American Politics

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Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:12 pm

StLGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
StLGooner wrote:No, it's the media that's all negative. I know plenty of lefty's/democrats. None of them are anywhere near what the right claims them to be. The media makes sure that the loudest voices are heard. Which represent a very small portion of each side. So in turn, simple minded people think everyone on the left is this way and everyone on the right is that way, and they couldn't be more wrong.

For instance, I know many liberals with guns. And I've never heard one liberal that was for illegal immigration. However if you speak with a righty, they'll tell you that all libs don't care about illegal immigration. When in reality, it's just that they don't want a wall. But as said, the loudest most idiotic person on each side is what will be portrayed and then remembered, then we paint everyone with the same brush. Yes, mostly Libs are for gay rights, but the media keeps acting like its a constant issue, and I barely hear anyone talk about it anymore. But if you constantly watch the biased media outlets, you'll think that it's still an issue.


And yea, because Repubs have never been violent or threatened anyone ever. :rolleyes:

Instead they just run over people at rally's, support the KKK, usually are up for a war.

See how I'm making sweeping generalizations? It's great isn't it!! It just makes it so easy so I don't have to actually think, and instead one stroke of my biased brush and I'm finished.


I would add though that this guy Pat Rice is literally sucking up the Right Wing press, literally is demonising the left, literally is denying the nose on his face re gay rights and literally is an ex soldier who's up for more war!!



You know me, I try to be fair. I just hate bad arguments really. But there are libs that do the same thing he's doing. Which like I said is a small majority. That's why I hate these arguments. The real issues get lost and we end up in a pissing contest, pointing the finger of blame at each other. I would ask people to stay off social media and don't watch the news for a week. Actually talk with someone with a different view point than you and you'll see that you actually aren't that much different in your views overall. But when we let the media portray what the minority think, we sip the kool aid and believe it, then get emotional and ignorant toward each other. Then all hope of a proper discussion is lost.


I think talking in real life with people of opposing views is as you say rewarding and enlightening

For example, im a liberal and centre left, yes? So youd expect me to be liberal on prison sentencing right? (by British standards, you lot are bonkers putting smalltime crooks away for decades)

....Well actually I'm not. I support long prison sentences and tough but fair prison conditions. I think parole should be earned, not simply given. I support stricter community sentences including unpaid community work

But I strongly support proper legal aid for defendants, which has been chipped away at for years. I strongly support wiping prisoners criminal records in most cases as soon as they are released to help them get back into work more easily. I dont think its reasonable for prisoners to have to live with mice and cockroaches

I support stop and search if used fairly. I support the use of emergency curfews. However I dont support ASBOs and the like because they are only approved by a magistrate, not a proper judge.

I hate the government’s powers to snoop on peoples communications, but wouldn't have an issue with it if a crown court warrant was required.

You see? My views on criminal justice are complex and multi layered, and just being a "liberal" doesn't really cover it



I totally agree. And to be fair, there are repubs that are the same. I know some that don't support our rights for guns, and very many that support LBGT community.

I hate to label myself as lib or conservative, because of these type of issues, but its not a secret that I lean more left for sure. But I hate political correctness, and the whole participation trophy culture. Again though, if you listen to the media or the far right, you would think and start to believe that all Libs do. I doubt it's even the majority to be honest.



Yep.

If I could give another example re political correctness.... christmas decorations / lights / trees

The right wing MSM, and by extension people who suck up their crap, will often parrot some story about xyz school or xyz local council not having Christmas lights because they offend Muslims

Then you end up with a weird sequence of events which is the actual truth.... Muslims aren't offended by Christmas lights.......they are however offended that they were characterised as being offended by Christmas lights......and actually the reason there aren't any lights is the council couldn't afford them!!
Last edited by UFGN on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:14 pm

StLGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
StLGooner wrote:No, it's the media that's all negative. I know plenty of lefty's/democrats. None of them are anywhere near what the right claims them to be. The media makes sure that the loudest voices are heard. Which represent a very small portion of each side. So in turn, simple minded people think everyone on the left is this way and everyone on the right is that way, and they couldn't be more wrong.

For instance, I know many liberals with guns. And I've never heard one liberal that was for illegal immigration. However if you speak with a righty, they'll tell you that all libs don't care about illegal immigration. When in reality, it's just that they don't want a wall. But as said, the loudest most idiotic person on each side is what will be portrayed and then remembered, then we paint everyone with the same brush. Yes, mostly Libs are for gay rights, but the media keeps acting like its a constant issue, and I barely hear anyone talk about it anymore. But if you constantly watch the biased media outlets, you'll think that it's still an issue.


And yea, because Repubs have never been violent or threatened anyone ever. :rolleyes:

Instead they just run over people at rally's, support the KKK, usually are up for a war.

See how I'm making sweeping generalizations? It's great isn't it!! It just makes it so easy so I don't have to actually think, and instead one stroke of my biased brush and I'm finished.


I would add though that this guy Pat Rice is literally sucking up the Right Wing press, literally is demonising the left, literally is denying the nose on his face re gay rights and literally is an ex soldier who's up for more war!!



