American Politics

Debate about anything going on in the world. Please remember, everyone has their own opinion.

Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:53 am

UFGN wrote:
We've already just been over all that.... Literally just now. And what are you doing if you're not ranting?

You dismissed the ideas put forward by the conservatives out of hand without even wanting to discuss them. Why? Because they are "Remainers" ie you disagree with them. More so Ken Clarke. You're not interested because you disagree with him. You don't want to consider any aspect of Brexit that isn't on your personal agenda


God its like talking to a brick wall.

I just explained to your dumb ass that the "ideas" were not what people voted for hence irrelevant what I or you think, they voted leave, its not about me dismissing anything its what the vote was for.
Cameron, the EU and the Remainers have made it very clear, Leave mean't leaving the Single Market, having a Norway style deal does not allow us to Leave and be independent .......... I'm not explaining this to you again for the fourth time.

Not that you've asked even though you've accused me three times of being staunchly "Hard Brexit" I actually considered the idea of staying in the Single Market, paying a subscription and possibly accepting freedom of movement, however the EU have stacked demands in that instance, the Leave voters also don't want that and the Remainers have made giving concessions a sign of letting them run rough shod over the entire process hence I now completely accept May's position ........... no more nonsense and demands from all quarters, out means out, "Brexit means Brexit.

She cannot fulfill the result of the referendum any other way, your lot pushed her too hard, she was backed into a corner and surprising (to me anyway) she has chosen to fulfill the will of the majority.

I thought she explained her position quite clearly and why, you should of listened better.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 30475
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:03 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
We've already just been over all that.... Literally just now. And what are you doing if you're not ranting?

You dismissed the ideas put forward by the conservatives out of hand without even wanting to discuss them. Why? Because they are "Remainers" ie you disagree with them. More so Ken Clarke. You're not interested because you disagree with him. You don't want to consider any aspect of Brexit that isn't on your personal agenda


God its like talking to a brick wall.

I just explained to your dumb ass that the "ideas" were not what people voted for hence irrelevant what I or you think, they voted leave, its not about me dismissing anything its what the vote was for.
Cameron, the EU and the Remainers have made it very clear, Leave mean't leaving the Single Market, having a Norway style deal does not allow us to Leave and be independent .......... I'm not explaining this to you again for the fourth time.

Not that you've asked even though you've accused me three times of being staunchly "Hard Brexit" I actually considered the idea of staying in the Single Market, paying a subscription and possibly accepting freedom of movement, however the EU have stacked demands in that instance, the Leave voters also don't want that and the Remainers have made giving concessions a sign of letting them run rough shod over the entire process hence I now completely accept May's position ........... no more nonsense and demands from all quarters, out means out, "Brexit means Brexit.

She cannot fulfill the result of the referendum any other way, your lot pushed her too hard, she was backed into a corner and surprising (to me anyway) she has chosen to fulfill the will of the majority.

I thought she explained her position quite clearly and why, you should of listened better.


Yes I do have a memory you know and it might disturb you to know that I remember pretty much everything I write and read on here including your alleged stance on a hard Brexit.

Whether you've changed your mind or whether May has changes f**k all to do with you not wanting to acknowledge other points of view because you have now made up your mind.

By the way re the enlarged bits, way to go for putting words in the mouths of everyone who voted Leave. Presumably you interviewed them all?

And re the bold bit, another example of you having no tolerance for any view other than your own, and this time accusing "Remainers" of wanting to "run rough shod" over the process.... ie you not getting everything your way

You've lied through your teeth about me putting words in your mouth only to then confirm everything I've said.
Last edited by UFGN on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23527
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:28 am

UFGN wrote:
Yes I do have a memory you know and it might disturb you to know that I remember pretty much everything I write and read on here including your alleged stance on a hard Brexit.

Whether you've changed your mind or whether she has changes f**k all to do with you not wanting to consider other points of view because you have now made up your mind.

By the way re the highlighted bits, way to go for putting words in the mouths of everyone who voted Leave. Presumably you interviewed them all?


Wow just wow.

Your inability to reply properly means this debate is now over, because not accepting the facts I've given and the scenario at hand is your way of saying "I've lost the argument but don't want to admit it so I'll ignore what he's saying and just keep arguing to save face".

