American Politics

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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:30 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:You kind of moved the goal post a bit with it all. This isn't just about police brutality, we are still cleaning up our racial issues from since this nation was birthed. And right now, it seems to be going backwards instead of making progress.


So this is what the rest of us outside of America don't get.

What issues does a black middle class kid born in America today suffer that's different from anyone else?

This victim mentality is trying to overcome natural biases you find everywhere in the world.

Leave poor people out of the convo because a poor black man in Chicago is no more disadvantaged as the Indian guy living in a village in Bangladesh, yet they will always complain, crime, lack of opportunities is no different than any slum in Brazil or Jamaica.

Tbh I find America's obsession with race disturbing, the rest of the world finds bringing up skin colour every 2 secs as rude.

So back to my original question, what does the normal black kid's obstacles differ from the Asian kid who works his nuts off, gets grades I could only dream about and ends up being a Dr?

Because what I'm getting from this is that certain African Americans are and always have been p*ssed about elite whitey sending his kid to the top schools, getting the best jobs, etc etc ............ well what about the Jews in America who do that? etc are you seriously expecting people to not privilege their own offspring?

Go live in Saudi and tell the Arabs not to pass their wealth and opportunities onto their kids and see the fat middle finger you get, that's like me going to China and thinking I can climb the ladder quicker than families who have roots going back 1,000's of years, news flash, you either earn it or inherit it ........... that is global not just in America, that is not WHITE Privilege, that is RICH privilege.

Now that's just my opinion / facts I see ......... now to my question, I'd be interested to get your view on it.


The issues for a young black kid in America is that they are born into a culture that looks at them with animosity, disgust, and for some probably as less of a human. They are looked at as criminals, and violent, and ignorant. They are racially profiled and discriminated against. Now am I meaning every black kid in America, or every white person is a racist? Of course not. But there is an underlying sense of looking down on minorities here, and I personally think that black people have it a tad worse than other minorities here in the US. Statistically it's harder for blacks to get jobs, to get accepted into prestigious schools, especially jobs that have authority or power.

Racism never went away in this country. It was just swept under the rug, and luckily the majority of society or at least the right people that control our society decided to give them equal rights, at least on paper anyway.

The fact that other people in different countries and cultures have it far worse has nothing to do with our issues here. I'm not stating that the average black American is the most mistreated on earth, I'm not trying to compare, so not sure where you're going with that, but that seems like an irrelevant point. It's almost like you're suggesting they have no right to protest or complain because there are other people that have it far worse in life than them, and that is obviously ridiculous. Also, to your point about passing your wealth and privilege off to your children. I don't think I ever stated anything about that or that families shouldn't do that, nor have I heard the black community say that either. If they complain about white privilege, I've always gathered that it's more to do with how society sees the white man and treats them, than anything about money or inheriting it. So again, I think you're missing my point, and whole point of protesting in general.

I don't pretend to have the answers to stop racism, I do however have an idea. Get rid of the word race. I believe by calling each other different names, our minds automatically think of each other as different. We are all human, we just have different skin pigmentations, and cultures. That's how we should look at each other in the future, and teach our kids to look at each other. It would probably take generations upon generations to change that in our society, but to me that would be a good way to try and help stop it all. Because as you know, kids aren't born racist. It's learned, it's learned from society and watching their parents, friends, peers, TV, news. In many ways we are taught what to think instead of how to think.
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Re: American Politics

Postby Yago » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:48 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Yago,

If your going to pitch in you still didn't answer my question ..........

"My question to StLgooner was I would like his opinion as an American on the disadvantage he feels African Americans have over lets say an Asian person?"

Your saying I'm brushing off race and your doing the opposite, making everything about race well the question I asked is based on that so ............ answer it.

