American Politics

[UFGN]

Another misrepresentation

Really? You said:

What Trump was elected (without the authority of the popular vote of course) to do, is highly subjective.

I'd call it pretty extremist to arbitrarily negate the Constiutional authority of the POTUS with the meaningless popular vote. Where do you even get these stupid notions from? CNN or Twitter I'd hazard a guess. It takes two thrids of the states to agree to Constitutional amendments, not your misguided opinions about authority. Here's a news flash for you. What the President was elected to do is not subjective at all. He stated what he was going to do and the people made him President.

But when youre drowning, cling to whatever you can, eh?

Best to cling to the Constitution and Bill of Rights when discussing this subject - which you seem to know little about.

The issue to do with the popular vote arose because PRISS used the fact that Trump had been elected, to assert that must mean that "America wants his policies" as a tactic to shut down my criticism of those policies

A pretty extremist move on his part by your definition, wouldnt you say? Shutting down debate by saying, effectively, "its been voted for so shut up and dont voice your opinion"

You really should be more careful with words. Seriously.

Rather extreme to claim that democracy an extremist stance. And no dude, it is not about shutting down your opinion...it's about debunking your irrational arguments and quite honestly your chronic case of victimhood. Try some logic and ditch the emotionalism. If you feel your debate has been shut down, then I would suggest it is because you have no real argument that makes sense. Thus you resort to insults and playing the victim. A very common thread on the left.

In truth you represent and hold an ideology that excludes any possibility of taking reasonable stances and rejects personal responsibility. That ideology is simply a form of religious zealotry. The far left is on a crusade toward an Orwellian world of groupthink that demands your sort of my way or the highway totalitarian enforcement. Anyone with a bit of historical acumen, or simply being aware of human nature (both the good and the bad) should be able to see the folly of this thinking. So I will side with reality, you can embrace utopian "solutions" that have been proven untenable all across the globe...because those who impose them are simply seeking power. I know because like so many I was the same as an ignorant kid who knew better than everyone else, but I grew out of tilting at windmills and finally understood what liberty and true compassion is all about.

Oh do be quiet

Youve just accused me of calling democracy an extremist stance, simply because I criticised your opinion. Another example of you using extreme language to shut down debate

And I know youre clawing your eyes out to shut me up by trying to label me, a Blairite and Liberal Democrat, "far left", but its not going to work

Its unacceptable. Youre a liar and a hyperbole specialist.

I invite you to row back from your rhetoric. Youre not in a right wing echo chamber here. This is not Fox and Friends. If you cant take criticism of your views without grandstanding and chucking your toys, log out and go on Breitbart

[jayramfootball]

Another misrepresentation

Really? You said:

What Trump was elected (without the authority of the popular vote of course) to do, is highly subjective.

I'd call it pretty extremist to arbitrarily negate the Constiutional authority of the POTUS with the meaningless popular vote. Where do you even get these stupid notions from? CNN or Twitter I'd hazard a guess. It takes two thrids of the states to agree to Constitutional amendments, not your misguided opinions about authority. Here's a news flash for you. What the President was elected to do is not subjective at all. He stated what he was going to do and the people made him President.

But when youre drowning, cling to whatever you can, eh?

Best to cling to the Constitution and Bill of Rights when discussing this subject - which you seem to know little about.

The issue to do with the popular vote arose because PRISS used the fact that Trump had been elected, to assert that must mean that "America wants his policies" as a tactic to shut down my criticism of those policies

A pretty extremist move on his part by your definition, wouldnt you say? Shutting down debate by saying, effectively, "its been voted for so shut up and dont voice your opinion"

You really should be more careful with words. Seriously.

Rather extreme to claim that democracy an extremist stance. And no dude, it is not about shutting down your opinion...it's about debunking your irrational arguments and quite honestly your chronic case of victimhood. Try some logic and ditch the emotionalism. If you feel your debate has been shut down, then I would suggest it is because you have no real argument that makes sense. Thus you resort to insults and playing the victim. A very common thread on the left.

