Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discuss

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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby S&W the no1Fan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:47 pm

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
No1Fan wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:
No1Fan wrote:
ThereIsBearCüm wrote:I wouldn't.


well then that's up to you. It doesnt really effect you so obviously you wouldnt be expected to know the necessity of culling foxes that can indiscriminately take out all of a farmers chickens.

I bet if you're livelihood depended on it you would see things differently.

no difference between fox hunting and exterminating cockroaches imo


Nothing a fence won't fix.
FYI, my father in law's a farmer. I've worked on the farm and lived there for extended periods of time. I know exactly what it's like.


have you worked on every farm?


Have you?


no but im not trying to create a blanket rule for everyone. You are saying everyone can easily combat the danger of foxes and therefore fox hunting should be illegal like you are. I am saying fox hunting should be available to the people that need it.

Yours and your father inlaws experience does not apply to everyone

I think the new proposals state that you would need a license to do it so people cant legally wake up on a sunday morning and decide that they fancy hinting foxes.

I find it slightly hypocritical be some people that (not you specifically), that they're ok with people exterminating bugs and rodents, they're ok with people fishing without the purpose of eating the fish, they're ok with trapping and killing moles but when it's a fox suddenly the go up in arms about it.

As long as it is a wild animal that is not endangered i couldnt care less if someone else needs to kill them to better themselves. Who are people to say that the life of a fox is anymore valuable than the life of a fly.

Hunting with hounds is most painless way of killing foxes too.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Callum » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:56 pm

No1Fan wrote:Hunting with hounds is most painless way of killing foxes too.

You're either incredibly ignorant or just trolling at this point.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Royal Gooner » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:50 pm

Callum wrote:
No1Fan wrote:Hunting with hounds is most painless way of killing foxes too.

You're either incredibly ignorant or just trolling at this point.


Dogs trained to kill prey is quicker and more painless than shooting from a distance and letting it bleed to death.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Callum » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:15 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:
Callum wrote:
No1Fan wrote:Hunting with hounds is most painless way of killing foxes too.

You're either incredibly ignorant or just trolling at this point.


Dogs trained to kill prey is quicker and more painless than shooting from a distance and letting it bleed to death.

You're deluded if you really think that. There's nothing quick and painless about being chased for ages by a pack of dogs before being ripped to shreds by them. A properly trained gunman can finish it before the fox even knows it's been hit.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Massa » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:37 pm

Wait, being chased and mauled by a group of dogs is more painless than beings shot; where they'd die instantly?
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:53 pm

Callum wrote:
No1Fan wrote:Hunting with hounds is most painless way of killing foxes too.

You're either incredibly ignorant or just trolling at this point.


Yep. It's no surprise that he's been banned before for exactly that.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby S&W the no1Fan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:29 pm

Massa wrote:Wait, being chased and mauled by a group of dogs is more painless than beings shot; where they'd die instantly?


that is if they die instantly

Foxes arent aware of their impeding doom, they just react on instincts which is to run, once they are caught they die within seconds, mainly because atleast one hound snaps their necks.

To shoot a fox in the countryside not in the city, first you cannot be close as they will not even be around, so you have to do it from a far distance, farmers arent marksmen so most likely they wont kill a fox immediately from a shot, often they injure foxes and the fox either dies a slow and painful death or they are seriously injured in a way that prevents them from going about their day to day work.

It is only because we look at the whole situation in terms of how a human would perceive it (anthropomorphize) that many people think it is cruel. Its a shame that you arent allowed to present an opinion about things that most people are either ignorant to or they differ without being called a troll.

Setting traps, shooting, and poisoning usually results in a fox being in pain for a far longer time that being mauled by 40 dogs where they die within 10 seconds nearly all the time.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby S&W the no1Fan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:33 pm

Callum wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
Callum wrote:
No1Fan wrote:Hunting with hounds is most painless way of killing foxes too.

You're either incredibly ignorant or just trolling at this point.


Dogs trained to kill prey is quicker and more painless than shooting from a distance and letting it bleed to death.

You're deluded if you really think that. There's nothing quick and painless about being chased for ages by a pack of dogs before being ripped to shreds by them. A properly trained gunman can finish it before the fox even knows it's been hit.


where are these properly trained gun men that can kill foxes instantly from 50 yards off at 100 percent success rate?

Foxes do not worry about dieing fear and running is a natural survival instinct there have been foxes that have actually killed prey whilst being on chases because they use instincts and reflexes not emotions. Stop trying to apply human emotions and rationality to them being chased by 40 dogs would be no different to being chased by a bear, danger is danger to them. Once the danger is over they go about their day as normal, no worrying, no emotional scaring no depression nothing (if they escape)
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Massa » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:44 pm

No1Fan wrote:To shoot a fox in the countryside not in the city, first you cannot be close as they will not even be around, so you have to do it from a far distance, farmers arent marksmen so most likely they wont kill a fox immediately from a shot, often they injure foxes and the fox either dies a slow and painful death

No, they'd follow up with a secondary shot. Getting mauled by dogs may take 10 seconds but the chase does not.