The reference of the Bangladeshi guy in comparison was that he doesn't use race as a crutch the way African-Americans do, both poor, both mistreated by a ruling class, both exposed to violence, Bangladeshi families have their daughters snatched from their villages ffs and forced into prostitution or they're killed, being African-American does not make you a special case in 2017, I will give you that certain American police do seem to profile harder on Afro-Americans than maybe some other races but a lot of that is down to black gang and Hip-hop culture making cops paranoid, I suspect these same cops would be just as trigger happy pulling over a Latino with gang tattoos on his face?


I'm "making everything about race" because this whole discussion is a race issue. Kap's protest was against racial discrimination from the police (and the excessive violence coming with it), he wasn't protesting wealth inequality.

For an in depth read on the history of racism in America, from slavery to the struggles of that black middle class kid today, I'd recommend you read this article by Ta-Nehisi Coates. I don't really expect you to do so, since the article is quite confrontational and very long, but it really is a great read for someone interested in the subject.
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:09 pm

StLGooner wrote:The issues for a young black kid in America is that they are born into a culture that looks at them with animosity, disgust, and for some probably as less of a human. They are looked at as criminals, and violent, and ignorant. They are racially profiled and discriminated against. Now am I meaning every black kid in America, or every white person is a racist? Of course not. But there is an underlying sense of looking down on minorities here, and I personally think that black people have it a tad worse than other minorities here in the US. Statistically it's harder for blacks to get jobs, to get accepted into prestigious schools, especially jobs that have authority or power.


I don't believe that at all, maybe in middle america but certainly not the metropolitan parts.

Also if a black man is wearing a suit like Stephen A Smith, your honestly telling me they're looked at as criminals? you really have fallen for all the tropes haven't you? sucked right into that "They're victims" mentality.
People generalising black people as criminals is no different than when people generalised Italian Americans as being Mafia related.
If you throw the stereotypes out there some stick but any rational person will judge on meeting someone in person ......... as we all do.
Do you think it helps when so many African American youth promote the Gangster Rap look? would you hire a guy walking in your office in baggy pants and an attitude?
Do you think that old lady walking down the street wouldn't get nervous walking past a gang of kids wearing hoods and covered in tattoos?

White people look at these things so weirdly, your either too racist / biased or too apologetic, maybe that's the issue, I just can't relate, I'm mixed race, half white, half Arabic and I judge people as I see / meet them and that is all, maybe I have the benefit of being an international human being due to my background so I can only look at things from a neutral and personal stand point, I don't have any inherent biases that either make me hate or feel guilty about?

StLGooner wrote:Racism never went away in this country. It was just swept under the rug, and luckily the majority of society or at least the right people that control our society decided to give them equal rights, at least on paper anyway.


Racism never went away anywhere, Eastern Europe, Asia, parts of the Middle East are some of the most racist people I have ever met.
I know white people who tell racist jokes and make fun of black people, then next thing you know they are hanging around with black friends I know, happens everywhere.

StLGooner wrote:It's almost like you're suggesting they have no right to protest or complain because there are other people that have it far worse in life than them, and that is obviously ridiculous


But to other nationalities who just get on with their lives, they look like brats begging at the white mans table (which funnily enough is at least half controlled by Jews but whatever), Italian, Latino, Asian ....... get on with it, if a cop is racist all you can do is deal with that cop, stricter laws on policing, better training, more severe punishments for shooting a compliant unarmed citizen ....... not throwing tantrums on national television and upsetting people and inserting politics into sports entertainment.

StLGooner wrote:I don't pretend to have the answers to stop racism, I do however have an idea. Get rid of the word race. I believe by calling each other different names, our minds automatically think of each other as different. We are all human, we just have different skin pigmentations, and cultures. That's how we should look at each other in the future, and teach our kids to look at each other. It would probably take generations upon generations to change that in our society, but to me that would be a good way to try and help stop it all. Because as you know, kids aren't born racist. It's learned, it's learned from society and watching their parents, friends, peers, TV, news. In many ways we are taught what to think instead of how to think.


Nah, not going to work, if its not race it'll be culture, if its not culture it'll be nationality, if its not nationality it'll be religion, if its not religion it'll be area you are from etc etc etc

What will work is for people to be decent human beings who judge on merit, also it would help African Americans to also realise that they will be judged on merit, appearance, manors, the way you talk etc ........... just like the fkin rest of us on planet earth have to.