You know me, I try to be fair. I just hate bad arguments really. But there are libs that do the same thing he's doing. Which like I said is a small majority. That's why I hate these arguments. The real issues get lost and we end up in a pissing contest, pointing the finger of blame at each other. I would ask people to stay off social media and don't watch the news for a week. Actually talk with someone with a different view point than you and you'll see that you actually aren't that much different in your views overall. But when we let the media portray what the minority think, we sip the kool aid and believe it, then get emotional and ignorant toward each other. Then all hope of a proper discussion is lost.


I think talking in real life with people of opposing views is as you say rewarding and enlightening

For example, im a liberal and centre left, yes? So youd expect me to be liberal on prison sentencing right? (by British standards, you lot are bonkers putting smalltime crooks away for decades)

....Well actually I'm not. I support long prison sentences and tough but fair prison conditions. I think parole should be earned, not simply given. I support stricter community sentences including unpaid community work

But I strongly support proper legal aid for defendants, which has been chipped away at for years. I strongly support wiping prisoners criminal records in most cases as soon as they are released to help them get back into work more easily. I dont think its reasonable for prisoners to have to live with mice and cockroaches

I support stop and search if used fairly. I support the use of emergency curfews. However I dont support ASBOs and the like because they are only approved by a magistrate, not a proper judge.

I hate the government’s powers to snoop on peoples communications, but wouldn't have an issue with it if a crown court warrant was required.

You see? My views on criminal justice are complex and multi layered, and just being a "liberal" doesn't really cover it



I totally agree. And to be fair, there are repubs that are the same. I know some that don't support our rights for guns, and very many that support LBGT community.

I hate to label myself as lib or conservative, because of these type of issues, but its not a secret that I lean more left for sure. But I hate political correctness, and the whole participation trophy culture. Again though, if you listen to the media or the far right, you would think and start to believe that all Libs do. I doubt it's even the majority to be honest.


Agree, especially with the PC culture. One thing in particular I take issue with is the fat acceptance culture. People can be chubby chasers, that's their preference after all. But I'll be damned if you're gonna try to get me to buy into that nonsense and bang/marry a heffer.

I've made no illusions that I'm not left leaning (center-left). Yet I can't f***ing stand some of the shit some right-wingers try to pin on the entire left.

- I'm nothing close to a socialist. I welcome the benefits of a mixed economy compared to a fully capitalist one or a fully socialist one.
- I'm for gun control (not gun ban). Our country loves to hunt, for example. Hell, I love hunting when I get the chance.
- I'm for the death penalty (as long as the standards become stricter).
- I don't agree that college is the end-all-be-all. Some people would do better at a trade school or jumping right into the work force after high school.
- I don't give a f**k about the WaR oN cHrIsTmAs.

And likewise, I have right-wing friends who would love socialized healthcare and are for increased immigration.

(I'll respond to you, Pat Rice, later today when I have more time.)
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Re: American Politics

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:53 pm

LMAO wrote:Booker drops out.


About time.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:10 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
LMAO wrote:But yeah, I think what we're seeing with the right lashing out are its death throes. The younger generations (Millennials and Gen Z) are overwhelmingly and undeniably left of center because of all the right wing lies we've seen and had to put up with growing up. And in 20 years, we're going to see a massive shift left.

For now though, I'm just counting down the days until Texas finally turns blue. Maybe that'll finally be the day Republicans wake up and shift left from their current positions.


The younger generation since the 1960's have always been overwhelmingly and undeniably left of centre, they simply grow out of believing in Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny and Socialism ... for those of us old enough we've heard "in 20 years, we're going to see a massive shift left" every decade for sixty years and yet if anything the world is more capitalist right wing than ever.

There needs to be decent opposition, but "more radical" is not the answer either in the UK as Corbyn just found out or in the US when you stupidly re-elect Trump in 2020 - not because he's no longer an Orange Buffoon but because the left simply can't muster a decent alternative, seriously how bad must you be when you can't beat Boris and Trump?

If some people paid attention rather than howling at the moon Boris has already made some fairly dramatic left turn promises for the Tories, the proof will be in actions not words but just maybe the Tories are going to move into that enormous vacuum now at the centre of UK politics ... if they do Labour has nowhere to go despite the younger generations (Millennials and Gen Z) being overwhelmingly and undeniably left of centre, you can't win an election with children ... and you never will.


The oldest Millennials turn 39 this year.


Don't fall into the 'he I must not name' trap of thinking everyone is a far right fascist unless they are a member of momentum and extinction rebellion ... I would happily support a centre left party which got rid of nationalisation, collective bargaining and a promise of a 32 hour week with 40 hour pay as policies ... not that I necessarily disagree with those goals but they are something you work towards by building consensus not try and impose on an electorate who simply don't believe it can be done.

People turn from socialists into capitalist because that's how most people's life works, you start with everything free, go through a phase of paying your own way, then have to support yourself and the next batch of freeloaders (the kids) it's natural to have your values reflect these changes. What should happen is that from an early age you not only get used to paying your own way but also to supporting everyone else ... not by blocking streets and shouting loudly, and not by handing over hard earned cash, but by doing things like unpaid social work, picking up litter, planting trees real actions in a real world, not just liking the latest clever tweet on social media ...

