Obama puts hice voice behind same sex marriage

[StLGooner]

I think Obama being the President kind of proves the Gov't doesn't favour one particular religion doesn't it?

I mean, I'm not certain of his actual religion b/c some people say he's Moslem but reports say he visited a Christian church every week with his Grandma growing up

Obama is only one person, it doesn't prove anything. There are many more congressman, and Governors and Mayors that do bring religion into the mix. The Govt has done a fair job of keeping it out as a whole, but it is just getting more scary with so many politicians citing religious beliefs in their speeches now, and so many speaking out about the how wrong so many thing are just because the bible says so. To me if you live your life from the bible, or Torah, or Quran, you have issues, especially the ones that take things literally.

[UFGN]

(Leody)

Marriage is NOTHING to do with any particular religion! If it was then non-religeous ceremonies wouldnt exist would they? I presume you have those in the US... In the UK you can get married in all sorts of places nowadays and also write your own vows.

Marriage is a public declaration of partnership. Of course religeon has historricly played a big part in marriage of people who are religeous. Thats been the case since before Christ allegedly existed. People who believe in god want god to legitimise their parnership. Fine.

But its got sod all to do with the Church if two individuals, straight or gay, want to get married outside of its self-presumed duristiction.

[ThereIsBearCüm]

The constitution only says that the government will not establish a religion. Like the crown used to in England. That is all.

People read that many different ways. Some think it means the government can't have anything to do with any religion or even say the word god. Others think it only means that they can't throw you in jail for not being Christian.

And to the whole the church doesn't own marriage thing... To play devil's advocate. Why not? What is marriage other than a religious institution?

Other than a silly song and dance and a man in a funny outfit standing at the front of a room marriage is no different than two people just deciding one day they want to spend their lives together. Why do I have to go through that in order for me and my partner to get a tax break?

That's why if you ask me, the whole tax breaks for the married thing is unconstitutional in my opinion. How is doing a religious act being rewarded by the government not establish a religion?

For a start, marriage (or a similar concept) existed before any of the current religions did.
Also, people of any or no religious faith can be married, and this ceremony can be performed by people of any or no faith.

[ThereIsBearCüm]

It would be interesting to know if those against gay marriage also support making it illegal to eat shellfish.

[TRA Dial Square]

I think Obama being the President kind of proves the Gov't doesn't favour one particular religion doesn't it?

I mean, I'm not certain of his actual religion b/c some people say he's Moslem but reports say he visited a Christian church every week with his Grandma growing up

Obama is only one person, it doesn't prove anything.

Yes, he is only one person... But in case it has slipped your mind lol, he is the person. The Commander-in-Chief, the main guy, the President of the country.

He's not just 'a congressman' or 'a senator' - I do get where you're coming from though but I highly doubt he'd have been voted in if the majority looked at Religion above all you know?

[Leody]

(Leody)

Marriage is NOTHING to do with any particular religion! If it was then non-religeous ceremonies wouldnt exist would they? I presume you have those in the US... In the UK you can get married in all sorts of places nowadays and also write your own vows.

Marriage is a public declaration of partnership. Of course religeon has historricly played a big part in marriage of people who are religeous. Thats been the case since before Christ allegedly existed. People who believe in god want god to legitimise their parnership. Fine.

But its got sod all to do with the Church if two individuals, straight or gay, want to get married outside of its self-presumed duristiction.

We do have non-religious unions, but they're called a civil union, not a marriage. Symantics, but that's important to some. Most people here see marriage as a religious institution, and are against gay marriage because of that, not because they hate gay people. The liberals like to call them hateful because it gets people fired up on their side. But I've met lots of people like me who live their life how they want and how they think is best, and really don't give a shit how other people live their's. And that's the problem with many people, they think everybody needs to live their life like they live.

And like I've said, this wouldn't even be an issue at all had the government years ago hadn't decided to be control freaks and push people into marriage with tax breaks. Because then gay people could go do what they wanted with whatever church or whatever they wanted or just not if they didn't want to or whatever.

More people need to just mind their own business, the world would be a better place.

For the record, I don't have anything against gay marriage, unions or whatever else you want to call it, makes no difference to me. They should have all the rights and recognition any other marriage does. Insurance, health decisions and all that other stuff. I don't really care.

[Leody]

It means that the Govt cannot favor any religion, and anything that is funded by the Govt is not suppose to have any religious sayings, beliefs, prayers, or anything associated with it. Like prayer in public schools. That is illegal.

That's one way to interpret it.

The statement in the constitution is ambiguous.

As you probably know, I'm atheist. But atheist who are on a crusade againt any religion kind bug me. Who cares if the pledge says god and your kid has to say it at school? Or the money has god on it? If you don't believe it what's it hurt if you say the words? I've said it hundreds of times, hasn't changed my feelings on the subject.

[StLGooner]

They are hateful, if they don't want gay marriage because the bible says so, like you just said, and the bible says this

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13

That is f***ing hatred, no matter how you want to spin it.

[Leody]

Is it still hateful if they don't want it to be called marriage, but would have no problem with it being called something else but still have all same rights and benefits?

I don't think it is.

And that's what I hear from most people against it in Ohio.

[UFGN]

Im absoluely amazed the US doesnt have non religeous marriages. I just presumed that was a given to be honest. Its not even taboo in any way to get married outside of the Church in the UK. You just go to your local authority and get a license, make a booking at the local registory office, and thats it.

[StLGooner]

The point is is that it is stemmed from hatred. I realize not all religious people hold the same beliefs, in fact there are churches that accept gay people and there are religious people who support gay marriage, but I would call them hypocrites, and those are the type that just cherry pick the parts of the bible they want to believe and the parts they don't they just ignore. Well to me that isn't being true to your religion, if you're going to believe if that shit, believe in it and live it to the fullest, like the West Borough Baptist Church. Now those f***ers are crazy, and I'm glad not every religious person is like them, but at least they live there beliefs and take the bible literally.

[StLGooner]

Im absoluely amazed the US doesnt have non religeous marriages. I just presumed that was a given to be honest. Its not even taboo in any way to get married outside of the Church in the UK. You just go to your local authority and get a license, make a booking at the local registory office, and thats it.

We do have non religious marriages. You can go to the courthouse and get married. Hell I got married at a bed and breakfast, nobody called it a civil union, and I don't call it that either. If you fill out an application for something, it doesn't give you an option for civil union, it just says "married".

[Leody]

Im absoluely amazed the US doesnt have non religeous marriages. I just presumed that was a given to be honest. Its not even taboo in any way to get married outside of the Church in the UK. You just go to your local authority and get a license, make a booking at the local registory office, and thats it.

Did you not understand what I said...

We do.

[UFGN]

Oh ok. I thought it sounded odd

[Leody]

What it all really boils down to is just a silly word more than anything else.

Religious people have a problem with gay couples getting "married", but most don't take issue with them being couples. Gay people want all the rights and benefits that come with being "married" and I completely understand that. One of them gets sick or injured and the other can't even visit them in the hospital because they're not "family", or they can't get health insurance for the other's employer because they're not the "spouse".

Who gives a shit about the damn word? The religious want the word married, fine, let them keep it. Gay people want the rights and recognition that comes with marriage, fine, let them have it. Let's just find the happy "middle ground", call it "gay partnership" or something, everybody get along now and move on please.

Some religious freaks would probably still have a problem and some gay people probably would have a problem with not having it called marriage, but I think that would be more than enough to get the laws passed in just about every state.