In truth you represent and hold an ideology that excludes any possibility of taking reasonable stances and rejects personal responsibility. That ideology is simply a form of religious zealotry. The far left is on a crusade toward an Orwellian world of groupthink that demands your sort of my way or the highway totalitarian enforcement. Anyone with a bit of historical acumen, or simply being aware of human nature (both the good and the bad) should be able to see the folly of this thinking. So I will side with reality, you can embrace utopian "solutions" that have been proven untenable all across the globe...because those who impose them are simply seeking power. I know because like so many I was the same as an ignorant kid who knew better than everyone else, but I grew out of tilting at windmills and finally understood what liberty and true compassion is all about.

[LMAO]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

[UFGN]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Wow, geezers just spitting out random words lol

It seems to me the key question that, not only Americans but all people in Western countries should be asking is, how much am I paying in taxes, including local taxes and retail taxes?

How much (in your case) am I and my family paying for heallthcare, including medication, co-pays etc?

Right.....

Now compare that whole figure to what Danish or Swedish citizens pay. I'll tell you this, they pay quite a lot, but I think youd be surprised if you compared it to what you really pay.... considering the Scandinavian model is fullly inclusive of world class healthcare and other services

And it is them, or France you should aspire to, not the UK

The biggest problem you would face would be overcoming resistance from your health industry. Im not convinced your president has enough powers to do what it would take to win them over in every state.

[LMAO]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Wow, geezers just spitting out random words lol

It seems to me the key question that, not only Americans but all people in Western countries should be asking is, how much am I paying in taxes, including local taxes and retail taxes?

How much (in your case) am I and my family paying for heallthcare, including medication, co-pays etc?

Right.....

Now compare that whole figure to what Danish or Swedish citizens pay. I'll tell you this, they pay quite a lot, but I think youd be surprised if you compared it to what you really pay.... considering the Scandinavian model is fullly inclusive of world class healthcare and other services

And it is them, or France you should aspire to, not the UK

The biggest problem you would face would be overcoming resistance from your health industry. Im not convinced your president has enough powers to do what it would take to win them over in every state.

You don't have to explain it to me (which I think you're saying it to the crowd). I'm all for M4A and getting rid of networks.

There's already a website for Bernie's tax plan where you can enter your income and healthcare cost and compare it to the current system: https://www.bernietax.com/

My disposable income decreases by about $12 and my healthcare costs go up by ~$12 per year. Which is fine because I make more than enough to live very comfortably and wouldn't mind helping out the less fortunate because I'm not some greedy prick. If I got married and filed jointly with my SO, our disposable income would actually increase.

Imo anyone still against M4A is dense af or an asshole.

For implementation, it depends. If there's a blue House and Senate along with a popular Sanders, it'd be suicide for them to oppose a Nordic model.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Let me introduce you to the Great Depression to which FDR was responding. Bernie is responding to a thriving economy and full employment.

[LMAO]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Let me introduce you to the Great Depression to which FDR was responding. Bernie is responding to a thriving economy and full employment.

So what you're saying is social democracy would be even better with a stronger economy.

I agree.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

• H.R.6 - American Dream and Promise Act of 2019. DoA in the Senate. No reconciliation or anything.
• You mean the FIRST STEP Act that had already passed both chambers before the current Congress?
• Yes because school choice is a dismantling of public education in favor of religious institutions with bs vouchers. It's funneling money into the pockets of people like Betsy DeVos at the cost of education (and it's already not great now).
• Because it's idiotic to implement a blanket ban for all late-term abortions because of mUh fEeLz. Late-term abortions are alright highly regulated. It's such a stupid issue to even bring up at this point, especially when only something like 1.3% of all abortions are late-term. It's arguing just to argue.

That's such a rewrite of history. Republicans (led by Fox News) got their panties in a bunch because Obama put dijon mustard on his burger like some eLiTiSt, wore a tan suit, and saluted a general. Really, you're going to tell me with a straight face the right didn't irrationally hate Obama? And what do you mean pushed Obamacare through? It was a Republican idea in the first place! Modeled after Romneycare in Massachusetts. No, the GOP just didn't like it because Democrats got to be associated with it. And for as much as Republican congresspeople blustered, they still couldn't repeal and replace this supposed shit plan even when they controlled the entire government. Really makes you think.

