UK young to do 3 months free work or lose benefits

[ThereIsBearCüm]

That's art, not design

Not all degrees have to lead to a job. And what's wrong with art?

Why would you want to get a degree if you know it won't lead to a job? I know there are exceptions, but to me it's a huge risk. Specially if you take a loan to get that degree.

Because knowledge is a good thing.
And a job isn't the only way of making a living (no, not including benefits).

Knowledge is definitely a good thing but it won't feed you and neither would it put shelter over you.

That could be true of any degree. It's how you apply the knowledge. Just because someone does a "throwaway degree" doesn't mean they're unemployable.

[Est83]

I've thought about going to college recently, just for my own personal knowledge, not to get a job or anything. But obviously that would be expensive, and not worth it most likely.

The Tory's privatised alot of our social institutions last time round, and now they're in power now there's even talk of privatising the police force "because the promise of profit will encourage higher achievment" It'll be like the 1800's again, security in rich areas only, increased crime in poorer areas.

Fee's for higher education in Britain have now trippled thanks to those Tory's (not at every university, but they're all slowly following suit). I would have loved the option later in life, like you, to study something extra out of nothing other than curiosity and continuing a philosophy of personal growth and constant learning... that's been dashed out the window now.

It's fine people having this tough love philosophy, but voting in Conservative governments that have historically done nothing to aid social mobolity and have forever favoured the upper middle class, is going a step to far. Their version of tough love is putting their foot on a blind kid's neck and telling him "Come on! No-one's gonna help you in life. Get up and hit me!"

They created the dependency on benefits that we see so much of today, yet the Labor party get the criticisms for trying to reform the benefit system and make it fairer (which obviously didn't work).

[Git]

I work in a challenging behaviour residential home. I have seen people employed straight out of school or with little/no qualifications. I have seen people leave within a single shift because they can't handle the hard work.

[elkanofan]

No feeling of "anti-climax" here. And for the most part, i do understand, i just don't really care, i feel genuine empathy in some situations and thats it. If you lived my life in my shoes, you would feel the same way. In fact if anyone lived my life in my shoes, they would probably be dead.

I think living for 60-70 years on the street with no family, no money and no clothes in a third world country is the very toughest you cant get, poverty in England is luxury compared to that. Living for 2-3 years on the street is tough, try 50!

In Jamaica, i remember leaving this church in Portmore, Kingston, there was a homeless guy, looked about 50-60 talking to the minister.

he wasn't just homeless, he had no clothes, literally no clothes whatsoever, he just walked around butt naked.

Not to mention the homeless elderly or those living in shacks in S-Corner.

I have the pictures I took from there, the amount of R.I.P 1987-2005 I saw in graffiti! People begging, kids begging for 20 dollars to buy coco bread from juicy patties.

Or you have India, or Africa with people being butchered by shady rebel alliances. watching your parents being murdered.

Do you think you could live through that? The best way to understand poverty is to actually go there and see it.

You have no idea what i am talking about and i really have no desire to explain it.

Sorry, but you have lost so much respect from me after this post, I don't say this to everyone but I mean, is there a ignore function on this forum, because I think this is the very last post I've ever going to read from you.

If you take this selfish attitude, I'm just not going to bother anymore, trying to have a nice friendly discussion.

[elkanofan]

Yeah, so? Your point is? Of course not everyone who applies will get a job, doesn't mean Git profited off someone just because he managed to get a job.
And it has nothing to do with system. If you're persistence, more often that not it works out. Luck plays a part in it, but if you're not persistent, you won't end up anywhere. That's the harsh truth.

jay, i don't disagree.

My point is different, it's everything to do with the system, but not in the way you say.

I'm not attacking Git, he's done very well which is what i said, i just disagree with people making excuses for a corrupt system.

I'm saying the system by design is so someone will ALWAYS miss out, not everyone can make it in the city which is plain unfair, because I know it doesn't have to be this way, i know there's a job or a role for every single last human on this planet.

That's the big picture.

The smaller picture, your right, it's harsh its tough but you have to rise above the incompetence become strong minded and apply and get to where you need to be. That's the immediate future.

But in the long run. I will change this world so everyone can be involved, I will change this world so it's not ruled by fear, instead, we have genuine proper communities who help eachover as a priority rather than compete all the time.