PS - Those people who voted leave may or may not have considered the Single Market, but again IT IS IRRELEVANT, about as irrelevant as your drivel, the thing they VOTED for was to leave the EU, Prime Minister May explicitly explained why leaving the EU means the Single Market is off the table.
Also if Leave voters didn't want to leave the single market then they must of missed the months of dire warnings from the papers, Cameron and all the political debates STATING a vote to leave is a vote to LEAVE THE SINGLE MARKET.

Stop making a fool of yourself, you sound like that idiot Farron, this is like trying to teach a toddler how to tie his shoe laces.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 30475
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:37 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Yes I do have a memory you know and it might disturb you to know that I remember pretty much everything I write and read on here including your alleged stance on a hard Brexit.

Whether you've changed your mind or whether she has changes f**k all to do with you not wanting to consider other points of view because you have now made up your mind.

By the way re the highlighted bits, way to go for putting words in the mouths of everyone who voted Leave. Presumably you interviewed them all?


Wow just wow.

Your inability to reply properly means this debate is now over, because not accepting the facts I've given and the scenario at hand is your way of saying "I've lost the argument but don't want to admit it so I'll ignore what he's saying and just keep arguing to save face".

PS - Those people who voted leave may or may not have considered the Single Market, but again IT IS IRRELEVANT, about as irrelevant as your drivel, the thing they VOTED for was to leave the EU, Prime Minister May explicitly explained why leaving the EU means the Single Market is off the table.
Also if Leave voters didn't want to leave the single market then they must of missed the months of dire warnings from the papers, Cameron and all the political debates STATING a vote to leave is a vote to LEAVE THE SINGLE MARKET.

Stop making a fool of yourself, you sound like that idiot Farron, this is like trying to teach a toddler how to tie his shoe laces.


I've made some edits to the post you just quoted, above. It's a shame you have so much confidence in your own ability to argue your case because you really have no impact whatsoever. A little more objectivity and a little less right/left bs and you might one day be worth the effort.
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23527
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:02 am

Worthless post, you can't refute what I'm saying so now your just posting for the sake of it.

You've been schooled on the Electoral vote system and now the meaning of Brexit and what the vote consisted of, hence the aftermath of which you and your's are completely in denial about.

Get used to losing, you've been doing it all year / last year and with your attitude and that of the Left media its only going to continue.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 30475
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:08 am

DiamondGooner wrote:Worthless post, you can't refute what I'm saying so now your just posting for the sake of it.

You've been schooled on the Electoral vote system and now the meaning of Brexit and what the vote consisted of, hence the aftermath of which you and your's are completely in denial about.

Get used to losing, you've been doing it all year / last year and with your attitude and that of the Left media its only going to continue.


Are you a psychopath or something? Some f***ked up alternative reality going on in your head maybe? Because none of that has happened and the rest is just you spewing shit as per usual
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23527
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:34 am

Yes I'm a psychopath, now go to sleep this has been a rough day for you.

You said the Electoral vote was "Trying to represent populace voting" when it just isn't, I can quote you if you want so just shut up and take your beating like a man.

Even though I know for Far Left that's hard to do.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 30475
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:40 am

DiamondGooner wrote:Yes I'm a psychopath, now go to sleep this has been a rough day for you.

You said the Electoral vote was "Trying to represent populace voting" when it just isn't, I can quote you if you want so just shut up and take your beating like a man.

Even though I know for Far Left that's hard to do.


Lol shut up you fool, I know every detail of how the Electoral Colleague system works. And still the Right / Left thing

You're too full of shit to be for real
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23527
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:50 am

UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Yes I'm a psychopath, now go to sleep this has been a rough day for you.

You said the Electoral vote was "Trying to represent populace voting" when it just isn't, I can quote you if you want so just shut up and take your beating like a man.

Even though I know for Far Left that's hard to do.


Lol shut up you fool, I know every detail of how the Electoral Colleague system works. And still the Right / Left thing

You're too full of shit to be for real


UFGN wrote:If the Electoral colleague isn't supposed to accurately reflect the popular vote then why do the states all have different numbers of votes? Clearly it's meant to


............ and he says I'm full of sh*t.

Just stop, your embarrassing yourself.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 30475
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:00 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Yes I'm a psychopath, now go to sleep this has been a rough day for you.