And you can't seriously bring up Bernie supporting totalitarian governments when Trump has praised strongmen like Kim, Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, and el-Sisi.

Yeah, Guaido, someone from Venezuela, would be a lot more likely to know what an actual socialist is compared to an American.

There's not much I do agree on with Trump and the GOP on. Really one of the only thing I can think of right now is minor prison reform. On the other hand, I'd love a higher progressive tax system and a better corporate tax system, I care about the federal government trying to fight climate change, and being in the TPP would've put a lot more pressure on China than the current trade war. However, I know it might come as a surprise to you, but I've actually praised Trump on here before when he actually did things I approve of (like grounding the 737 MAXs).

Sorry I posted a comprehensive response and the site would not allow me to post yesterday nor the day prior. And it was brilliant! Hope I can recall most of it!

Public education is a disaster for most urban kids, we can throw money at it and nothing changes. The Dems are simply inline with teachers unions, not the results. It should be about the kids, and charter schools are far better in terms of results, choice and competition is good.

I am not for a blanket ban on late term abortions, I am for banning birth control, sex determination and conditional third trimester abortions such as for a deformity. Of the 7000 plus later term abortions in 2018, which are viable humans, only about 8% were for medical reasons threatening the mother. One of my grandkids was born at seven months of gestation, she is still small but thriving. There can be no excuse for killing such children.

And no, neither Romneycare or Obamacare was a GOP idea. Both were written in by Jon Gruber who said what about those who were fooled by the lies? Google it if you don't recall it. The GOP did not like it because they understood what it would do to premiums and because it was step one toward single payer which was addmitted later.

Hmmm...Bernie praised not just the leadership but the systems under which NK, Cuba, Venezuela are suffering. Trump has always been opposed to totalitarian rule. If you pay attention Trump started by calling Kim "little Rocket man" (the Dems claimed Trump was starting WWIII) and sending two carrier groups to the region. He started by trashing China and imposing tariffs (which to my surprise worked and the farmers and ranchers supported). Turkey and Russia the same. Then he starts negotiations and becomes chummy in his verbiage. After three years this should be obvious.

I think the people of Venezuela understand the evils of socialism well enough. Americans such as I who have seen the results of socialism, communism, fascism and Maoism first hand understand it far better than most Bernie bros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... nother-ra/
Look at the people on his staff. Read the DSA website. Read what Chakrabarti believes and has said about the Green New Deal being about eliminating capitalism not about climate. Do you know that Bernie honeymooned in Moscow and was pariasing the USSR at the time? These are hardcore communists.

What about the Trump economy do you not approve of? Low inflation, real growth of lower end and middle class income, full employment with the greatest gains for minorities, IRA/401k/pension funds all up 60% in three years (which cannot be understated). What is not to like?

So I think we as reasonable people can agree that the economy is great and that Americans are benefiting (90% satisfaction rate last week). So what in your opinion will Bernie's socialist policies have on our economy and why? The reason he will never win is that voters including Dems who pay attention beyond the "free stuff" pitch know.

What is the lure of socialism to you? If it is to help the poor, it never has. If it is to boost the economy, it will not. If it is to "fair" it never has been. But all of these college kids claim they "can do it right"...good luck with that. One thing that I have learned over the decades is that reality can seem counterintuitive when viewed through emotionalism ratherm than logic and analysis. I can cite and explain any number of examples from economics to healthcare to hunting be the key to conservation. Socialism will hurt your generation in ways I doubt you can contemplate now.

There is a reason Carville decided to make the rounds and that Dems are trashing Bernie, they know full well that if he is nominated he will lose them the House, any chance of the Senate and obviously to Trump. So I wish the man well in his primary campaign.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Let me introduce you to the Great Depression to which FDR was responding. Bernie is responding to a thriving economy and full employment.

So what you're saying is social democracy would be even better with a stronger economy.

I agree.