If you can educate young people into democratic socialism - making money from capitalism to support social programmes - that would be far better than indoctrinating them in radical socialism only to have them abandon it all as they grow old. Better some good than no good at all who knows eventually true socialism could evolve but you have to start small.

Only my opinion which is worth bugger all I know ... but having watched the world become more and more radical every decade you know without compromise there's only one way that will end up. Kaboom


@Pat Rice, this is a reply to you too so I don't have to quote you and basically say the same thing.

People getting more conservative as they age isn't a universal law. It seems to be one of those statements parroted enough that people start to believe it.

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Full article: https://www.people-press.org/2018/03/01 ... -politics/

Take note of Baby Boomers in '94, Gen X in '04, and Millennials in '17 since the middle of the generations are about early to mid 30s then (and it's the best 1:1 comparisons we have).

Millennials are 52% liberal (first gen that has cracked the 50% barrier in either direction), Gen X was 36% at a similar age, and Baby Boomers were 22%.

Since 2004, Gen X has gone from 36% liberal and 14% conservative to 43% liberal and 23% conservative.

Since 1994, Baby Boomers have gone from 22% liberal and 29% conservative to 39% liberal and 32% conservative.

So if anything, the data suggests generations become more liberal as they grow older ;)

And Gen Z will be more liberal than Millennials.

Also, when I say we (i.e., America since I can't speak for the UK, although I'd expect a similar trend) are going to take a massive shift left in 20 years, I'm not saying it's going to become a (far-)left world where socialism is king and capitalists are sent to death camps. I'm saying the world is currently teetering on being far-right, and that from 2040 to at least 2070, we're going to settle on a happy center-left medium.

And last thing, us younger generations aren't in favor of "radical socialism" like older generations and the right at large portray us as being. Most of us are center-left, in favor of a greater mixed economy than what we currently have, and what would be considered more left-leaning social democrats (since social democrats can also be center-right). Think of a slightly more left Scandinavia.


The most significant statistic is the middle ground where people take distinct political sides.

Younger people are far more influenced by media and peer pressure than older folks. We have the advantage of seeing results over decades rather than a few years thus tend not to base opinions on emotion, peer pressure, blogs vs our own reality.

Re: The the paragraph in the article you posted about racial effects on black success. Why do you think that more younger folks believe that racism is a factor in whatever measure of success or failure? My take is that younger change the world youth as I was in the day are greatly influenced by what they read and hear. By any measure minorities are far better off than in anytime in our history...yet what is the message from condescending white liberals and race baiters like Sharpton is that every deck is stacked against them. While in reality Black and Hispanic support for Trump is triple what it was in 2016. How many actual racists do you know? How many Klan members exist in 2020? About 2000 max while thirty years ago it was about 20,000. Yet we are told daily that half the country are white supremacists and the younger generations tend to eat it up. The shit I hear from my nephew in university about how crazy many of his fellow students get over this is amazing yet is understandable to me. It was sort of the same in 1975 minus social media.

Most of Bernie's support is made up of younger voters, yet his message for decades has been and remains hardcore socialism and even communism. If you look up his older interviews and speeches his support for totalitarian systems such as in Cuba and Nicaragua you might be quite shocked. AOC's talking points are right out of the Democratic Socialists of America website. Last time I looked a couple years back they were so far left that they demanded an end to profit, confiscation of private business and nationalization of whole industries. So if the younger generation is not about radical socialism then I would suggest that they are not very well informed.

A mixed or productive economy is what Trump is achieving. A service based economy which fails to manufacture anything cannot survive. What is strange to me in 2020 is that nearly everything Trump proposes echoes those of the Dems just a few years ago. That is why they are failing, they have abandoned most reason and thus the union and minority vote has shifted to Trump.

Could I ask where you live in the US? Also thank you for reasonable discussions.


You keep saying black support for Trump has tripled, but I’m telling you it hasn’t. If it has, then why hasn’t Trump’s approval rating drastically changed? If his support from the black community has tripled, then his approval rating wouldn’t be the same as it was three years ago. And more importantly, there’d be a hell of lot more than 7% of black people who said they’d vote for him in 2020. I’ll say it once more: the claim that black support for Trump has tripled in three years is a myth. As a partial member of the black community, I can assure you the GOP lost the black vote in the 1960s, and it’s not coming back any time soon.

As for half the country being white supremacists, of course not everyone on the right is. That's always been as dumb a proposition as the right saying half the country is nothing but loony leftist snowflakes. But it says a lot that all white supremacists seem to exclusively favor one party, and that perception heavily damages the reputation of the GOP in the eyes of younger people, who make up the most socially liberal generations in our country's history.

I've mentioned Millennials are the first generation that's broken the 50% barrier in either direction (identifying as liberal or conservative), which means the middle isn't going to matter as much going forward. In 2020, Millennials and Gen Z are expected to make up 37.6% of the electorate, whereas the Greatest Generation, the Silent Generation, and Boomers will make up 37.8% (Gen X is still roughly 50-50 in their voting habits, so they're a wash which is why I didn't include them, but for numbers' sake, they'll make up 24.6% of the electorate). By 2032, Millennials and Gen Z will make up the majority of voters. Also by 2024, Millennials will be the largest voting bloc in America. This is why we're seeing a lot more progressive candidates running for president.