[elkanofan]

Thank you.

I've thought about going to college recently, just for my own personal knowledge, not to get a job or anything. But obviously that would be expensive, and not worth it most likely.

The Tory's privatised alot of our social institutions last time round, and now they're in power now there's even talk of privatising the police force "because the promise of profit will encourage higher achievment" It'll be like the 1800's again, security in rich areas only, increased crime in poorer areas.

Fee's for higher education in Britain have now trippled thanks to those Tory's (not at every university, but they're all slowly following suit). I would have loved the option later in life, like you, to study something extra out of nothing other than curiosity and continuing a philosophy of personal growth and constant learning... that's been dashed out the window now.

It's fine people having this tough love philosophy, but voting in Conservative governments that have historically done nothing to aid social mobolity and have forever favoured the upper middle class, is going a step to far. Their version of tough love is putting their foot on a blind kid's neck and telling him "Come on! No-one's gonna help you in life. Get up and hit me!"

They created the dependency on benefits that we see so much of today, yet the Labor party get the criticisms for trying to reform the benefit system and make it fairer (which obviously didn't work).

the best way forward is for us to lead by example.

We need to show the world and the cities how we can live in a sustainable harmonic society for all. In the video I posted, people have already put forward many very good, easily workable plans, what the next step is to actually create a community somewhere to put it into practice.

Most people in the world are followers and do just follow orders from those they believe are superior.

I am nothing without everyone else around me on this planet.

[ThereIsBearCüm]

That's art, not design

Not all degrees have to lead to a job. And what's wrong with art?

Why would you want to get a degree if you know it won't lead to a job? I know there are exceptions, but to me it's a huge risk. Specially if you take a loan to get that degree.

Because knowledge is a good thing.
And a job isn't the only way of making a living (no, not including benefits).

Knowledge is definitely a good thing but it won't feed you and neither would it put shelter over you.

That could be true of any degree. It's how you apply the knowledge. Just because someone does a "throwaway degree" doesn't mean they're unemployable.

If someone goes to college with a knowledge that he/she won't be employable (degree that won't lead to a job), they're making a foolish mistake, just how it is. Nothing wrong in having knowledge, but getting a degree knowing you will have a tough time finding a job is stupidity.

I know someone who got a Arts Journalism masters and now has a 60K loan. She's been living off her credit card for almost a year now and she regrets everyday why she made that decision.

Which degrees lead to jobs can change in a very very short amount of time. I'm currently in my final year of an architecture degree, and there are next to no jobs going in Australia, and even fewer in my home city. It's looking like I'm going to have to go to somewhere like Dubai if I want to make a living. When I started the degree (5 years ago), 90% of graduates from my course had employment lined up before they graduated.
I'm actually pretty much living off my girlfriend at the moment, who did a "throwaway degree" (visual arts... even did honours).

[GunnGunn]

No feeling of "anti-climax" here. And for the most part, i do understand, i just don't really care, i feel genuine empathy in some situations and thats it. If you lived my life in my shoes, you would feel the same way. In fact if anyone lived my life in my shoes, they would probably be dead.

I think living for 60-70 years on the street with no family, no money and no clothes in a third world country is the very toughest you cant get, poverty in England is luxury compared to that. Living for 2-3 years on the street is tough, try 50!

In Jamaica, i remember leaving this church in Portmore, Kingston, there was a homeless guy, looked about 50-60 talking to the minister.

he wasn't just homeless, he had no clothes, literally no clothes whatsoever, he just walked around butt naked.

Not to mention the homeless elderly or those living in shacks in S-Corner.

I have the pictures I took from there, the amount of R.I.P 1987-2005 I saw in graffiti! People begging, kids begging for 20 dollars to buy coco bread from juicy patties.

Or you have India, or Africa with people being butchered by shady rebel alliances. watching your parents being murdered.

Do you think you could live through that? The best way to understand poverty is to actually go there and see it.

You have no idea what i am talking about and i really have no desire to explain it.

Sorry, but you have lost so much respect from me after this post, I don't say this to everyone but I mean, is there a ignore function on this forum, because I think this is the very last post I've ever going to read from you.

If you take this selfish attitude, I'm just not going to bother anymore, trying to have a nice friendly discussion.

You were trying to have a nice friendly discussion and yet you tried to say i have had an easy life because i haven't been in abject poverty? Better yet you assumed that i haven't even seen it.