What I am saying is that what Bernie is proposing will lead to a disastrous economy and suffering. Your FDR example is not valid for the reason I stated, he was responding to the depression and starving citizens. Bernie and Warren et all are opposing the very policies that are working. That should be quite clear.

[UFGN]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Let me introduce you to the Great Depression to which FDR was responding. Bernie is responding to a thriving economy and full employment.

So what you're saying is social democracy would be even better with a stronger economy.

I agree.

What I am saying is that what Bernie is proposing will lead to a disastrous economy and suffering. Your FDR example is not valid for the reason I stated, he was responding to the depression and starving citizens. Bernie and Warren et all are opposing the very policies that are working. That should be quite clear.

The UK created the NHS when the country was utterly f***ked and had no money. So it is possible to achieve these things even when the odds are against it. However, if we did it now we would be able to make a much better job of it. If you have a stronger economy with a high tax yield, that is exactly the right time to invest in public services.

[UFGN]

John Oliver on Charter Schools

https://youtu.be/l_htSPGAY7I

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

LOOOOOOOL Chris Matthews had an epic meltdown on Bernie. Prime "Ok Boomer" rant Must watch:

He was this close to realization when he brought up Denmark.

It's clear to see who hasn't actually listened to or refuses to listen to Bernie's plans, and instead falls on the crutch of channeling Joseph McCarthy's ghost.

As for people still scared of sOcIaLiSm (really democratic socialism or social democracy) in America, let me introduce you to FDR—arguably the greatest president in American history.

But the debate solidified one thing for me: if Bernie doesn't get cheated out of the nomination, he'll win in November. Else, it'll be another four years of Trump.

Let me introduce you to the Great Depression to which FDR was responding. Bernie is responding to a thriving economy and full employment.

So what you're saying is social democracy would be even better with a stronger economy.

I agree.

What I am saying is that what Bernie is proposing will lead to a disastrous economy and suffering. Your FDR example is not valid for the reason I stated, he was responding to the depression and starving citizens. Bernie and Warren et all are opposing the very policies that are working. That should be quite clear.

The UK created the NHS when the country was utterly f***ked and had no money. So it is possible to achieve these things even when the odds are against it. However, if we did it now we would be able to make a much better job of it. If you have a stronger economy with a high tax yield, that is exactly the right time to invest in public services.

Then perhaps we had best not f**k around with WHY the economy is thriving.

The reason that state run medical will not happen is because union workers (who got a waiver with Obamacare) and people with private insurance don't want to lose what they have. The Medicare for all plan mandates that private insurance be replaced. Besides that the bill is in the multiple trillions.

Yes had the US gone the route of nationalized healthcare back in the 50s it would be entrenched as it is in the UK. But most Americans are happy with private medical care. Obamacare was simply a wedge, trying to pry open the system for nationalized medicine. We do have such a system through the VA, but it sucks. That is why Trump finally made true choice available to veterans through Care in the Community which is far better.

But all of this is rather a moot discussion because if the Dems keep on about this, socialism, high taxes, open borders, their insane HR 5383 "Way Forward Act" https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... /5383/text, free medical for illegals etc. they have no chance of winning the House much less the Senate or Presidency. And because of that they will also give the GOP at least two justices and perhaps three with timely retirements.

[UFGN]

You can easily afford it

You can afford to tax the wealthy more.

You can afford to plough a great deal of the money currently paid in insurance premiums by individuals and companies into it.

You can afford to cut your military spending.

You could also save billions by reducing your prison population down to a less insane level.

The starting up costs would be significant, but once up and running the efficiency savings would be of huge benefit to the whole country. An American NHS would be the worlds biggest pharma customer and could get huge discounts if the political will was there.

Also the administrative savings of having just one admin system would be huge. You would also need less managers

[LMAO]

• H.R.6 - American Dream and Promise Act of 2019. DoA in the Senate. No reconciliation or anything.
• You mean the FIRST STEP Act that had already passed both chambers before the current Congress?
• Yes because school choice is a dismantling of public education in favor of religious institutions with bs vouchers. It's funneling money into the pockets of people like Betsy DeVos at the cost of education (and it's already not great now).
• Because it's idiotic to implement a blanket ban for all late-term abortions because of mUh fEeLz. Late-term abortions are alright highly regulated. It's such a stupid issue to even bring up at this point, especially when only something like 1.3% of all abortions are late-term. It's arguing just to argue.

