American Politics

Debate about anything going on in the world. Please remember, everyone has their own opinion.

Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:12 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Older folks have always been dismissive of youthful ignorance. It's generational and usually very valid. The thing is, younger folks don't figure that out until they assume the role of elders.


Your calculations are missing one very important variable: Millennials and Gen Z are the most liberal generations on record at their respective ages (identifying as such since liberal and conservative ideals vary by time period). As a generation and at our current ages, our parents weren't this liberal, our grandparents weren't this liberal, our great-grandparents weren't this liberal.

Even young conservatives are moving to the left. Back then, conservatives used to lynch black people, beat up gay people, and see marijuana as the Devil's lettuce. Today, young white conservatives hang out with minorities instead of hang them, don't give a damn about same-sex marriage, and blaze up like there's no tomorrow. And you'd be surprised how many young right-leaning people have some of what you'd consider socialist values (but are really social democracy values despite older conservatives' best efforts to redefine it to mean pure socialism).

Why are we more into social democracy?

Well, our generations have grown/are growing up and seen/seeing right-wing policies don't work for us. We've seen Democratic presidents (Clinton, Obama) get the deficit under control only for a Republican (GWB, Trump) to go into the White House and blow it all up again. We've seen the housing crisis as a direct result of Boomer policies. We've seen college costs skyrocket. We know previous givens like Social Security might not be around in 40-50 years when we hit retirement age. Older people aren't retiring so opportunities for promotion in the workplace are severely limited. Infrastructure and public education are crumbling, but Republicans want more tax cuts while also cutting funding for net-positive programs to pay for more shiny, new war toys. Health insurance costs are outrageous. Older generations don't give a f**k about climate change because they won't be around to suffer from it or because they can't profit from green energy just yet.

No longer are the days when an 18-year-old fresh out of high school can get a mortgage and afford a car payment. No longer can students work a summer job and pay for the next year of college.

Did you know Millennials are the first generation to experience a decline in life expectancy?

But maybe, we're simply more liberal because we've grown up in and been shaped by a diverse world with many different accessible viewpoints and ways of life :dontknow:

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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:20 pm

UFGN wrote:You and I are both from areas which have seen acid-trip price rises in the last 30 years.

Stoke Newington Church Street..... f***ing crackers what people pay to live there now. The punch line is, no matter how you spin it youre still a short walk from what is still one of the most dangerous parts of London

I grew up all over North London but mainly near Crouch End. Back then you had middle class, poor, students, hippies, working class, everyone living there. Now, £1.8M for a house. Jesus wept.

And obviously the rent is a joke as well.

I own my place now but it aint in Crouch End and I'll never be able to afford to live where I grew up ever again.

I'll turn 40 this year, but it pisses me off seeing the ignorance that younger people are facing from older generations who are completely out of touch with how hard it is to find somewhere decent and affordable. Thats decent AND affordable..... both.


That's what I mean, as cruel as it is I have to admire the game of the Estate Agents in London, they're on Wolf of Wall Street levels of devious.

To turn a ghetto (how it was in the 80's) into a hot spot with £500k flats in an estate is a pretty good hustle.

My house cost less than half that amount and I have a garden, driveway and all the bedrooms are proper doubles, for e.g in my room I can easily get a Super King and still have space, the 2nd bedroom easily fits a King again with space to spare.

Funny thing is whenever I've been back to Stoke Newington ........... its still sh*t, just less grubby, my mother tells me its up and coming, but it looks exactly the same.
The only thing that's up and coming is the fkin house prices lol.

If you don't mind me asking UFGN, what area did you settle in, in the end?
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 pm

Well, our generations have grown/are growing up and seen/seeing right-wing policies don't work for us. We've seen Democratic presidents (Clinton, Obama) get the deficit under control only for a Republican (GWB, Trump) to go into the White House and blow it all up again. We've seen the housing crisis as a direct result of Boomer policies. We've seen college costs skyrocket. We know previous givens like Social Security might not be around in 40-50 years when we hit retirement age. Older people aren't retiring so opportunities for promotion in the workplace are severely limited. Infrastructure and public education are crumbling, but Republicans want more tax cuts while also cutting funding for net-positive programs to pay for more shiny, new war toys. Health insurance costs are outrageous. Older generations don't give a f**k about climate change because they won't be around to suffer from it or because they can't profit from green energy just yet.

No longer are the days when an 18-year-old fresh out of high school can get a mortgage and afford a car payment. No longer can students work a summer job and pay for the next year of college.


Firstly you need to under the why for those issues. Clinton only got the deficit under control because of two things. Firstly the tech boom which flooded the government with tax revenue and also because Newt Gingrich came along with the Contract with America with which Clinton had to go along with as the GOP won both the House and Senate and they cut capital gains from 28% to 20% . (You had to be there). Obama's share of the deficit was $10 trillion when he came into office and was $20 trillion when he left. Now we have to explore why deficits are rising and the biggest reason is unfunded mandates such as pensions, SS, Medicaid/Medicare etc. In 1977 Carter slashed the military budget, by 1980 we had no spare parts for the aircraft I was flying. Tanks, ships...nothing was kept up. Reagan had to reinstate contracts and retooling cost the taxpayer double what those parts cost four years prior. Fast forward to 2016 and it was deja vu. In three years Trump restored our capability. Not shiny new toys, safe effective weapon systems. Peace is only possible through strength, a reality lost on many sadly.

