Should the veil be banned in the UK?

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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby She_Gunner_Wales » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:31 pm

Im not against the veil but do find it intimidating.
Just as anyone else would should i decide to wear a balaclava everywhere.

Im not against them practising their religion here, but what i am dead set against is the fact that some ethnics & moreso our own government, try to change our ways to accomodate other cultures!

How dare they!!!
My answer to it is simple ... if you dont approve of our ways & traditions or religion then dont come here.
Obviously there those who have different religions who are born here, but then they should be more understanding or tolerent even, of the British ways.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Cheese » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:36 pm

She_Gunner_Wales wrote:Im not against the veil but do find it intimidating.
Just as anyone else would should i decide to wear a balaclava everywhere.

Im not against them practising their religion here, but what i am dead set against is the fact that some ethnics & moreso our own government, try to change our ways to accomodate other cultures!

How dare they!!!
My answer to it is simple ... if you dont approve of our ways & traditions or religion then dont come here.
Obviously there those who have different religions who are born here, but then they should be more understanding or tolerent even, of the British ways.

Spot on S_G_W thats exsactly the point i was trying to make earlier about going to their coutries and respecting there culture.
Worded it much better that me :D
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Reverend Gooner » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:53 pm

REG wrote:Yes they should
I know from experience on prison vists that they do not get searched unlike everyone else so why the difference?????


Surely the issue here is to get them searched at prisons rather than banning veils countrywide because of it?

All_Arsenal_1886 wrote:Anyone remember the London bommer who escaped the country in a veil? Surely thats a good enough reason?


No


how comes if you wear a veil they don't check your passport just not to offened anyone? seems stupid to me


Again the issue is to get passport control to do so, not to ban them because of it.


Also my stepfather works in the police in a certain area in London and he has told me that alot of known terriorest wear veils to hide themselfs.


There may be a few potential terrorists who do that but if they did not use that means they would just use another. The number of people doing that compared to ordinary citizens is so minute that it is just not a plausable option. To ban veils would be an incredibly discriminatory and insulting thing to do and to be honest if the aspect through which we are looking at this is "terrorism" then i dare say that insulting Islam by banning veils will increase the terror threat rather than reduce it.


She Gunner Wales wrote:My answer to it is simple ... if you dont approve of our ways & traditions or religion then dont come here


Our traditions, ways and beliefs are that a person has the right to wear what they want and express themselves whichever way they want within the boundaries of the law. By choosing to wear a veil they are following our ways and traditions.

our own government, try to change our ways to accomodate other cultures!


I don't get what you mean, how have your ways been changed because muslim women are able to wear veils?

Im not against the veil but do find it intimidating


To be honest so do i sometimes but i find hoodies 10 times more intimidating than veils and would sooner see them banned any day (not that being intimidated by an item of clothing is reason to get it banned)


Sorry for the endless quotes :lol: every time i have previewed a new message has come up :lol: Oh and i am not being provocative at all, in case it seems that way.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby She_Gunner_Wales » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:24 pm

Argh! im still trying to get used to this new set-up so ive put my replies in blue! ;) :lol:


Reverend Gooner wrote:

She Gunner Wales wrote:My answer to it is simple ... if you dont approve of our ways & traditions or religion then dont come here


Our traditions, ways and beliefs are that a person has the right to wear what they want and express themselves whichever way they want within the boundaries of the law. By choosing to wear a veil they are following our ways and traditions.

How do you work that one out? all i see it as is the freedom of western ways.

Maybe a misunderstanding here, but i mainly meant muslims ect being offended by our religion, & how we celebrate christmas.
We have Queen who is the head of our country, who is the head of the church of england.....christianity.


our own government, try to change our ways to accomodate other cultures!


I don't get what you mean, how have your ways been changed because muslim women are able to wear veils?
see my reply above, it was more to do with british tradition than the veil itself

Im not against the veil but do find it intimidating


To be honest so do i sometimes but i find hoodies 10 times more intimidating than veils and would sooner see them banned any day (not that being intimidated by an item of clothing is reason to get it banned)
I didnt say it should be banned, like i originally stated, im not against other religions being practised here, but what i am against is the fact that this is british soil and we should not have things like christmas trees & nativity scenes taken down because it may cause offence to other peoples beliefs.

As mentioned i do find the FULL veil intimidating, but that doesnt mean i think it should be banned here, At least with hoodies you can see their faces.

My main point is that we are tolerant of their beliefs, we allow them to worship in their way & build Mosques ect & they should extend that courtesy to our religeous beiefs be that Christian or Catholic, i know this is only the minority & its the gov PC brigade that often bow to an odd comment made by someone of a dif religion ect.