That's such a rewrite of history. Republicans (led by Fox News) got their panties in a bunch because Obama put dijon mustard on his burger like some eLiTiSt, wore a tan suit, and saluted a general. Really, you're going to tell me with a straight face the right didn't irrationally hate Obama? And what do you mean pushed Obamacare through? It was a Republican idea in the first place! Modeled after Romneycare in Massachusetts. No, the GOP just didn't like it because Democrats got to be associated with it. And for as much as Republican congresspeople blustered, they still couldn't repeal and replace this supposed shit plan even when they controlled the entire government. Really makes you think.

And you can't seriously bring up Bernie supporting totalitarian governments when Trump has praised strongmen like Kim, Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, and el-Sisi.

Yeah, Guaido, someone from Venezuela, would be a lot more likely to know what an actual socialist is compared to an American.

There's not much I do agree on with Trump and the GOP on. Really one of the only thing I can think of right now is minor prison reform. On the other hand, I'd love a higher progressive tax system and a better corporate tax system, I care about the federal government trying to fight climate change, and being in the TPP would've put a lot more pressure on China than the current trade war. However, I know it might come as a surprise to you, but I've actually praised Trump on here before when he actually did things I approve of (like grounding the 737 MAXs).

Sorry I posted a comprehensive response and the site would not allow me to post yesterday nor the day prior. And it was brilliant! Hope I can recall most of it!

Public education is a disaster for most urban kids, we can throw money at it and nothing changes. The Dems are simply inline with teachers unions, not the results. It should be about the kids, and charter schools are far better in terms of results, choice and competition is good.

I am not for a blanket ban on late term abortions, I am for banning birth control, sex determination and conditional third trimester abortions such as for a deformity. Of the 7000 plus later term abortions in 2018, which are viable humans, only about 8% were for medical reasons threatening the mother. One of my grandkids was born at seven months of gestation, she is still small but thriving. There can be no excuse for killing such children.

And no, neither Romneycare or Obamacare was a GOP idea. Both were written in by Jon Gruber who said what about those who were fooled by the lies? Google it if you don't recall it. The GOP did not like it because they understood what it would do to premiums and because it was step one toward single payer which was addmitted later.

Hmmm...Bernie praised not just the leadership but the systems under which NK, Cuba, Venezuela are suffering. Trump has always been opposed to totalitarian rule. If you pay attention Trump started by calling Kim "little Rocket man" (the Dems claimed Trump was starting WWIII) and sending two carrier groups to the region. He started by trashing China and imposing tariffs (which to my surprise worked and the farmers and ranchers supported). Turkey and Russia the same. Then he starts negotiations and becomes chummy in his verbiage. After three years this should be obvious.

I think the people of Venezuela understand the evils of socialism well enough. Americans such as I who have seen the results of socialism, communism, fascism and Maoism first hand understand it far better than most Bernie bros.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... nother-ra/
Look at the people on his staff. Read the DSA website. Read what Chakrabarti believes and has said about the Green New Deal being about eliminating capitalism not about climate. Do you know that Bernie honeymooned in Moscow and was pariasing the USSR at the time? These are hardcore communists.

What about the Trump economy do you not approve of? Low inflation, real growth of lower end and middle class income, full employment with the greatest gains for minorities, IRA/401k/pension funds all up 60% in three years (which cannot be understated). What is not to like?

So I think we as reasonable people can agree that the economy is great and that Americans are benefiting (90% satisfaction rate last week). So what in your opinion will Bernie's socialist policies have on our economy and why? The reason he will never win is that voters including Dems who pay attention beyond the "free stuff" pitch know.

