Gay Marriage

[Maradonna]

I just don't get why people give a shit so much. How does two blokes getting married affect your life in any negative way?

f***ing old, bigoted c*nts

This is why I'm so proud of the Founding Fathers for having the foresight to know that separation of church and state would be best for America. Can't believe these f***ers are still trying to put their outdated holy book in secular law. f**k your marriage ideals because marriage =/= Christian values, and marriage was a thing wayyyyy before religion came about. Also, I love how they get so riled up about little things like gay marriage when they don't have a problem themselves eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabric clothing. Bunch of cherrypicking asswipes.

Good thing their influence is dwindling by the day. First the Confederate flag. Then Obamacare. Now gay marriage. It's certainly been a week of utter fails for them. When will they learn that they're fighting a losing battle?

it is not about religion, its about tribal tradition.
Its about fearing what it is unknown.
This is great on so many levels because it was a very conservative supreme court that voted for it.
The Reagan/Nixon ideology that poisoned the south is finally being cleaned.
Next elections are critical.
As i always said to the americans that i know.
"you hold the destiny of the entire planet when you vote for president" if you vote "correctly" it impacts on the entire world population.
hopefully hillary gets elected.
it would be terrible to have another bush for 4 years again.
f**k republicans
f**k them hard.

Fearing what is unknown is probably part of why religions were created. So yes, it is definitely about religion, because if it didn’t have that specific part in Leviticus we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

just no,
if you wanna know about what religion is and how religion works you dont go and ask to a neuroscientist (i know you are a Harris lover) you go to Harvard divinity school.

You're not even making sense, this has nothing to do with that.

yes it does, you put canonical text as the major force of why gay people where persecuted.
when you ignore that even some christian sects were practicising same sex marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis
by blaming persecution on religion we are just ignoring reality.
reality is that, as religion justifys hate, also science does:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

again, blaming religion on why same sex marrage was not legal in the USA is a very unsophisticated way of analizing the situation, is the easy way out.
The manual was 130 pages long and listed 106 mental disorders.[14] These included several categories of "personality disturbance", generally distinguished from "neurosis" (nervousness, egodystonic).[15] In 1952, the APA listed homosexuality in the DSM as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals, a large-scale 1962 study of homosexuality, was used to justify inclusion of the disorder as a supposed pathological hidden fear of the opposite sex caused by traumatic parent–child relationships. This view was widely influential in the medical profession.

you dont see anyone claiming science is the reason why homosexuals where persecuted.

Religion is not the enemy.
neither is science. they are just lenguages to describe the human experience.

[Maradonna]

I think he's making the point that there is more than Leviticus against it.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 for example.

That is still religion.

lol canonical texts are not religion.
you are very messed up.
you read the texts as a fundamentalist yet you complain about fundamentalism
Harris is a walking contradiction, dont take that road.

[StLGooner]

I just don't get why people give a shit so much. How does two blokes getting married affect your life in any negative way?

f***ing old, bigoted c*nts

This is why I'm so proud of the Founding Fathers for having the foresight to know that separation of church and state would be best for America. Can't believe these f***ers are still trying to put their outdated holy book in secular law. f**k your marriage ideals because marriage =/= Christian values, and marriage was a thing wayyyyy before religion came about. Also, I love how they get so riled up about little things like gay marriage when they don't have a problem themselves eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabric clothing. Bunch of cherrypicking asswipes.

Good thing their influence is dwindling by the day. First the Confederate flag. Then Obamacare. Now gay marriage. It's certainly been a week of utter fails for them. When will they learn that they're fighting a losing battle?

it is not about religion, its about tribal tradition.
Its about fearing what it is unknown.
This is great on so many levels because it was a very conservative supreme court that voted for it.
The Reagan/Nixon ideology that poisoned the south is finally being cleaned.
Next elections are critical.
As i always said to the americans that i know.
"you hold the destiny of the entire planet when you vote for president" if you vote "correctly" it impacts on the entire world population.
hopefully hillary gets elected.
it would be terrible to have another bush for 4 years again.
f**k republicans
f**k them hard.

Fearing what is unknown is probably part of why religions were created. So yes, it is definitely about religion, because if it didn’t have that specific part in Leviticus we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

just no,
if you wanna know about what religion is and how religion works you dont go and ask to a neuroscientist (i know you are a Harris lover) you go to Harvard divinity school.

You're not even making sense, this has nothing to do with that.

yes it does, you put canonical text as the major force of why gay people where persecuted.
when you ignore that even some christian sects were practicising same sex marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis
by blaming persecution on religion we are just ignoring reality.
reality is that, as religion justifys hate, also science does:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

again, blaming religion on why same sex marrage was not legal in the USA is a very unsophisticated way of analizing the situation, is the easy way out.
The manual was 130 pages long and listed 106 mental disorders.[14] These included several categories of "personality disturbance", generally distinguished from "neurosis" (nervousness, egodystonic).[15] In 1952, the APA listed homosexuality in the DSM as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals, a large-scale 1962 study of homosexuality, was used to justify inclusion of the disorder as a supposed pathological hidden fear of the opposite sex caused by traumatic parent–child relationships. This view was widely influential in the medical profession.

you dont see anyone claiming science is the reason why homosexuals where persecuted.