The previous paragraph sets up the point I'm about to make. I'm emphasizing this because this is the most important part that the GOP isn't properly acknowledging: Instead of outright dismissing younger generations as rabid socialists and liberal snowflakes who will eventually grow up and stop thinking foolishly, maybe it’d better serve the right to figure out why the GOP has lost at least two generations of voters.

Reince Priebus even noted as much back in 2013: "Young voters are increasingly rolling their eyes at what the party represents and many minorities think Republicans don't like them or don't want them in our country. When someone rolls their eyes at us they aren't likely to open their ears to us." I mean, the GOP can continue to dismiss our grievances and ignore us, but it's doing so at its own peril.

And last thing, when you say socialism, what do you mean socialism to be? Also democratic socialism? And social democracy? Because there is a huuuuuge disconnect between our generations on these terms. AOC has even come out and said as much: "So when Millennials talk about concepts like democratic socialism, we're not talking about these kinds of 'Red Scare' boogeyman. We're talking about countries and systems that already exist that have already been proven to be successful in the modern world."
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:56 am

UFGN wrote:Yep.

If I could give another example re political correctness.... christmas decorations / lights / trees

The right wing MSM, and by extension people who suck up their crap, will often parrot some story about xyz school or xyz local council not having Christmas lights because they offend Muslims

Then you end up with a weird sequence of events which is the actual truth.... Muslims aren't offended by Christmas lights.......they are however offended that they were characterised as being offended by Christmas lights......and actually the reason there aren't any lights is the council couldn't afford them!!


That's been happening since the very beginning and people of colour have actually been learning to copy this behaviour since.

Think back to the 90's, when did we ever hear anything like this? never.

Then all of a sudden, and I'm sure this was one of the first ones to come out ................

"We shouldn't be singing Ba Ba Black sheep in schools as its offensive"

.......... said no one of colour ever.

Some White teacher or Councillor named Jeff came out with that whatever the agenda who know's but what I do know is I actually find it more offensive that he would think black people would be so petty as to associate themselves with a sheep.

............... that remark was the catalyst and its been all tumbling down hill ever since, now, everyone is the victim, everyone is offended, its fkin childish and I refuse to take part.

I have more self respect.

I remember back in the 60's when they had real problems to moan about, like not being allowed on parts of the bus, or having to use separate facilities, or not being allowed to vote, segregated schools ........... what are people moaning about now? not enough women winning Entertainment awards than men??

1st world problems.
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Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:23 pm

Nancy Pelosi

Shes clearly very intelligent and experienced but she just seems too old. Shes clearly struggling to deliver her speach.

The US seems to be rather topheavy with very old people in leadership positions, including Congress, Presidential candidates and Supreme Court Justices
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:55 pm

UFGN wrote:Nancy Pelosi

Shes clearly very intelligent and experienced but she just seems too old. Shes clearly struggling to deliver her speach.

The US seems to be rather topheavy with very old people in leadership positions, including Congress, Presidential candidates and Supreme Court Justices



.............. that's because the young people are too radical and are trying to actually change things.

The old guard know this puppet show works only by working along with the corruption that funds them.

You've got half of these youngsters slagging off the FED and Wall street yet when you look at who funds the two main parties .......... gets kinda awkward.

I saw this programme where one young Dem candidate who was becoming popular and looked like he could win in his county got a phone call from a Dem senior telling him they'd rather he didn't run and they were going to back someone else, when he pushed back they literally told him he had to learn how the game was played lol.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:15 am

You keep saying black support for Trump has tripled, but I’m telling you it hasn’t. If it has, then why hasn’t Trump’s approval rating drastically changed? If his support from the black community has tripled, then his approval rating wouldn’t be the same as it was three years ago. And more importantly, there’d be a hell of lot more than 7% of black people who said they’d vote for him in 2020. I’ll say it once more: the claim that black support for Trump has tripled in three years is a myth. As a partial member of the black community, I can assure you the GOP lost the black vote in the 1960s, and it’s not coming back any time soon.

As for half the country being white supremacists, of course not everyone on the right is. That's always been as dumb a proposition as the right saying half the country is nothing but loony leftist snowflakes. But it says a lot that all white supremacists seem to exclusively favor one party, and that perception heavily damages the reputation of the GOP in the eyes of younger people, who make up the most socially liberal generations in our country's history.

I've mentioned Millennials are the first generation that's broken the 50% barrier in either direction (identifying as liberal or conservative), which means the middle isn't going to matter as much going forward. In 2020, Millennials and Gen Z are expected to make up 37.6% of the electorate, whereas the Greatest Generation, the Silent Generation, and Boomers will make up 37.8% (Gen X is still roughly 50-50 in their voting habits, so they're a wash which is why I didn't include them, but for numbers' sake, they'll make up 24.6% of the electorate). By 2032, Millennials and Gen Z will make up the majority of voters. Also by 2024, Millennials will be the largest voting bloc in America. This is why we're seeing a lot more progressive candidates running for president.