What is the lure of socialism to you? If it is to help the poor, it never has. If it is to boost the economy, it will not. If it is to "fair" it never has been. But all of these college kids claim they "can do it right"...good luck with that. One thing that I have learned over the decades is that reality can seem counterintuitive when viewed through emotionalism ratherm than logic and analysis. I can cite and explain any number of examples from economics to healthcare to hunting be the key to conservation. Socialism will hurt your generation in ways I doubt you can contemplate now.

There is a reason Carville decided to make the rounds and that Dems are trashing Bernie, they know full well that if he is nominated he will lose them the House, any chance of the Senate and obviously to Trump. So I wish the man well in his primary campaign.

I'm going to need the words out of Bernie's mouth. Otherwise, I can pull up words from Trump supporters and use them to malign Trump. But as for him praising the systems, I remember watching that video you linked; and in that video, Bernie said we need to take the good from both systems, he never said that we should base America exclusively on the Cuba model. I hate to use a meme, but this is a large part of why those socialist states failed (they didn't exclusively fail on their own merit):


Do you know why Bernie honeymooned in the USSR? As mayor of Burlington and interested in foreign affairs, he was trying to establish Yaroslavl as a sister city of Burlington since the USSR was beginning to open itself to the outside world (like when Nixon went to China). Did you know Los Angeles and St. Petersburg became sister cities in 1989? Or Minneapolis and Novosibirsk in 1988? Or Cleveland and Volgograd in 1990? Also, the Soviet Union wasn't Stalin communist at its end. Perestroika and glasnost added a market economy element, but the leaders bungled the transition for an already doomed economy. Bernie went on his honeymoon in 1988 when perestroika and glasnost were already underway; the old Soviet communism didn't exist anymore.

It's not that I don't approve of the economy. It's more that Trump hasn't done anything special—it's just mostly a continuation of the economy under Obama.
Business Insider: Trump boasts the US economy is the best it's ever been under his watch. Here are 9 charts showing how it compares to the Obama and Bush presidencies.
Washington Post: The Trump economy vs. the Obama economy, in 15 charts
MarketWatch: Opinion: Trump didn’t transform the economy — it’s mostly the same as it was under Obama

Bernie's tax plan (and M4A) will put more money into the pockets of average Americans. If you go on a site for his tax plan (https://www.bernietax.com), you can see how it would affect you. If you enter the numbers for the average household ($56,516 for household income and $5,277 for household healthcare costs), the average household's disposable income will be almost $4,000 higher per year—this number includes M4A payment and the added benefit of no networks. Here's how much each tax bracket would pay towards Bernie's M4A:

Can I ask you why you think the average American would be against that?

You misrepresent me. I'm neither a socialist nor desire a shift to pure socialism. I'm a social democrat, center-left on the left-right axis.
• Workers should have greater control over the companies since they are a major part in companies' successes or failures. Basically stronger unions.
• Green initiatives and environmentalism are extremely important to me and my generation. Capitalism has proven it doesn't give a damn about the environment, instead choosing to chase its fix of short-term profits.
• To expand on the above bullet point, greater regulation of certain industries. For example, it's bullshit that telecom companies were given billions of taxpayer dollars to build out fiber networks, yet those companies pocketed the money and continue to gouge customers because of local monopolies and lack of choice; it's basically legalized racketeering. We need to nationalize ISPs.
• Life isn't fair, but we can make opportunities more fair by creating strong social safety nets and programs (like universal healthcare, improved poverty benefits, and social security) that will improve the economy in the long run because people will be more willing to take entrepreneurial risks and will have a better shot of achieving their potential. For example, how many potential game changing renewable energy companies haven't been founded because potential founders are scared of giving up their current job-sponsored healthcare? Or how many potential Einsteins never got to reach even half their potential because they're in jail or six feet under due to being raised by the streets or never getting the chance to go to college or a trade school because they can't afford it since a single parent worked all the time in order to provide a roof and food instead of being home more often to nurture or two incomes to help offset costs?

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

No, the economy is not thriving because of Obama's policies. That is simply a kop out by anti Trumpers who are desperate to try to keep him from being reelected. I am all for giving credit where due, but when the 2008 crash is misrepresented as due to Bush when it was all about the subprime mortgage crisis caused by Frank, Dodd and their party, well it is very hard to take people like Bernie seriously when they seem not understand economics or have to lie about it.