Religion is not the enemy.
neither is science. they are just lenguages to describe the human experience.

You're just making a bunch of assumptions that are all wrong based off a sentence or two. My point is that there are other factors, but to say that religion isn't one of them is ignorant.

[Maradonna]

I just don't get why people give a shit so much. How does two blokes getting married affect your life in any negative way?

f***ing old, bigoted c*nts

This is why I'm so proud of the Founding Fathers for having the foresight to know that separation of church and state would be best for America. Can't believe these f***ers are still trying to put their outdated holy book in secular law. f**k your marriage ideals because marriage =/= Christian values, and marriage was a thing wayyyyy before religion came about. Also, I love how they get so riled up about little things like gay marriage when they don't have a problem themselves eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabric clothing. Bunch of cherrypicking asswipes.

Good thing their influence is dwindling by the day. First the Confederate flag. Then Obamacare. Now gay marriage. It's certainly been a week of utter fails for them. When will they learn that they're fighting a losing battle?

it is not about religion, its about tribal tradition.
Its about fearing what it is unknown.
This is great on so many levels because it was a very conservative supreme court that voted for it.
The Reagan/Nixon ideology that poisoned the south is finally being cleaned.
Next elections are critical.
As i always said to the americans that i know.
"you hold the destiny of the entire planet when you vote for president" if you vote "correctly" it impacts on the entire world population.
hopefully hillary gets elected.
it would be terrible to have another bush for 4 years again.
f**k republicans
f**k them hard.

Fearing what is unknown is probably part of why religions were created. So yes, it is definitely about religion, because if it didn’t have that specific part in Leviticus we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

just no,
if you wanna know about what religion is and how religion works you dont go and ask to a neuroscientist (i know you are a Harris lover) you go to Harvard divinity school.

You're not even making sense, this has nothing to do with that.

yes it does, you put canonical text as the major force of why gay people where persecuted.
when you ignore that even some christian sects were practicising same sex marriage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis
by blaming persecution on religion we are just ignoring reality.
reality is that, as religion justifys hate, also science does:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

again, blaming religion on why same sex marrage was not legal in the USA is a very unsophisticated way of analizing the situation, is the easy way out.
The manual was 130 pages long and listed 106 mental disorders.[14] These included several categories of "personality disturbance", generally distinguished from "neurosis" (nervousness, egodystonic).[15] In 1952, the APA listed homosexuality in the DSM as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals, a large-scale 1962 study of homosexuality, was used to justify inclusion of the disorder as a supposed pathological hidden fear of the opposite sex caused by traumatic parent–child relationships. This view was widely influential in the medical profession.

you dont see anyone claiming science is the reason why homosexuals where persecuted.

Religion is not the enemy.
neither is science. they are just lenguages to describe the human experience.

You're just making a bunch of assumptions that are all wrong based off a sentence or two. My point is that there are other factors, but to say that religion isn't one of them is ignorant.

ignorant is taking a cannonical text that was written 2000 years ago and take it literally.
you are just as ignorant as a fundamentalist.

[Jackson]

again, blaming religion on why same sex marrage was not legal in the USA is a very unsophisticated way of analizing the situation, is the easy way out.

[UFGN]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

[Maradonna]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

[UFGN]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

[Maradonna]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. Tue bible condemns gays. To question about it.

religion is whatever you think it is.

http://worldhistoryconnected.press.illinois.edu/4.1/moore.html

[Maradonna]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

the bible also says that jesus was born in belen, and had no brothers or sisters, and did not got married.
if the text is wrong, then the text is wrong.
religion has nothing to do with the text.
probably only 5% of christians have an sophisticated understanding of what the bible is and how it should be readed.
to suggest that the text is the reason why christians are against gays is simple false.
Christians in general are against homosexuality because of victorian tradition more than because of what christianity preaches.


Michel Foucault has argued that homosexual and heterosexual identities didn't emerge until the 19th century; before that time terms described practices and not identity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_morality

[UFGN]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

the bible also says that jesus was born in belen, and had no brothers or sisters, and did not got married.
if the text is wrong, then the text is wrong.
religion has nothing to do with the text.
probably only 5% of christians have an sophisticated understanding of what the bible is and how it should be readed.
to suggest that the text is the reason why christians are against gays is simple false.
Christians in general are against homosexuality because of victorian tradition more than because of what christianity is.

The bible is wrong because God doesn't exist and Christianity is a steaming vat of bollocks. That is completely irrelevant to whether you condemn the religion or the bigoted individual.

The point is the bigot uses the religion and it's text to discriminate against gays.