Sorry for the endless quotes :lol: every time i have previewed a new message has come up :lol: Oh and i am not being provocative at all, in case it seems that way.


No problems. we all have our own views whether we agree or not. ;)
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Reverend Gooner » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:47 pm

She_Gunner_Wales wrote:Argh! im still trying to get used to this new set-up so ive put my replies in blue! ;) :lol:


:lol: I empathise, the reason a new message appeared every time i previewed was because it was taking me so long to do my message :lol: (loving the new set up though)


Yes i misunderstood you, i thought you were solely discussing veils. I completely agree with you about other religions/nationalities being offended by British tradition, it should work both ways. We have the right to express ourselves any way we wish within the law and others have no right to be offended.

What really grinds my gears is this government and their PC brigade tipping the balance in the anti-Brit favour. Do they not realise that by doing so they are creating divides rather than fixing them :bang:


No problems. we all have our own views whether we agree or not.


Indeed :l: . I thought i would clarify because a group of guys got really aggressive and unreasonable with me about the subject the other day and i was being perfectly friendly when discussing it. It has kind of got me a bit wary of the topic, lol, seems to be a volatile one these days :lol:
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Windass10 » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:05 am

She_Gunner_Wales wrote:Im not against the veil but do find it intimidating.
Just as anyone else would should i decide to wear a balaclava everywhere.

Im not against them practising their religion here, but what i am dead set against is the fact that some ethnics & moreso our own government, try to change our ways to accomodate other cultures!

How dare they!!!
My answer to it is simple ... if you dont approve of our ways & traditions or religion then dont come here.
Obviously there those who have different religions who are born here, but then they should be more understanding or tolerent even, of the British ways.

Listen leave it out will ya, As Muslims we can practise our religion and we do obide the laws and regulations in this country enough said, the veil is part of Islam and it wont be banned trust me ots compulasary and I suggest it will stay like that.
The government aint changed ways to accomodate other cultures what do you mean? its the way this country is simple and easy. We has muslims follow our religion and we dont impose our rules on the government or anything so whats your point sgw?
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby She_Gunner_Wales » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:25 am

No need to get aggressive Raj, this is not a personal attack!
And neither is it a racist one if that is what you may be thinking.
I was NOT saying you dont abide by our laws, obvioulsy there are good & bad in all no matter what race or creed that reside in Britain. That we dont need reminding of, especdailly in the current climate of things.

Im NOT saying the veil should be banned, (for the umpteenth time!) however on the veil topic it is not a compulsary part of the religeon it is one of choice....as you said yourself, in islam women cover their heads with the scarf.
I repeat even though i do find it slightly intimidating i do not oppose it...each to their own.

I'll go back to december of last year & Dubai...i recall reading an article on how teenagers & young people of the country which is mainly Islam, and how westernised they actually were seen to be, even Dubai Airport had a wonderfully extravagant christmas tree that would put shame to some in the UK or even America. I know Dubai is a country which allows other religions to be practised but at the same time they have respect for our beliefs. If the authorities in that country can make a stand & errect a christmas tree to welcome its tourists why cant out government stand strong to the beliefs of our own country & say point blank no to taking our celebrations of christmas down?

My point being is that our government bows to almost every complaint by someone not of christian or catholic belief, this annoys me, they talk of british christian/catholic children of this day not knowing the true meaning of christmas, yet they take down nativity scenes & Christmas trees for fear of offence to other cultures...THIS IS WRONG!
WHY should my children be denied of this because of a culture & religion which is not British?

Like i said previously this is something that our own government have caused & a SMALL MINORITY of those that have differing beliefs.

As Reverend Gooner has said:
What really grinds my gears is this government and their PC brigade tipping the balance in the anti-Brit favour. Do they not realise that by doing so they are creating divides rather than fixing them


I 100% AGREE!
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Cheese » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:30 am

Thats one of the reasons i didn't want to put up this debate, i was affaid it might turn into a racial one and thats not what i wanted.
I'm not racsist and never will be, how can you judge someone by there race or religion? You can't!

Please don't think thats what this was about.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Windass10 » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:43 pm

She_Gunner_Wales wrote:No need to get aggressive Raj, this is not a personal attack!
And neither is it a racist one if that is what you may be thinking.
I was NOT saying you dont abide by our laws, obvioulsy there are good & bad in all no matter what race or creed that reside in Britain. That we dont need reminding of, especdailly in the current climate of things.