The previous paragraph sets up the point I'm about to make. I'm emphasizing this because this is the most important part that the GOP isn't properly acknowledging: Instead of outright dismissing younger generations as rabid socialists and liberal snowflakes who will eventually grow up and stop thinking foolishly, maybe it’d better serve the right to figure out why the GOP has lost at least two generations of voters.

Reince Priebus even noted as much back in 2013: "Young voters are increasingly rolling their eyes at what the party represents and many minorities think Republicans don't like them or don't want them in our country. When someone rolls their eyes at us they aren't likely to open their ears to us." I mean, the GOP can continue to dismiss our grievances and ignore us, but it's doing so at its own peril.

And last thing, when you say socialism, what do you mean socialism to be? Also democratic socialism? And social democracy? Because there is a huuuuuge disconnect between our generations on these terms. AOC has even come out and said as much: "So when Millennials talk about concepts like democratic socialism, we're not talking about these kinds of 'Red Scare' boogeyman. We're talking about countries and systems that already exist that have already been proven to be successful in the modern world."

Rasmussen who came the closest to calling the Trump win in 2016 has a daily tracking poll which has Trump at the same approval as Obama at the same period, and support by black voters at 25% and as high as 34%. It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... ack_voters

I have suggested you look at the DSA website. They have actually taken down their platform which as of a couple years ago did indeed call for the elimination of profit, capitalism, called for free education, free just about everything. At least the Seattle chapter has kept some of that online. BTW, they continually call themselves socialists.

https://seattledsa.org/platform/

AOC supports hard core socialism as does Bernie. That much is very clear. Note the last line in this article. Then ask yourself what Democratic Socialism really stands for. AOC's "ideas" come straight from the socialist/Anarchist playbook...nothing original on her part. If American youth are fooled by them shame on them.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... paign.html

This is the Bernie the kids seem not to know. Those of us who were politically aware prior to 1980 remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2d3DMC6qyg
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:27 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:Yep.

If I could give another example re political correctness.... christmas decorations / lights / trees

The right wing MSM, and by extension people who suck up their crap, will often parrot some story about xyz school or xyz local council not having Christmas lights because they offend Muslims

Then you end up with a weird sequence of events which is the actual truth.... Muslims aren't offended by Christmas lights.......they are however offended that they were characterised as being offended by Christmas lights......and actually the reason there aren't any lights is the council couldn't afford them!!


That's been happening since the very beginning and people of colour have actually been learning to copy this behaviour since.

Think back to the 90's, when did we ever hear anything like this? never.

Then all of a sudden, and I'm sure this was one of the first ones to come out ................

"We shouldn't be singing Ba Ba Black sheep in schools as its offensive"

.......... said no one of colour ever.

Some White teacher or Councillor named Jeff came out with that whatever the agenda who know's but what I do know is I actually find it more offensive that he would think black people would be so petty as to associate themselves with a sheep.

............... that remark was the catalyst and its been all tumbling down hill ever since, now, everyone is the victim, everyone is offended, its fkin childish and I refuse to take part.

I have more self respect.

I remember back in the 60's when they had real problems to moan about, like not being allowed on parts of the bus, or having to use separate facilities, or not being allowed to vote, segregated schools ........... what are people moaning about now? not enough women winning Entertainment awards than men??

1st world problems.


To take your post to its logical end, those "in on a white horse" liberals who are self appointed "caretakers" of minorities are a most condescending bunch of creeps who are more about their own feel good than self awareness.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:08 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Rasmussen who came the closest to calling the Trump win in 2016 has a daily tracking poll which has Trump at the same approval as Obama at the same period, and support by black voters at 25% and as high as 34%. It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... ack_voters


https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling ... trump.aspx
"But it appears very unlikely there will be a sudden breakthrough by which Trump gains a substantially higher percentage of the black vote than he got in 2016. Black Americans' approval of the job Trump is doing as president remains low, and the stability of these ratings since Trump took office suggests a low probability that the pattern will be significantly disrupted. The history of consistently low black voting for GOP candidates over the past four decades also underscores the structural challenge any Republican candidate faces in attempting to increase their black vote share."


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46468 ... ocrat-over
"An overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same."


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.


This is the exact dismissive attitude for our grievances I warned you about. Instead of outright dismissing younger generations as rabid socialists and liberal snowflakes who will eventually grow up and stop thinking foolishly, maybe it’d better serve the right to figure out why the GOP has lost at least two generations of voters.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:I have suggested you look at the DSA website. They have actually taken down their platform which as of a couple years ago did indeed call for the elimination of profit, capitalism, called for free education, free just about everything. At least the Seattle chapter has kept some of that online. BTW, they continually call themselves socialists.

https://seattledsa.org/platform/


Yeah...you're going to have a hard time convincing Millennials and Gen Z to disagree with most of that platform. The contentious points that wouldn't get majority agreement would be anti-capitalism and total freedom to migrate, but the rest is pretty spot on tbh


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:AOC supports hard core socialism as does Bernie. That much is very clear. Note the last line in this article. Then ask yourself what Democratic Socialism really stands for. AOC's "ideas" come straight from the socialist/Anarchist playbook...nothing original on her part. If American youth are fooled by them shame on them.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... paign.html


Still not seeing any supporting evidence for AOC or Bernie being hardcore socialists.

