Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Yorkyblue » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:14 am

Terrible isn't it.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby squiggle » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:18 am

But the ruling was that she didn't consent, wasn't it? https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

You can argue about how we can know that, but the verdict wasn't that she was too drunk to mean it.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Yorkyblue » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:20 am

Too drunk to remember despite not drinking much.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby RowdyRoddyPoppins » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:24 am

Yorkyblue wrote:Too drunk to remember despite not drinking much.



A very disturbing case isn't it?

Make no mistake about it, if I ever do something reckless or dumb like crash my car while speeding or take out a massive payday loan my excuse will be 'I was too drunk to know what I was doing, not my fault'.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Yorkyblue » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:26 am

That's the worst bit about this case even if he really is guilty. It opens up so much more than just this.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Santi » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:32 pm

And what if he was wasted as well? I know he wasn't but hypothetically speaking, then would it just be two drunk people having sex? She could still argue the same thing and I doubt him being drunk would get him off.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Welsh Gunner » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:08 pm

Mesüt wrote:And what if he was wasted as well? I know he wasn't but hypothetically speaking, then would it just be two drunk people having sex? She could still argue the same thing and I doubt him being drunk would get him off.

That's what really gets me, they're potentially opening a huge can of worms. There are literally thousands of people in the UK that go out on a weekend, get totally shitfaced & wake up the next morning alongside some random person. Is everyone of those people now a potential rapist ?
However morally wrong sleeping with random people is, it's done all the time.
They'd better build some bigger prisons pretty soon if Evans' case sets a precedent they're going to follow.
Bloody scandalous.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Massa » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:31 pm

If he was drunk too that would let him off
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Trina » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:34 pm

squiggle wrote:But the ruling was that she didn't consent, wasn't it? https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

You can argue about how we can know that, but the verdict wasn't that she was too drunk to mean it.


First time I have read all this.

Why did ched go to the hotel room knowing McDonald was there with a female?

And if it was ok for McDonald to sleep with her, why not ched? Seen as she has no memory of it. How come McDonald got nothing and ched was sent down?
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby AAIRE99 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:15 pm

Trina wrote:
squiggle wrote:But the ruling was that she didn't consent, wasn't it? https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

You can argue about how we can know that, but the verdict wasn't that she was too drunk to mean it.


First time I have read all this.

Why did ched go to the hotel room knowing McDonald was there with a female?

And if it was ok for McDonald to sleep with her, why not ched? Seen as she has no memory of it. How come McDonald got nothing and ched was sent down?


The weirdest thing was Evans left out the fire exit for me. Ye he shouldnt have went to the room at all what was he thinking. :X
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby S&W the no1Fan » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:32 pm

AAIRE99 wrote:
Trina wrote:
squiggle wrote:But the ruling was that she didn't consent, wasn't it? https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

You can argue about how we can know that, but the verdict wasn't that she was too drunk to mean it.


First time I have read all this.

Why did ched go to the hotel room knowing McDonald was there with a female?

And if it was ok for McDonald to sleep with her, why not ched? Seen as she has no memory of it. How come McDonald got nothing and ched was sent down?


The weirdest thing was Evans left out the fire exit for me. Ye he shouldnt have went to the room at all what was he thinking. :X


the guy is well known maybe he just wanted to be discreet about it. He was cheating after all.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Trina » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:22 pm

^^ If I remember right ( because that report was really long!) He had two friends waiting for him outside the hotel..
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby UFGN » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:36 am

This issue of drink is a complex one. The law should protect everyone and just because someone is drunk it shouldn't leave them as a sitting duck for a predator to attack them and get away with it.

However, if a woman, or man, drinks a lot or takes drugs, they do make themselves vulnerable. People have to take responsibility for positions they put themselves in. You are your own first and last defence against crime, including rape, and if you lower your guard, make stupid decisions and then become a victim, well you helped to cause that.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby Royal Gooner » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:05 am

The criminal defence of intoxication is a complicated one. If you intentionally got drunk, then the defence doesn't work. if your drink was spiked, then it does but only if the crime is requires specific intent. If it requires basic intent, the defence doesn't work either.
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Re: Ched Evans, rehabilitation of criminals etc

Postby S&W the no1Fan » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:16 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:The criminal defence of intoxication is a complicated one. If you intentionally got drunk, then the defence doesn't work. if your drink was spiked, then it does but only if the crime is requires specific intent. If it requires basic intent, the defence doesn't work either.


why isnt it the same with having sex then?

if getting drunk doesnt protect you from crimes that require basic intent. Cant consent to sex be seen as the legal equivalent?
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