The Y-Word

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Re: The Y-Word

Postby Libertine » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:13 pm

Dejan wrote:I think the same as in holland, the ajax fans call themselves the jews of amsterdam but they dont mind.


Funnily enough, Ajax fans started using the star of david symbol because they were embarrassed about the way that the amsterdam public gave up the jews so easily when the nazi's rolled into town.
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Re: The Y-Word

Postby UFGN » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:26 pm

ARSHENAL wrote:So by that logic it would be fine to seperate the horrific acts of the slave trade and use the N word to casualy insult people at a football match? Also the spuds wear it as a badge of pride any way, doesn't even wind them up,.


The two scinarios are not comparable because there has never been a football club that has used the N word to casually describe itself.

Incidentally in answer to your question in a more general context, i think people do need to get over themselves a bit when it comes to race and other similar issues. People who choose to be offended by the use of words when they know offence was no intended are usually arseholes, so i dont really care. I am gay and i get the piss taken all the time at work and with friends etc... but its just joking about and i dont mind. I dont go on about the pursicution of homosexuals or the thousands of people who were gassed by the nazis because they were gay. It wasnt only Jews.....
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Re: The Y-Word

Postby StLGooner » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:24 am

Inchpractice wrote:
ARSHENAL wrote:
ChVint22 wrote:If I'm honest, I don't really see how it can be offensive to someone. Didn't it come from the word Yiddish, which is the jewish language? So to shorten it to ***, I mean really, how bad can that really offend someone? I can understand the N word, because that originally meant "lazy", or something along those lines. But *** doesn't really mean anything.


People also say that about the shortening of the world Pakistani but the fact is that it has become such an offensive word because of the way it has been used in a derogatory manner. In this case the Y word has very strong conotations to the Nazi persecution and is now unaceptable just as the shorthand of Pakistani now also is because of its widespread use in an offensive way.

Exactly, it's nothing to do with the literal meaning of these words it's the years of vile abuse that's been associated with them.

You can't really compare any of these offensive words with being called a yank either because it's an anti-American word and America is not an ethnic minority.
I'm not saying it's therefore impossible for you to be offended but how hurt can you be when someone is insulting 300m people who more or less control the planet?
If you get angry you have an entire nation who'll jump at the chance to back you up, whereas if you're the only Muslim, ***, Asian in school it's an entirely different matter.



Yank really wasn't used to compare the two Inch, it was more used to show that its just a word, and to ask how offended can someone really be by a word. Its not really the word that offends, its the context in which someone uses it, and the emotion that is put with it when being used that offends people. And to be honest, I never heard of *** being used as a derogatory word for jews until I joined this forum. I've heard of other names for jews, but never that one.

And like you say, when someone says yank, they are insulting 300 million people, therefore, its really not that personal of an attack because they're talking about a whole nation. Same thing goes for they Y word, except, its a whole race. Point being, when insults get personal they hurt more. I'd rather someone call me a yank, or cracker, than someone say "hey you bald, stone cold steve austin lookalike snaggled tooth f**k". If you are proud of who you are, then why should a slang word desribing you be insulting if you're so proud about it? Its like when people over here call gays "fags". If you're proud to be gay, whats the big deal? I'd gladly let the gay community come up with a derogatory word for straight people.

I guess my whole point is, hatred is always going to be in the world, we'll never get rid of it, but if we can ignore the pettiness of a few slang words, then we'd be better off imo. The more we raise the issue about petty things, the more problems we seem to have and the more hate is brewed. People always seem to be so sensitive about race issues, they tip toe around it, becasue they don't want to offend anyone. They're so worried about being politely correct, that I think its actually hurting the issue. I use to live with a black family, and we talked about race alot, and made jokes about, and welcomed it. Its funny when a black comedian makes fun of the white race, and vice versa, because we are a bit different (all races), and thats the beatuy of it, but instead of hating our differences, lets all laugh at them. I ain't pretending to have the answer to end racism, but whatever is being done about it ain't working, its making it worse imo.
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Re: The Y-Word

Postby Inchpräctice » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:45 am

UFGN wrote:I just wish people who actually object to us calling the Yids Yids could seperate these two things:

A) The pursicution of an entire race of people over many centuries, colmunating in their mass slaughter at the hands of evil scum during the second world war, in what was the worst crime in human history

and

B) Winding up a few thousand half brained Spud lovers at a football match.