You said the Electoral vote was "Trying to represent populace voting" when it just isn't, I can quote you if you want so just shut up and take your beating like a man.

Even though I know for Far Left that's hard to do.


Lol shut up you fool, I know every detail of how the Electoral Colleague system works. And still the Right / Left thing

You're too full of shit to be for real


UFGN wrote:If the Electoral colleague isn't supposed to accurately reflect the popular vote then why do the states all have different numbers of votes? Clearly it's meant to


............ and he says I'm full of sh*t.

Just stop, your embarrassing yourself.


I'm perfectly happy with that quote.

What part of my statement do you disagree with? Are you saying that the Electoral colleague system is not meant to reflect the popular vote? Because frankly, that is exactly what it aspires to do. As I said, when that system doesn't return the popular candidate, that is a failure of FPTP.

Now I'm done until tomorrow and I'll leave you to dig yourself out of this ridiculous hole you've dug yourself.
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23527
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:20 am

Do you actually believe that you saying that makes it true or makes everyone else believe it?

Don't bother coming back tomorrow, I refuse to debate someone who can't even wrap their head around the concept of Brexit or what the vote was for.

UFGN wrote:
I'm perfectly happy with that quote.

What part of my statement do you disagree with? Are you saying that the Electoral colleague system is not meant to reflect the popular vote? Because frankly, that is exactly what it aspires to do. As I said, when that system doesn't return the popular candidate, that is a failure of FPTP.


You would be, because your too stupid to admit your wrong.

I disagree with all of it, its a fact that its not aspiring to represent the popular vote, otherwise they would just have the popular vote! the Electoral vote is based on representation per state as I already spelled out for you.

Your failure to accept reality has reduced this conversation to moronic levels, go debate with GA if you want that level of base discussion.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 30475
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:39 am

EliteKiller wrote:Excellent .... finally a poster who is prepared to justify what he says ....

"the protests have Trump rattled" - unless you have insight to his state of mind this is pure guesswork .... crystal ball commentary ....

"really hurt him that his inauguration had far fewer people than the amount of people who marched on DC"

"It's going to be impossible to gauge how many people exactly attended Trump's inauguration as opposed to the Women's March Saturday"] ... Mayor's Office in Washington ....
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/21/politics/womens-march-donald-trump-inauguration-sizes/

What I would agree with is that across the USA more people marched, but then the inauguration was only in Washington so you can't compare ... remember Occupy Wall Street had equally large numbers, but in the end achieved almost nothing and is now a memory ... unless a social protest has a clear end game 'end the Vietnam War' for example, it can't succeed ... it's great to see freedom of speech being expressed, however if the end game is to remove Trump then a few million marchers versus a 330 million electorate? that ain't going to work ... they will get their chance in four years time ... that's just how US Democracy works ...

"lowest approval rating of any incoming President in American history"

Now I know the USA has a relatively short history but it is longer than the last century, as the approval question was first asked in the 1940's by Gallup ... the term 'in American History' is clearly false. Now if you had said 'lowest rating since Gallup began asking the question' then that would have been correct .... fair play for spotting that ....

''nominated vastly unqualified people for Cabinet positions'' - again unless you have personal knowledge of their CV's this claim is bogus, what are the qualifications for a cabinet position? ... their suitability will be put before congress ... they will all get voted in ... are you saying that congress would appoint unqualified people? they may be the wrong people for the job, but that does not make them 'unqualified'

''A lot of Trump voters already have buyer's remorse'' you quote the Huffington Post who are commenting on a Twitter feed? without another election nobody has a clue how voters would vote today ... there's a strong argument that many Dems are even more fed up with their own party than they were three months ago, and that many more Obama voters wouldn't bother to turn out now he's gone ... but it's all conjecture without another election ... wait and see in four years ...

''many won't have health insurance now'' - again you are using a crystal ball commentary - only when the PPACA is repealed, and only if any replacement has no provision for current policy holders, and only if current policy holders are not grandfathered, then and only then could there potentially be policy holders who lose their cover ... as I said it's crystal ball commentary, CNN stuff ... you just have to wait and see ...