I never said i have lived a life of poverty anyway, i said if you have lived my life in my shoes you would probably be dead. And seeing as i have no desire to air that on a public forum, i won't.

You can put me on your ignore list if you want.

Oh and as a last comment in this thread, just because i said that i look after me and my own, doesn't mean i am selfish.

[Est83]

Great news guys, if you ever wanna slag GG off, jsut come to this thread. He's not coming here again so there's no chance he'll see it!

[Younggooner08]

He'll be back.

I am currently on JSA and have been for 2 months now, I am also in the age bracket that could be sent on one of these placements. I understand peoples concerns for the jobs that these people will be doing because it is highly likely the government will do there best to fit them into a role that would cost more than the money they get. On the flip side, you will get people more than capable of doing the work turning up to the job (more than likely late) and doing a half assed job because they don't want to be there.

It is not going to be a case of sending people with disabilities, mental or physical, and not just the obvious ones, i have a friend that struggles with anger issues (should probably be in prison right now) and also a friend a bad back. Both claim JSA but are, what i consider, partially disabled limiting the work they can do and sending them into work placements would not help them, they need so much more help than that. People like myself, and younger, can benefit from this. I have been working most of the time in various jobs since leaving school at 16 and any chance of work i jump at, unfortunately my younger brother, 19 has not found a job since leaving school and it is these people that need a little help.

That's me done, im not getting into immigrants stealing our jobs!

[Reverend Gooner]

I am not against this if these jobs are specifically made for these free workers and benefit the public. I am against it and do consider it "forced labour" if you are sent to do a job which would otherwise pay a hell of a lot more. I am certainly against it if these jobs are private sector jobs as it is the public who pay the wages, not private companies and if private companies can get free work that is taking jobs off the table from those who wish to work in an already harsh environment.

[UFGN]

In the film, Shawshank Redemption, the corrupt prison Warden, Samuel Norton, created the Inside Out programme. A noble public-spireted initiative designed to help prisoners gain work experience while giveing back to the community. In reality it was designed purely to create an opportunity for Norton to take brown envolopes from just about everyone involved. Companies paid him cash so that his slave labour prisoners would carry out cut-price construction work etc for them. And commercial companies who were being threatened by Norton's rock bottom quotes paid him cash to not bid against them on certain projects.

We now have a perfectly comparrible situation. Government officials will be able to send large amounts of workers, all of them being paid nothing, all of them vulnerable to exploitation because of their situation, to companies who need not offer them a paid job at all and who stand to gain a commercial advantage over their competitors who dont have the free man hours at their disposal. The scope for abuse and corruption is huge. The scope for anything good coming out of it for the job seaker is very limited.

[TheCharlieGeorgeist]

Dear goodness. Work for a wage. Is that really so controversial? If you don't wan to work, don't do it. Just stay home. No one is forcing you to take the job and the money.

[Est83]

I am not against this if these jobs are specifically made for these free workers and benefit the public. I am against it and do consider it "forced labour" if you are sent to do a job which would otherwise pay a hell of a lot more. I am certainly against it if these jobs are private sector jobs as it is the public who pay the wages, not private companies and if private companies can get free work that is taking jobs off the table from those who wish to work in an already harsh environment.

In the film, Shawshank Redemption, the corrupt prison Warden, Samuel Norton, created the Inside Out programme. A noble public-spireted initiative designed to help prisoners gain work experience while giveing back to the community. In reality it was designed purely to create an opportunity for Norton to take brown envolopes from just about everyone involved. Companies paid him cash so that his slave labour prisoners would carry out cut-price construction work etc for them. And commercial companies who were being threatened by Norton's rock bottom quotes paid him cash to not bid against them on certain projects.

We now have a perfectly comparrible situation. Government officials will be able to send large amounts of workers, all of them being paid nothing, all of them vulnerable to exploitation because of their situation, to companies who need not offer them a paid job at all and who stand to gain a commercial advantage over their competitors who dont have the free man hours at their disposal. The scope for abuse and corruption is huge. The scope for anything good coming out of it for the job seaker is very limited.

This and this.

[Özilfan]

If you do a good days work you should get a good day's pay. If you want youth to work for your private companies pay 'em minimum wage.

Absolute scandal this.