[Maradonna]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

the bible also says that jesus was born in belen, and had no brothers or sisters, and did not got married.
if the text is wrong, then the text is wrong.
religion has nothing to do with the text.
probably only 5% of christians have an sophisticated understanding of what the bible is and how it should be readed.
to suggest that the text is the reason why christians are against gays is simple false.
Christians in general are against homosexuality because of victorian tradition more than because of what christianity is.

The bible is wrong because God doesn't exist and Christianity is a steaming vat of bollocks. That is completely irrelevant to whether you condemn the religion or the bigoted individual.
.

i thought that we were having an intelligent conversation here.
I was wrong.

The point is the bigot uses the religion and it's text to discriminate against gays

I hear more about scientific conclusions than theological ones.
the anti natura rhetoric is much more powerful than the immoral one
specially in a time where a neuroscientist is some sort of voice of reason when it comes to religion.

[UFGN]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

the bible also says that jesus was born in belen, and had no brothers or sisters, and did not got married.
if the text is wrong, then the text is wrong.
religion has nothing to do with the text.
probably only 5% of christians have an sophisticated understanding of what the bible is and how it should be readed.
to suggest that the text is the reason why christians are against gays is simple false.
Christians in general are against homosexuality because of victorian tradition more than because of what christianity is.

The bible is wrong because God doesn't exist and Christianity is a steaming vat of bollocks. That is completely irrelevant to whether you condemn the religion or the bigoted individual.

The point is the bigot uses the religion and it's text to discriminate against gays.

i thought that we were having an intelligent conversation here.
I was wrong.

The whole problem here is you not understanding what I said in the first place about discrediting religious objections , so please don't try to patronise me sunshine.

[Maradonna]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

the bible also says that jesus was born in belen, and had no brothers or sisters, and did not got married.
if the text is wrong, then the text is wrong.
religion has nothing to do with the text.
probably only 5% of christians have an sophisticated understanding of what the bible is and how it should be readed.
to suggest that the text is the reason why christians are against gays is simple false.
Christians in general are against homosexuality because of victorian tradition more than because of what christianity is.

The bible is wrong because God doesn't exist and Christianity is a steaming vat of bollocks. That is completely irrelevant to whether you condemn the religion or the bigoted individual.

The point is the bigot uses the religion and it's text to discriminate against gays.

i thought that we were having an intelligent conversation here.
I was wrong.

The whole problem here is you not understanding what I said in the first place about discrediting religious argument, so please don't try to patronise me sunshine.

im not trying to patronise you.
you are saying that religion is used to condome homsexual conducts.
just like science, just like culture, just like morals.
its not about religion, its about embrasing otherty.
If a religious guy tells you that you are wrong because you are gay, that is just laughable.
Its like a guy meassuring the size of ones head to determine criminality.
we are on the XXI century, that sort of simplistic way of looking at religion should not be allowed.
who cares what the pope has to say about gay conducts, Secular thinking is going to made his way either the pope like it or not.
Religion is not institutions, is not a canonical text. religion is just a lenguage.


people give religion too much credit, i think that is my point.

and as you know im an academic and philosophy is my field.
regarding god:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
it is pretty hard to fight against that undestanding of divinity.
dont think in god as a guy with a beard.

[UFGN]

Religion has always been used as a tool by people and organisations to oppress other people.

That's why its important to discredit the religious objections. Take away the tools, or the justification, and you ultimately destroy the basis for discrimination.

you dont descredit religion, you discredit the fool who thinks that religion has anything to do with the subject matter at all.

You can't separate religion from its holy text. The bible condemns gays. No question about it.

the bible also says that jesus was born in belen, and had no brothers or sisters, and did not got married.
if the text is wrong, then the text is wrong.
religion has nothing to do with the text.
probably only 5% of christians have an sophisticated understanding of what the bible is and how it should be readed.
to suggest that the text is the reason why christians are against gays is simple false.
Christians in general are against homosexuality because of victorian tradition more than because of what christianity is.

The bible is wrong because God doesn't exist and Christianity is a steaming vat of bollocks. That is completely irrelevant to whether you condemn the religion or the bigoted individual.

The point is the bigot uses the religion and it's text to discriminate against gays.

i thought that we were having an intelligent conversation here.
I was wrong.

The whole problem here is you not understanding what I said in the first place about discrediting religious argument, so please don't try to patronise me sunshine.

im not trying to patronise you.
you are saying that religion is used to condome homsexual conducts.
just like science, just like culture, just like morals.
its not about religion, its about embrasing otherty.
If a religious guy tells you that you are wrong because you are gay, that is just laughable.
Its like a guy meassuring the size of ones head to determine criminality.
we are on the XXI century, that sort of simplistic way of looking at religion should not be allowed.
who cares what the pope has to say about gay conducts, Secular thinking is going to made his way either the pope like it or not.
Religion is not institutions, is not a canonical text. religion is just a lenguage.


people give religion too much credit, i think that is my point.

You think that's your point? Well I'm glad you have a vague idea what it is. You don't debate , you just go off on your own tangent about irrelevant issues, then accuse others of not being as intelligent as you. Its boring, you're boring and I cant invest.

I'm out.