"jobs back that are never coming back" - I take your excellent references on this, where I questioned your statement was in its blanket nature ... sure most heavy industry jobs will never return, but jobs in fabrication, clothing, communications, electronics? ... all these have left due to the cheaper costs of completing them abroad and then importing the end product or service back into the USA ... by making the cost of undertaking these jobs comparable in the USA then companies will bring them back ... operationally that just makes sense ... how to do that? import duties, tax breaks, subsidies, that's the tricky bit ... but in theory it can be done ...

It's great to have a poster who knows how to make a cogent argument, I unreservedly apologise for my earlier comments, still think you overstated your case but at least you backed it up .... thanks


Re march vs inauguration numbers: Pictures from the same angle show a more dense and widespread crowd for the march than for the inauguration. While there won't be concrete numbers for either, we can see that more people showed up for the DC march.

Re Trump's Cabinet: Many are unqualified because they lack the necessary experience and competence, and there are conflicts of interest with a few of them:
-Steve Bannon, Chief Strategist: Leninist edgelord
-Rex Tillerson, Secretary of State: close ties with Russia, appears uniformed about world events
-Betsy DeVos, Secretary of Education: no education experience, a lobbyist who wants to privatize education, no experience with public education and student loans, stake in a student loan company
-Rick Perry, Secretary of Energy: wanted to get rid of the department, didn't know what the department did
-Scott Pruitt, Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency: drill, baby, drill
-Ben Carson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: grew up in a Detroit ghetto, believes all people have to do is pull themselves up by the bootstraps to escape the hood (failing to realize he's the exception to the rule) ← But like I've said, I wouldn't have minded him as Surgeon General
-Jeff Sessions, Attorney General: accused of being racist many times over the years, dismisses civil rights
-Andrew Puzder, Secretary of Labor: opposes national minimum wage (good in theory since each state has different costs of living, but communism works in theory), vocal critic on worker's protections
Yes, I do believe the Senate will approve most of them despite their lack of competency for their nominated positions. A major problem in America today is people tend to vote along their respective party's line instead of going with their conscience. Our partisan government is known for gridlock.

Re jobs: Despite Trump saying he'll bring factory jobs back to the Rust Belt, manufacturing has already been coming back over the past few years, but not because of tariffs on imports. It's due to automation decreasing costs while increasing productivity. Robots can sew a shirt, construct a vehicle, and put together furniture more efficiently than humans. But, factory jobs aren't going to be the only ones automated; even transportation (e.g., truck drivers and public transportation employees) will be automated within the next 50 years. The problem is going to be reeducating those workers for future jobs instead of giving them false hope about jobs that are never coming back. Also because of automation, a universal basic income needs to be implemented, or there won't be many people who can purchase goods and services.
User avatar
LMAO
Member of the Year 2019
Member of the Year 2019
 
Posts: 9978
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: American Politics

Postby Angelito » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 am

If you guys have the time, watch this discussion. It's around 10 mins.



Discusses how Trump is basically starting his elitist plans, whilst demolishing civil liberties (and still lying). It also indicates how Americans are ill-informed.
Image
User avatar
Angelito
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 30592
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Lyra

Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:53 am

DiamondGooner wrote:Do you actually believe that you saying that makes it true or makes everyone else believe it?

Don't bother coming back tomorrow, I refuse to debate someone who can't even wrap their head around the concept of Brexit or what the vote was for.

UFGN wrote:
I'm perfectly happy with that quote.

What part of my statement do you disagree with? Are you saying that the Electoral colleague system is not meant to reflect the popular vote? Because frankly, that is exactly what it aspires to do. As I said, when that system doesn't return the popular candidate, that is a failure of FPTP.


You would be, because your too stupid to admit your wrong.

I disagree with all of it, its a fact that its not aspiring to represent the popular vote, otherwise they would just have the popular vote! the Electoral vote is based on representation per state as I already spelled out for you.

Your failure to accept reality has reduced this conversation to moronic levels, go debate with GA if you want that level of base discussion.



Im wasting my time. Stay stupid xx
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23527
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: American Politics

Postby RowdyRoddyPoppins » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:58 am

Right so UFGN has said he is wasting his time with DG, so will this finally be the end of this 'discussion' or will it continue on and on and on and on.....?

Stay tuned to Goonersworld.
RowdyRoddyPoppins
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7872
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Moe's Tavern

PreviousNext

Return to The Big Debate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests