so why were they caricatured as "an attempted coup" that's also a response that's beyond stupid.

The evidence shows that the same so called left/right activists were at both events - criminals will be criminals I guess.

As for BLM/Antifa I admit it's lazy labelling by me - BLM is a Marxist organisation that should be banned - that said the BLM protesters over the summer had no understanding of that and believe that BLM is an anti-racist organisation - the same error made by the FA.

Antifa is the Left's version of Proud Boys - jumped up tossers who think they are toy soldiers - it would be nice if the real army could have been called in and dealt with both groups in the most extreme fashion - but of course that would never be sanctioned.

Trump is a symptom of a disease that's been infecting the USA for far to long - why tolerate others opinions when you can just shut them down - what Trump did to win in 2016 is what Biden did to win in 2020 - make the other guy look an even bigger prick than you ...

Face it Trump only got on the ballot because Clinton was poison - and Biden only got on the ballot because Trump was poison - if either Trump or Biden had faced off with a competent opposition candidate they would have been lucky to get 25% of the vote ....

But there it is if you only have a choice between Moron A and Moron B you have to pick a Moron - and the US isn't alone Boris v Corbyn? the UK has no credibility either.

Back to the now - impeachment is a mistake it's just opening up deep wounds - when there's nothing to gain but vain pride why do it?
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:24 am

EliteKiller wrote:If my auntie had balls she be my uncle - more absurd whataboutery - BLM mobs spent the summer burning,looting and ransacking 10's of millions from private businesses, dozens of lives were lost, the media and politicians called it "mostly peaceful" - now a few hundred lunatics break some windows and steal some souvenirs, meanwhile a few millionaire politicians shat themselves whilst hiding behind armed security who illegally shot and killed an unarmed civilian ... media and politicians call it "insurgency and civil war"

Of course any sane person knows which violence is more important, especially if you're a woke, clearly in the US not all unlawful violence is equal ..... guess it just depends on your political leaning.

It's not a question of right or wrong it's a question of treating all people equally - even a moron like Trump.


...and it turns out that at least 1 of the mob, who was right at the front of the break into the Capitol building, was a far-left fanatic and anti-Trump organiser. Unfortunately, whether right or left of the political spectrum, there will always be those that are so indoctrinated into their ideologies that they end up stepping way over the line.

We've seen it all year with BLM and Antifa.
We've seen it now with mainly Trump supporters too.

But these people seem to just like chaos, which is why I suspect anti-Trump people also turned up for the 'party' on the 6th Jan.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:29 pm

Sorry....first time back to this thread to follow up on my earlier statement.

As LMAO suggests, this isn't about what would stand up in court, this is all about the rhetoric leading up to those disgraceful events that people died in. Any sane person can look at the comments made in public, the reported comments made in private (I'm not calling them off, they are MY people) to work out that Trump has gone from treading a fine line to becoming a total meglomaniac. That ridiculous statement he made a few days later, denouncing the violence was so transparently fake, it was quite incredible.
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:27 pm

Rockape wrote:Sorry....first time back to this thread to follow up on my earlier statement.

As LMAO suggests, this isn't about what would stand up in court, this is all about the rhetoric leading up to those disgraceful events that people died in. Any sane person can look at the comments made in public, the reported comments made in private (I'm not calling them off, they are MY people) to work out that Trump has gone from treading a fine line to becoming a total meglomaniac. That ridiculous statement he made a few days later, denouncing the violence was so transparently fake, it was quite incredible.


So can you post the comments that called for violence...
The 'i'm not calling them off..' comment - post a link on that also.

As for the call for no violence, Trump has made that appeal many times (well before the event of Jan 6th).
Therefore, I would place your comments as far more 'transparently' fake than his.

I don't actually disagree with your point on Trump being a megalomaniac - I think there has to be an element of that trait in anyone who seeks a career in politics and it's also true of billionaires. There has to be something not quite right with a person who wants that much money.
However, it is also important not to conflate issues, opinions on personality and subsequently fit those opinions and narratives to a desired outcome - in this case justifying an impeachment.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:59 pm

Rolling Stone interview with the guy who captured Babbitt getting bodied: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... w-1112949/

Deserved to be arrested and charged along with the rest of those who stormed the Capitol.

This dude's brother is a MAGA Bro. Can't imagine what Thanksgiving was like. This year's should be a hoot :grin:
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:01 pm

LMAO wrote:Rolling Stone interview with the guy who captured Babbitt getting bodied: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... w-1112949/

Deserved to be arrested and charged along with the rest of those who stormed the Capitol.

This dude's brother is a MAGA Bro. Can't imagine what Thanksgiving was like. This year's should be a hoot :grin:


^this would be the anti-Trump fanatic (who was already up on charges for rioting previously this year in an incident that led to the death of 1 person). He was central to the riots in Washington on Jan 6th and helped incite the crowd to violence, whilst pretending to be a Trump supporter.

His brother, by the way, did the right thing - he turned him into the FBI.
Not only was Sullivan there to infiltrate and incite, he brought others with him - to pretend to be Trump supporters and incite violence.

Oddly enough, Sullivan is exactly the kind of person that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden donated legal funds to keep them out of prison, whilst earlier this year Kamala also encouraged the rioters to keep going. Yes, not just encouragement but actual financial assistance.

Oh - and it seems ( I say seems because identity needs to be verified) that a CNN/NPR video journalist was also with the known criminal Sullivan (remember up on charges already from previous rioting). Why she was with him (and later appeared with him on CNN to 'tell the story') is unfathomable. Now she could have just been there to report of course and just met him there - except she is also on video shouting 'we did it!!' gleefully as the chaos and rioting got into full swing. During the riots, she was also right at the front pretending to be a Trump supporter. Not a good look for CNN, though they don't have much of a reputation to protect in the first place.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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