This is all assuming we need to cull foxes too
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby S&W the no1Fan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:31 pm

Massa wrote:
No1Fan wrote:To shoot a fox in the countryside not in the city, first you cannot be close as they will not even be around, so you have to do it from a far distance, farmers arent marksmen so most likely they wont kill a fox immediately from a shot, often they injure foxes and the fox either dies a slow and painful death

No, they'd follow up with a secondary shot. Getting mauled by dogs may take 10 seconds but the chase does not.

This is all assuming we need to cull foxes too


From a far distance it is difficult to tell if you have killed a fox and you do not always have an opportunity to shoot a second time. even then most marks men still use dogs to retrieve the foxes. There's actually a report by scientists stating that most gamekeepers (people trained to shoot animals) from 100 yards injure as many foxes as they kill (50% kill ratio) and even from 50 yards they still usually only kill 60%.

http://appmwg.org.uk/images/stories/pdf ... _foxes.pdf

the link is there if you want to read. So this isnt hearsay it is backed up by scientific research.

Those are marksmen however and not the average farmer who has no hope in hell of hitting foxes from a distance.

Culling foxes shouldnt be up for debate that is still legal in this country just not via using hounds.

foxes being chased before they die is irrelevant. It's not as if they know they're going to die during the chase they just react on instincts and run. Whether they are shot in the head from 100 yards or chased for and hour and mauled to death, in neither situation would they be aware of their impending doom.

If they dont know they are going to die it is hardly mental torture, the physical tiredness is irrelevant they die either way and would actually be in less physical pain on average if they were mauled by 40 dogs.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby ClockEnd Mark » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:48 pm

No1Fan wrote:
Massa wrote:Wait, being chased and mauled by a group of dogs is more painless than beings shot; where they'd die instantly?


that is if they die instantly

Foxes arent aware of their impeding doom, they just react on instincts which is to run,


And you know this because, how many foxes have you communicated with again? None. You dont know jack shit. Fox hunting is savage and barbaric and has NO place in this day and age.

A fox will kill for food to feed its young. Humans do fox hunting for a jolly up.
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Royal Gooner » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:19 pm

ClockEnd Mark wrote:
No1Fan wrote:
Massa wrote:Wait, being chased and mauled by a group of dogs is more painless than beings shot; where they'd die instantly?


that is if they die instantly

Foxes arent aware of their impeding doom, they just react on instincts which is to run,


And you know this because, how many foxes have you communicated with again? None. You dont know jack shit. Fox hunting is savage and barbaric and has NO place in this day and age.

A fox will kill for food to feed its young. Humans do fox hunting for a jolly up.


Need I remind you of Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum".

Also, so you're fine with foxes running free unchecked and thus risking the livelihoods of our country farmers then?
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:09 am

Royal Gooner wrote:
ClockEnd Mark wrote:
No1Fan wrote:
Massa wrote:Wait, being chased and mauled by a group of dogs is more painless than beings shot; where they'd die instantly?


that is if they die instantly

Foxes arent aware of their impeding doom, they just react on instincts which is to run,


And you know this because, how many foxes have you communicated with again? None. You dont know jack shit. Fox hunting is savage and barbaric and has NO place in this day and age.

A fox will kill for food to feed its young. Humans do fox hunting for a jolly up.


Need I remind you of Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum".

Also, so you're fine with foxes running free unchecked and thus risking the livelihoods of our country farmers then?


Because barbarically hunting foxes or doing nothing are the only two options?
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Tony_Adams » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:31 am

No1Fan wrote:foxes being chased before they die is irrelevant. It's not as if they know they're going to die during the chase they just react on instincts and run.


http://www.animalethics.org.uk/foxhunting.html

Claim: Hunted foxes my die even when they are not killed directly by a hunt. Some foxes may be too exhausted to recover and subsequent lack of hunting success leads to a downward spiral of starvation, susceptibility to disease and an early death.

Claim: Foxes escaping the hounds after a long chase may die from stress long after the hunt
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Re: Should Fox hunting be made legal again in the UK? Discus

Postby Massa » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:23 am

Plymöuth Gööner wrote:
No1Fan wrote:foxes being chased before they die is irrelevant. It's not as if they know they're going to die during the chase they just react on instincts and run.


http://www.animalethics.org.uk/foxhunting.html

Claim: Hunted foxes my die even when they are not killed directly by a hunt. Some foxes may be too exhausted to recover and subsequent lack of hunting success leads to a downward spiral of starvation, susceptibility to disease and an early death.

Claim: Foxes escaping the hounds after a long chase may die from stress long after the hunt

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