The Boomer generation is responsible for cleaning up our water, air and banning substances like DDT and lead fuel. We did the hard work, we paid the costs. And I am thankful we did. It's not about giving a f**k about climate change, it is recognizing that much of the hyperbole is BS that is not even examined by younger folks. The solution is to keep on with reasonable environmental policy as we started in the 60s. Trust me on this at least, the world is not going to end in ten years. The US will continue to reduce carbon output, keep our environment as the cleanest in the world because we can afford to. If you want to see the real messes go to a socialist or third world country where they can not afford to do so. Like most neo-liberal ideas banning fossil fuels with utterly crush third world economies and cause far more problems if places such as Nepal have to reverse their transition to LNG and propane and go back to denuding the hillsides of burnable fuel and thus the precious soils. One thing we learn as we age is that many solutions are seemingly counterintuitive.

Huh? Older people are not retiring so that takes up all the jobs? Sorry but that is a zero sum approach to economics which is a fallacy. Economies grow and jobs are produced, The Trump economy is the best example going...we have a labour shortage. More jobs than people to fill them. as a result wages are growing at twice the rate of inflation. Last weeks report showed that the lowest earners have gained the most in the past year at 3.3%. Four years ago the problem for graduates was that were no real jobs out there, now they have a selection of opportunities to pick from give they are marketable and got the right degree.


The housing crisis in 2008 was due to the Reinvestment Act which was authored and passed by Dems which forced Fannie and Freddie to guarantee mortgage loans to low income folks with no way to pay them back. They were sold as junk level investments. Then we have Dodd/Frank which handcuffed smaller banks which then failed or had no way to lend. Thus the rise of the mega banks occurred under Clinton and the Gramm Act .

Outrageous college tuition is a direct result of those institutions trying to compete for students by building resort style facilities, adding ridiculous majors and curriculums and pushing student loans as their major source of funding. Then the Dem /Obama revised the bankruptcy laws to not cover student debt and transferred that debt to the government.

Trump has been trying to deal with Pelosi on infrastructure as he ran on, but she will not work with him. It will be a priority after the elections again.

Tax cuts increase revenue when the balance is achieved. JFK, Reagan, Clinton, Trump, Ireland...the list of successes is long.

Health insurance costs doubled in the years after Obamacare because the companies were forced to cover the uninsurable and Obama did away with low premium/high deductible catastrophic policies which most younger folks had. My daughter's family policies through work went from $120 a month to over $400 within two years of Obamacare. Now if you really want to see higher medical costs try Medicare or all on for size. $20 trillion price tag and doctors who will quit causing a shortage of care far worse than now. Supply and demand.

I'd sure like to know when an 18 year old could get a mortgage and car loan right of school, or even a 22 year old right out of college. Never has been the case. The vast majority of us start out in life with not much and build wealth. Hell, my kids all started their own businesses and are making cash hand over fist now...but it took time. I got my first job here in the US while in college and was making $2.20 an hour and had to pay rent and my own way. It was not easy then and is not now I presume. That is life.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:54 pm

Iran's new Quds leader vows 'manly' revenge for Soleimani killing.

They (US) hit him (Soleimani) in a cowardly way, but with God's grace and through endeavours of freedom-seekers around the world who want vengeance over his blood, we will hit his enemy in a manly fashion," he said.


A manly fashion!

I'm picturing hit men dressed as construction workers.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/ ... 19073.html
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:59 pm

Since he thinks it was cowardly, we can settle it the old fashion way. Their best fighter against ours.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:06 pm

Yeah...I don't think God's grace is gonna stop a missile.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:14 pm

Wait!

Iranian hit squad spotted near White House

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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:24 pm

In fact they can pick their favorite average run of the mill 41 y/o male citizen, that is the same weight and height as me (6'1 195 lbs), and I'll fight him. Winner gets Melania Trump and a free stay at the white house.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:28 pm

StLGooner wrote:In fact they can pick their favorite average run of the mill 41 y/o male citizen, that is the same weight and height as me (6'1 195 lbs), and I'll fight him. Winner gets Melania Trump and a free stay at the white house.


Hard pass. Ivanka is a better incentive tbh
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:30 pm

LMAO wrote:
StLGooner wrote:In fact they can pick their favorite average run of the mill 41 y/o male citizen, that is the same weight and height as me (6'1 195 lbs), and I'll fight him. Winner gets Melania Trump and a free stay at the white house.


Hard pass. Ivanka is a better incentive tbh



Whichever one pisses off Don more. He probably doesn't care about either though.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:37 pm

StLGooner wrote:
LMAO wrote:
StLGooner wrote:In fact they can pick their favorite average run of the mill 41 y/o male citizen, that is the same weight and height as me (6'1 195 lbs), and I'll fight him. Winner gets Melania Trump and a free stay at the white house.


Hard pass. Ivanka is a better incentive tbh



Whichever one pisses off Don more. He probably doesn't care about either though.


Oh man, you haven't seen the photos. Trump totally fantasizes about smashing Ivanka (or at least, he did. Dunno about currently).

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Barf.
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:39 pm

Ummm yeah that's creepy.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:42 pm

Yeah that’s...

Odd.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:59 pm

On bright note, Tulsi Gabbard is suing Hillary for $50million for claiming she is a Russian agent/asset. One would think that accusation might be getting stale by now. :cheerleader:
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:11 am

Still don't know who I'm going to vote for in the primaries. It's maddening.

I really wanna pull the trigger on Yang, but I also don't want to contribute to Biden winning.
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