Also, Trump supporters acquit Trump of being racist even though white supremacists support him and are in his campaign, so it's hypocritical for you to have different standards for Bernie.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:This is the Bernie the kids seem not to know. Those of us who were politically aware prior to 1980 remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2d3DMC6qyg


At 10:31, Bernie literally says, "There are strengths to your system, there are strengths to our system. Our goal is to take the strengths of both systems." Doesn't sound very anti-capitalist, über mega socialist to me.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:55 pm

LMAO wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Rasmussen who came the closest to calling the Trump win in 2016 has a daily tracking poll which has Trump at the same approval as Obama at the same period, and support by black voters at 25% and as high as 34%. It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... ack_voters


https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling ... trump.aspx
"But it appears very unlikely there will be a sudden breakthrough by which Trump gains a substantially higher percentage of the black vote than he got in 2016. Black Americans' approval of the job Trump is doing as president remains low, and the stability of these ratings since Trump took office suggests a low probability that the pattern will be significantly disrupted. The history of consistently low black voting for GOP candidates over the past four decades also underscores the structural challenge any Republican candidate faces in attempting to increase their black vote share."


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46468 ... ocrat-over
"An overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same."


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.


This is the exact dismissive attitude for our grievances I warned you about. Instead of outright dismissing younger generations as rabid socialists and liberal snowflakes who will eventually grow up and stop thinking foolishly, maybe it’d better serve the right to figure out why the GOP has lost at least two generations of voters.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:I have suggested you look at the DSA website. They have actually taken down their platform which as of a couple years ago did indeed call for the elimination of profit, capitalism, called for free education, free just about everything. At least the Seattle chapter has kept some of that online. BTW, they continually call themselves socialists.

https://seattledsa.org/platform/


Yeah...you're going to have a hard time convincing Millennials and Gen Z to disagree with most of that platform. The contentious points that wouldn't get majority agreement would be anti-capitalism and total freedom to migrate, but the rest is pretty spot on tbh


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:AOC supports hard core socialism as does Bernie. That much is very clear. Note the last line in this article. Then ask yourself what Democratic Socialism really stands for. AOC's "ideas" come straight from the socialist/Anarchist playbook...nothing original on her part. If American youth are fooled by them shame on them.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... paign.html


Still not seeing any supporting evidence for AOC or Bernie being hardcore socialists.

Also, Trump supporters acquit Trump of being racist even though white supremacists support him and are in his campaign, so it's hypocritical for you to have different standards for Bernie.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:This is the Bernie the kids seem not to know. Those of us who were politically aware prior to 1980 remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2d3DMC6qyg


At 10:31, Bernie literally says, "There are strengths to your system, there are strengths to our system. Our goal is to take the strengths of both systems." Doesn't sound very anti-capitalist, über mega socialist to me.


You have made my points for me in truth.

Older folks have always been dismissive of youthful ignorance. It's generational and usually very valid. The thing is, younger folks don't figure that out until they assume the role of elders.

As I stated, your generation may not see Bernie as a socialist even when it is right there for your consumption. Seriously, the man honeymooned in the USSR, supports totalitarian governments (as recently as last year was a vocal supporter of Maduro FFS), says he is a socialist, heads the DSA which is a communist/Anarchist organization and AOC is right there babbling about the same issues that DSA is. Had you not noticed that Bernie and she are Democrats in name only ?
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Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:22 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
LMAO wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Rasmussen who came the closest to calling the Trump win in 2016 has a daily tracking poll which has Trump at the same approval as Obama at the same period, and support by black voters at 25% and as high as 34%. It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... ack_voters


https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling ... trump.aspx
"But it appears very unlikely there will be a sudden breakthrough by which Trump gains a substantially higher percentage of the black vote than he got in 2016. Black Americans' approval of the job Trump is doing as president remains low, and the stability of these ratings since Trump took office suggests a low probability that the pattern will be significantly disrupted. The history of consistently low black voting for GOP candidates over the past four decades also underscores the structural challenge any Republican candidate faces in attempting to increase their black vote share."


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46468 ... ocrat-over
"An overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same."


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.


This is the exact dismissive attitude for our grievances I warned you about. Instead of outright dismissing younger generations as rabid socialists and liberal snowflakes who will eventually grow up and stop thinking foolishly, maybe it’d better serve the right to figure out why the GOP has lost at least two generations of voters.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:I have suggested you look at the DSA website. They have actually taken down their platform which as of a couple years ago did indeed call for the elimination of profit, capitalism, called for free education, free just about everything. At least the Seattle chapter has kept some of that online. BTW, they continually call themselves socialists.

https://seattledsa.org/platform/


Yeah...you're going to have a hard time convincing Millennials and Gen Z to disagree with most of that platform. The contentious points that wouldn't get majority agreement would be anti-capitalism and total freedom to migrate, but the rest is pretty spot on tbh


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:AOC supports hard core socialism as does Bernie. That much is very clear. Note the last line in this article. Then ask yourself what Democratic Socialism really stands for. AOC's "ideas" come straight from the socialist/Anarchist playbook...nothing original on her part. If American youth are fooled by them shame on them.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... paign.html


Still not seeing any supporting evidence for AOC or Bernie being hardcore socialists.