But how can you separate them when it's the same word being used?
If you use the word *** at a football match any jewish people there are not thinking 'Why bring up the holocaust now?'
It's more about their own experiences in life, being verbally/physically abused at school, getting bullied at work etc.

You may as well approach a black person and say 'When I called you a nigger just then I wasn't talking about years of slavery and segregation I just meant that you're a nigger, surely you can't be offended by that?'


Libertine wrote:
ARSHENAL wrote:Also the spuds wear it as a badge of pride any way, doesn't even wind them up,.


So if no-one is being offended, where's the offence? :think:


Who said no-one is being offended? :dizzy:
As the campaigners rightly point out, it's offensive to use the word at all and the fact that the scum fans are singing it themselves doesn't somehow make it alright. A tiny minority of scum fans are actually jewish so what right do the non-jewish fans (majority) have to call themselves yids?

There are loads of Muslims living in Southall. If there was a Southall FC how do you think the locals would feel if the largely white fans started chanting 'We are Al Qaeda' just because the stadium happened to be in a Muslim area (not that Tottenham is a jewish area)?
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Re: The Y-Word

Postby Inchpräctice » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:55 am

UFGN wrote:
ARSHENAL wrote:So by that logic it would be fine to seperate the horrific acts of the slave trade and use the N word to casualy insult people at a football match? Also the spuds wear it as a badge of pride any way, doesn't even wind them up,.


The two scinarios are not comparable because there has never been a football club that has used the N word to casually describe itself.

Incidentally in answer to your question in a more general context, i think people do need to get over themselves a bit when it comes to race and other similar issues. People who choose to be offended by the use of words when they know offence was no intended are usually arseholes, so i dont really care. I am gay and i get the piss taken all the time at work and with friends etc... but its just joking about and i dont mind. I dont go on about the pursicution of homosexuals or the thousands of people who were gassed by the nazis because they were gay. It wasnt only Jews.....

Fair point but if you had a season ticket at the Emirates and the fans around you repeatedly sung anti-gay songs every single week how long would you put up with that for? Sure, you would know that they weren't aggressively aiming it at you personally but it wouldn't feel the same as the odd bit of banter at work by people who you've got to know quite well.

And as I said above the offended party here is not complaining that the word *** reminds them of the holocaust, only that like nigger it's a derogatory term that shouldn't be allowed to become the norm. It's not about World War 2 it's about NOT using the same terminology that the BNP would use.

Imo the mistake that's been made here is that the jewish community have put up with it for too long and are now raising it at a time when it's so ingrained into football culture. In some ways it's like locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.
They're too patient. They should've brought this up as soon as the very first anti-racism campaign was started by the FA or any club.
Or better still, the moment it started.
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Re: The Y-Word

Postby Zedie » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:44 pm

Libertine wrote:
ARSHENAL wrote:Also the spuds wear it as a badge of pride any way, doesn't even wind them up,.


So if no-one is being offended, where's the offence? :think:


Your ribbing your Spud aquintance at work and your casually throwing around the phrase '***' while on a 'light hearted' wind up, but the Jewish guy sitting next to you might not find it as amusing or acceptable?

Only one example, but can probably be replicated over loads of other situations. Just like my experience on the train, the England fans and Scottish fans could be engaging in some light hearted banter, but it probably wouldnt be seen as such to the other people around them.

Not all Spuds think the phrase is ok and im assuming the vast majority of Jewish people not associated to the club would think its not cool.
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