Im NOT saying the veil should be banned, (for the umpteenth time!) however on the veil topic it is not a compulsary part of the religeon it is one of choice....as you said yourself, in islam women cover their heads with the scarf.
I repeat even though i do find it slightly intimidating i do not oppose it...each to their own.

I'll go back to december of last year & Dubai...i recall reading an article on how teenagers & young people of the country which is mainly Islam, and how westernised they actually were seen to be, even Dubai Airport had a wonderfully extravagant christmas tree that would put shame to some in the UK or even America. I know Dubai is a country which allows other religions to be practised but at the same time they have respect for our beliefs. If the authorities in that country can make a stand & errect a christmas tree to welcome its tourists why cant out government stand strong to the beliefs of our own country & say point blank no to taking our celebrations of christmas down?

My point being is that our government bows to almost every complaint by someone not of christian or catholic belief, this annoys me, they talk of british christian/catholic children of this day not knowing the true meaning of christmas, yet they take down nativity scenes & Christmas trees for fear of offence to other cultures...THIS IS WRONG!
WHY should my children be denied of this because of a culture & religion which is not British?

Like i said previously this is something that our own government have caused & a SMALL MINORITY of those that have differing beliefs.

As Reverend Gooner has said:
What really grinds my gears is this government and their PC brigade tipping the balance in the anti-Brit favour. Do they not realise that by doing so they are creating divides rather than fixing them


I 100% AGREE!

My apologies I can sense where your coming from, I know what you mean but the veil isnt compulsary agree. The government have messed up on alot of issues but overall I can say the laws are being followed by most cultures and religions, the society in general what we live in is getting baddier and bad each day/
As for this veil issue its a religious tradition and it wont ever be removed or banned I can reassure you that or it will be world war 3 people will start to thnk their religion is been made a target not that it is.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby Git » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:58 pm

I do hate the fact that the government seem to overcompensate for other cultures. Don't get me wrong, we need immigration to stay afloat, the Poles (mainly) take jobs no-one else wants and do them for in comparison to their country, a decent wage - though it does allow lazy bastards on unemployment benefits to flourish! > : (

Anyway, too much digression there, back to the govt. overdoing it...

Examples:

Signs in 10 odd languages.

Political correctness! This pisses me right off, to be honest. You can't say anything these days without offending some culture. Brainstorm? Not PC. :/

Benefits for illegals.

I hate this government. P
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby SuperDumbassman » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:36 am

ChVint22 wrote:Welcome to the USA guys, that sh*t goes on everyday here. People have invaded our country and a lot of them illegally and asked us to change our ways so as not to offend them. I'm not religious at all, but we have taken religion out of our schools, businesses and everything in order to not offend people that moved here but were not born here. We pay more taxes because illegal immigrants exploit our system, they come over here and then ask for assistance in living which makes the legal US citizen pay more taxes. They are even trying to change the language in some states from English to Spanish. It's f*cking unbelievable. I'm all for any race, religion, sex, whatever coming and enjoying life in the USA, but please don't expect us to change for you so as to not hurt your feelings or your religion. I think it was last year in Seattle, Wa, that someone complained about a christmas tree and a nativity seen of mother mary and baby Jesus, they complained that it wasn't part of their religion and that they don't celebrate Christmas, so they asked the city to take it down and they did. :shock:



You better be Native American, otherwise you're spewing utter bullshit. :brick:

People illegally "invading" your country are doing the exact same thing that your ancestors did hundreds of years ago..

I can't believe the ignorance of some people..

Your country is the exact same as mine (Australia). We're all settlers (except for the Aboriginals) from Britain. We changed the language and the culture. I doubt we ever asked them if they gave a shit.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby ken day » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:24 am

OH we are on this again, we have done it twice before.
I am 100% against them, how did one of the buss bombers get out of Britain, put on his sisters robes and veil and nicked her passport. A few years ago i was working on the outside of a building in mid winter, we had belavlavas on and when we went to the cafe the police stopped us and told us to take them off.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby absolutely_fabregas » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:49 am

agree wiv ken :cool:
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby StLGooner » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:57 pm

SuperDumbassman wrote:
ChVint22 wrote:Welcome to the USA guys, that sh*t goes on everyday here. People have invaded our country and a lot of them illegally and asked us to change our ways so as not to offend them. I'm not religious at all, but we have taken religion out of our schools, businesses and everything in order to not offend people that moved here but were not born here. We pay more taxes because illegal immigrants exploit our system, they come over here and then ask for assistance in living which makes the legal US citizen pay more taxes. They are even trying to change the language in some states from English to Spanish. It's f*cking unbelievable. I'm all for any race, religion, sex, whatever coming and enjoying life in the USA, but please don't expect us to change for you so as to not hurt your feelings or your religion. I think it was last year in Seattle, Wa, that someone complained about a christmas tree and a nativity seen of mother mary and baby Jesus, they complained that it wasn't part of their religion and that they don't celebrate Christmas, so they asked the city to take it down and they did. :shock:



You better be Native American, otherwise you're spewing utter bullshit. :brick:

People illegally "invading" your country are doing the exact same thing that your ancestors did hundreds of years ago..