Also, Trump supporters acquit Trump of being racist even though white supremacists support him and are in his campaign, so it's hypocritical for you to have different standards for Bernie.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:This is the Bernie the kids seem not to know. Those of us who were politically aware prior to 1980 remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2d3DMC6qyg


At 10:31, Bernie literally says, "There are strengths to your system, there are strengths to our system. Our goal is to take the strengths of both systems." Doesn't sound very anti-capitalist, über mega socialist to me.


You have made my points for me in truth.

Older folks have always been dismissive of youthful ignorance. It's generational and usually very valid. The thing is, younger folks don't figure that out until they assume the role of elders.

As I stated, your generation may not see Bernie as a socialist even when it is right there for your consumption. Seriously, the man honeymooned in the USSR, supports totalitarian governments (as recently as last year was a vocal supporter of Maduro FFS), says he is a socialist, heads the DSA which is a communist/Anarchist organization and AOC is right there babbling about the same issues that DSA is. Had you not noticed that Bernie and she are Democrats in name only ?


Pure arrogance

Hes given you three bites of the cherry to row back on it but you just keep poking the fire

Your generation are hated by young people. I see it every day. Hated. They are struggling to get by, struggling to afford to find somewhere to live and a decent job, and all you can do is laugh in their face and call them stupid.

You can snipe back at me if it makes you feel better, but its attitudes like yours that have caused it.
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:34 pm

UFGN wrote:Pure arrogance

Hes given you three bites of the cherry to row back on it but you just keep poking the fire

Your generation are hated by young people. I see it every day. Hated. They are struggling to get by, struggling to afford to find somewhere to live and a decent job, and all you can do is laugh in their face and call them stupid.

You can snipe back at me if it makes you feel better, but its attitudes like yours that have caused it.


The property accusation is a tough one.

In the UK at least there are a number of drivers for this and its not generational.

No one back in the day who bought a flat for 50k likes the fact that its now costing 220k for a similar flat .......... unless your in the property game, but for residentials it isn't.

Yes your flat maybe worth 4x as much now .......... but that's what it now costs to buy those sh*t holes up the road as well so you can't move up the ladder so to speak, you can however become mortgage free so that's the only benefit of it.

Flats in Stoke Newington where I grew up, same sh*t pokey flats in a block which were council estates and home to criminals are now fetching anything up to £500k, half a mil for a flat on an estate ........... are you fkin mad!

That there is upper middle class and rich parents buying their kids "trendy" area flats, its not trendy, that's just what the Estate agents tell you to get you to buy, my hats are off to London Estate Agents, they're having a field day........... holding crowd viewings with closed bids lol fkin genius and very cruel at the same time, they don't do that where I'm from, what a loop hole.

The other reason is population due to migration and native growth, more demand, higher prices, simple.

When I bought my place I saw it coming, two weeks after I bought mine the property market went nuts, things that were sitting on the market I'd veiwed for 6 months were flying off the shelves.

I got lucky tbf, my property went up 10k by the time I made an offer to the time I completed.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:11 am

UFGN wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
LMAO wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Rasmussen who came the closest to calling the Trump win in 2016 has a daily tracking poll which has Trump at the same approval as Obama at the same period, and support by black voters at 25% and as high as 34%. It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... ack_voters


https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling ... trump.aspx
"But it appears very unlikely there will be a sudden breakthrough by which Trump gains a substantially higher percentage of the black vote than he got in 2016. Black Americans' approval of the job Trump is doing as president remains low, and the stability of these ratings since Trump took office suggests a low probability that the pattern will be significantly disrupted. The history of consistently low black voting for GOP candidates over the past four decades also underscores the structural challenge any Republican candidate faces in attempting to increase their black vote share."


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46468 ... ocrat-over
"An overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump.

The survey, which was released on Monday, found this sentiment to be particularly true among black voters along partisan lines.

Ninety-eight percent of black voters who identify as Democrat, and 72 percent of those who identify as independent said they would back whoever ultimately becomes the Democratic nominee over Trump. Just 12 percent of black voters who identify as Republican said the same."


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:It also has an interesting poll of younger voters who are willing to vote for socialism. They will learn.


This is the exact dismissive attitude for our grievances I warned you about. Instead of outright dismissing younger generations as rabid socialists and liberal snowflakes who will eventually grow up and stop thinking foolishly, maybe it’d better serve the right to figure out why the GOP has lost at least two generations of voters.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:I have suggested you look at the DSA website. They have actually taken down their platform which as of a couple years ago did indeed call for the elimination of profit, capitalism, called for free education, free just about everything. At least the Seattle chapter has kept some of that online. BTW, they continually call themselves socialists.

https://seattledsa.org/platform/


Yeah...you're going to have a hard time convincing Millennials and Gen Z to disagree with most of that platform. The contentious points that wouldn't get majority agreement would be anti-capitalism and total freedom to migrate, but the rest is pretty spot on tbh


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:AOC supports hard core socialism as does Bernie. That much is very clear. Note the last line in this article. Then ask yourself what Democratic Socialism really stands for. AOC's "ideas" come straight from the socialist/Anarchist playbook...nothing original on her part. If American youth are fooled by them shame on them.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... paign.html


Still not seeing any supporting evidence for AOC or Bernie being hardcore socialists.