Bernie's tax plan (and M4A) will put more money into the pockets of average Americans. If you go on a site for his tax plan (https://www.bernietax.com), you can see how it would affect you. If you enter the numbers for the average household ($56,516 for household income and $5,277 for household healthcare costs), the average household's disposable income will be almost $4,000 higher per year—this number includes M4A payment and the added benefit of no networks. Here's how much each tax bracket would pay towards Bernie's M4A:

Can I ask you why you think the average American would be against that?

Firstly, I would be very wary of a campaign site like that especially as the numbers are very sketchy. Medicare for all will cost everyone a whole lot , just as Obamacare did despite the claims it was going to save us all 2k. You can't tax the "rich" enough to make all of the things he is promising work. Warren ran head first into that reality when she claimed the middle class would not have to pay for her programs...she was forced to backup the truck and admit it would. Simple math. Most Americans understand that such plans are BS, which is why Carvelle is going insane again.

You misrepresent me. I'm neither a socialist nor desire a shift to pure socialism. I'm a social democrat, center-left on the left-right axis.

Well in that case you would really surprised if Bernie ever got himself elected.

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Workers should have greater control over the companies since they are a major part in companies' successes or failures. Basically stronger unions.

Except it is the business owners who take all of the risk. My wife and I have had three companies in which we employed workers, and yes while it takes workers to make things and perform services they have no real stake in the company and nor should they. Unions are dying because they are simply political action organizations now.

• Green initiatives and environmentalism are extremely important to me and my generation. Capitalism has proven it doesn't give a damn about the environment, instead choosing to chase its fix of short-term profits.

This is utter nonsense. The cleanest, most environmentally friendly are capitalist systems. They are the only ones who can afford to be. You have the Bernie/AOC hyperbole down pat. I thought you were center left not a true socialist?

• To expand on the above bullet point, greater regulation of certain industries. For example, it's bullshit that telecom companies were given billions of taxpayer dollars to build out fiber networks, yet those companies pocketed the money and continue to gouge customers because of local monopolies and lack of choice; it's basically legalized racketeering. We need to nationalize ISPs.

Seems to me that Trump's infrastructure covers rural fiber optic systems, and I sure a whole lot of cable going in. Nationalize the telecom industry? There are all sorts of choices in most parts of the country. When you propose nationalizing any industry look out...because by definition you are eliminating competition. That is the ultimate monopoly. Besides, you REALLY think the government which can't run a postal service without raising the prices every year is going to do better than what we have? And you want them in charge of all our healthcare too? Free stuff is not free no matter what Bernie claims.

Universal healthcare, improved poverty benefits, and social security that will improve the economy in the long run because people will be more willing to take entrepreneurial risks and will have a better shot of achieving their potential. For example, how many potential game changing renewable energy companies haven't been founded because potential founders are scared of giving up their current job-sponsored healthcare?

Have you ever started a company or plan to? If someone is scared to try it will not work anyway. Welfare kills ingenuity as it produces a dependent class. The Green New Deal proposes paying people who do not care to work which is insanity.

Solyndra ring any bells? Innovation is a product of market demand. When a solution for any problem or demand for new product becomes cost effective it is invented, improved on or produced.

Or how many potential Einsteins never got to reach even half their potential because they're in jail or six feet under due to being raised by the streets or never getting the chance to go to college or a trade school because they can't afford it since a single parent worked all the time in order to provide a roof and food instead of being home more often to nurture or two incomes to help offset costs?

Or being aborted? (Sorry, too easy!) Single parenthood is a huge issue, and if you do some research you will find that the massive shift in family structure in the US started in the mid sixties with the welfare state created by LBJ and has accelerated ever since as safety nets (which I support 100%) have become a lifestyle. Liberalization and abandonment of social and cultural standards leads to poverty as any generational Dem controlled city demonstrates so sadly.

Sounds to me that you have gone full on Bernie but do not want to come clean in your own mind that he is a socialist. Good luck.

BTW, what part of the US are you from? Just curious.