I can't believe the ignorance of some people..

Your country is the exact same as mine (Australia). We're all settlers (except for the Aboriginals) from Britain. We changed the language and the culture. I doubt we ever asked them if they gave a shit.



Thats completely beside the point here. That was a whole different time, and era, I was born and raised in the US, so to me its home, and its my country. I can't be blamed for what my anscestors did. I can't claim some European country because thats were my ancestors are from. My ancestors were from multiple countries thats what America is made of. I agree with you on my ancestors invading this country, they came from England and all over Europe, however I don't believe it was illegal at the time as this land was not claimed. Yes there were Indians here, but it wasn't even a known territory to anyone else, yes it was wrong and it has left the Indian population almost non-existant, but that is something totally different as to what is happening now.

Now we have laws in place, we have established culture and a way of life. But these illegal immigrants exploit our system and we end up paying for it, via taxes, to support illegal families that cannot support themselves.

So are you telling me that even though you are a so called "settler" you wouldn't be mad if the same was happening to your country? you wouldn't be upset if illegal people tried to come into your country and change your way of life? I think you would. Two wrongs don't make a right. So watch who you call ignorant, you dumb ass hypocrite.
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Re: Should the veil be banned in the UK?

Postby SE13 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:10 pm

ChVint22 wrote:
SuperDumbassman wrote:
ChVint22 wrote:Welcome to the USA guys, that sh*t goes on everyday here. People have invaded our country and a lot of them illegally and asked us to change our ways so as not to offend them. I'm not religious at all, but we have taken religion out of our schools, businesses and everything in order to not offend people that moved here but were not born here. We pay more taxes because illegal immigrants exploit our system, they come over here and then ask for assistance in living which makes the legal US citizen pay more taxes. They are even trying to change the language in some states from English to Spanish. It's f*cking unbelievable. I'm all for any race, religion, sex, whatever coming and enjoying life in the USA, but please don't expect us to change for you so as to not hurt your feelings or your religion. I think it was last year in Seattle, Wa, that someone complained about a christmas tree and a nativity seen of mother mary and baby Jesus, they complained that it wasn't part of their religion and that they don't celebrate Christmas, so they asked the city to take it down and they did. :shock:



You better be Native American, otherwise you're spewing utter bullshit. :brick:

People illegally "invading" your country are doing the exact same thing that your ancestors did hundreds of years ago..

I can't believe the ignorance of some people..

Your country is the exact same as mine (Australia). We're all settlers (except for the Aboriginals) from Britain. We changed the language and the culture. I doubt we ever asked them if they gave a shit.



Thats completely beside the point here. That was a whole different time, and era, I was born and raised in the US, so to me its home, and its my country. I can't be blamed for what my anscestors did. I can't claim some European country because thats were my ancestors are from. My ancestors were from multiple countries thats what America is made of. I agree with you on my ancestors invading this country, they came from England and all over Europe, however I don't believe it was illegal at the time as this land was not claimed. Yes there were Indians here, but it wasn't even a known territory to anyone else, yes it was wrong and it has left the Indian population almost non-existant, but that is something totally different as to what is happening now.

Now we have laws in place, we have established culture and a way of life. But these illegal immigrants exploit our system and we end up paying for it, via taxes, to support illegal families that cannot support themselves.

So are you telling me that even though you are a so called "settler" you wouldn't be mad if the same was happening to your country? you wouldn't be upset if illegal people tried to come into your country and change your way of life? I think you would. Two wrongs don't make a right. So watch who you call ignorant, you dumb ass hypocrite.


Hold on!! Religion is one thing, and to be absolutely honest what difference does it make which God (or other) you believe in? At the end of the day, regardless of race, colour, religion etc, we are still HUMAN Yes, the so called superior race, yet we squabble about poxy things like religion, or who forced non-whites to be slaves for longer.

What a load of utter bollocks. We either live in harmony, or we might as well forget it altogether.
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