Also, Trump supporters acquit Trump of being racist even though white supremacists support him and are in his campaign, so it's hypocritical for you to have different standards for Bernie.


Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:This is the Bernie the kids seem not to know. Those of us who were politically aware prior to 1980 remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2d3DMC6qyg


At 10:31, Bernie literally says, "There are strengths to your system, there are strengths to our system. Our goal is to take the strengths of both systems." Doesn't sound very anti-capitalist, über mega socialist to me.


You have made my points for me in truth.

Older folks have always been dismissive of youthful ignorance. It's generational and usually very valid. The thing is, younger folks don't figure that out until they assume the role of elders.

As I stated, your generation may not see Bernie as a socialist even when it is right there for your consumption. Seriously, the man honeymooned in the USSR, supports totalitarian governments (as recently as last year was a vocal supporter of Maduro FFS), says he is a socialist, heads the DSA which is a communist/Anarchist organization and AOC is right there babbling about the same issues that DSA is. Had you not noticed that Bernie and she are Democrats in name only ?


Pure arrogance

Hes given you three bites of the cherry to row back on it but you just keep poking the fire

Your generation are hated by young people. I see it every day. Hated. They are struggling to get by, struggling to afford to find somewhere to live and a decent job, and all you can do is laugh in their face and call them stupid.

You can snipe back at me if it makes you feel better, but its attitudes like yours that have caused it.


I'll leave the sniping to you mate. I shall stick to the reality. Yes, every generation has such divides. I said nothing that would reflect arrogance, simply a sociological reality that spans all generations and most cultures.

Who have I called stupid or laughed at? That is not my style nor intent ever. What I have said is that the older you get the more facts, evidence and experience with which to form opinions. A very common lesson we all learn is that there is no free lunch in life and expecting an easy life with everything handed to you on a platter, no "discrimination" , no bad people to challenge your thinking will cost you dearly in the end in so many ways. That utopian dream comes down with a resounding thud every time, every generation. Because human nature is ingrained in our souls and reality has this weird habit of smacking you right in the chops.

Perhaps blaming previous generations for the state one's own affairs CAN be valid (but often lacking in character but always lacking in solutions) , but conversely so should they be thanked for leaving the world a better, safer, more prosperous place than they leave it, a world where opportunity abounds ...which should be the goal after all.

Try to get approval to build a home in the UK. Good luck. Now try to fit 300k new immigrants each year into a very restricted housing market. Now do some maths and estimate how many jobs in the UK went to Polish or Ukrainian workers and what effect that has on wages.

Your hate is on you. Hate sucks. I hope you find a way to open your heart and mind to other points of view and even borrow from some when they make sense logically.
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What would Eboue do? Fall off the stretcher.
What would Auba do? Just f***ing score.
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Re: American Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:21 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:Pure arrogance

Hes given you three bites of the cherry to row back on it but you just keep poking the fire

Your generation are hated by young people. I see it every day. Hated. They are struggling to get by, struggling to afford to find somewhere to live and a decent job, and all you can do is laugh in their face and call them stupid.

You can snipe back at me if it makes you feel better, but its attitudes like yours that have caused it.


The property accusation is a tough one.

In the UK at least there are a number of drivers for this and its not generational.

No one back in the day who bought a flat for 50k likes the fact that its now costing 220k for a similar flat .......... unless your in the property game, but for residentials it isn't.

Yes your flat maybe worth 4x as much now .......... but that's what it now costs to buy those sh*t holes up the road as well so you can't move up the ladder so to speak, you can however become mortgage free so that's the only benefit of it.

Flats in Stoke Newington where I grew up, same sh*t pokey flats in a block which were council estates and home to criminals are now fetching anything up to £500k, half a mil for a flat on an estate ........... are you fkin mad!

That there is upper middle class and rich parents buying their kids "trendy" area flats, its not trendy, that's just what the Estate agents tell you to get you to buy, my hats are off to London Estate Agents, they're having a field day........... holding crowd viewings with closed bids lol fkin genius and very cruel at the same time, they don't do that where I'm from, what a loop hole.

The other reason is population due to migration and native growth, more demand, higher prices, simple.

When I bought my place I saw it coming, two weeks after I bought mine the property market went nuts, things that were sitting on the market I'd veiwed for 6 months were flying off the shelves.

I got lucky tbf, my property went up 10k by the time I made an offer to the time I completed.


You and I are both from areas which have seen acid-trip price rises in the last 30 years.

Stoke Newington Church Street..... f***ing crackers what people pay to live there now. The punch line is, no matter how you spin it youre still a short walk from what is still one of the most dangerous parts of London

I grew up all over North London but mainly near Crouch End. Back then you had middle class, poor, students, hippies, working class, everyone living there. Now, £1.8M for a house. Jesus wept.

And obviously the rent is a joke as well.

I own my place now but it aint in Crouch End and I'll never be able to afford to live where I grew up ever again.

I'll turn 40 this year, but it pisses me off seeing the ignorance that younger people are facing from older generations who are completely out of touch with how hard it is to find somewhere decent and affordable. Thats decent AND affordable..... both.
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