I do agree with you on race though, that's what I said earlier here in the UK we do not bring up colour in every discussion, its rude, there is however a lot of talk about religion and culture which is why I said your idea won't work.
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:34 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:The issues for a young black kid in America is that they are born into a culture that looks at them with animosity, disgust, and for some probably as less of a human. They are looked at as criminals, and violent, and ignorant. They are racially profiled and discriminated against. Now am I meaning every black kid in America, or every white person is a racist? Of course not. But there is an underlying sense of looking down on minorities here, and I personally think that black people have it a tad worse than other minorities here in the US. Statistically it's harder for blacks to get jobs, to get accepted into prestigious schools, especially jobs that have authority or power.


I don't believe that at all, maybe in middle america but certainly not the metropolitan parts.

Also if a black man is wearing a suit like Stephen A Smith, your honestly telling me they're looked at as criminals? you really have fallen for all the tropes haven't you? sucked right into that "They're victims" mentality.
People generalising black people as criminals is no different than when people generalised Italian Americans as being Mafia related.
If you throw the stereotypes out there some stick but any rational person will judge on meeting someone in person ......... as we all do.
Do you think it helps when so many African American youth promote the Gangster Rap look? would you hire a guy walking in your office in baggy pants and an attitude?
Do you think that old lady walking down the street wouldn't get nervous walking past a gang of kids wearing hoods and covered in tattoos?

White people look at these things so weirdly, your either too racist / biased or too apologetic, maybe that's the issue, I just can't relate, I'm mixed race, half white, half Arabic and I judge people as I see / meet them and that is all, maybe I have the benefit of being an international human being due to my background so I can only look at things from a neutral and personal stand point, I don't have any inherent biases that either make me hate or feel guilty about?

StLGooner wrote:Racism never went away in this country. It was just swept under the rug, and luckily the majority of society or at least the right people that control our society decided to give them equal rights, at least on paper anyway.


Racism never went away anywhere, Eastern Europe, Asia, parts of the Middle East are some of the most racist people I have ever met.
I know white people who tell racist jokes and make fun of black people, then next thing you know they are hanging around with black friends I know, happens everywhere.

StLGooner wrote:It's almost like you're suggesting they have no right to protest or complain because there are other people that have it far worse in life than them, and that is obviously ridiculous


But to other nationalities who just get on with their lives, they look like brats begging at the white mans table (which funnily enough is at least half controlled by Jews but whatever), Italian, Latino, Asian ....... get on with it, if a cop is racist all you can do is deal with that cop, stricter laws on policing, better training, more severe punishments for shooting a compliant unarmed citizen ....... not throwing tantrums on national television and upsetting people and inserting politics into sports entertainment.

StLGooner wrote:I don't pretend to have the answers to stop racism, I do however have an idea. Get rid of the word race. I believe by calling each other different names, our minds automatically think of each other as different. We are all human, we just have different skin pigmentations, and cultures. That's how we should look at each other in the future, and teach our kids to look at each other. It would probably take generations upon generations to change that in our society, but to me that would be a good way to try and help stop it all. Because as you know, kids aren't born racist. It's learned, it's learned from society and watching their parents, friends, peers, TV, news. In many ways we are taught what to think instead of how to think.


Nah, not going to work, if its not race it'll be culture, if its not culture it'll be nationality, if its not nationality it'll be religion, if its not religion it'll be area you are from etc etc etc

What will work is for people to be decent human beings who judge on merit, also it would help African Americans to also realise that they will be judged on merit, appearance, manors, the way you talk etc ........... just like the fkin rest of us on planet earth have to.

I do agree with you on race though, that's what I said earlier here in the UK we do not bring up colour in every discussion, its rude, there is however a lot of talk about religion and culture which is why I said your idea won't work.



DG its so hard to talk to you cause you literally take every point I make and totally twist it up and assume something so wrong. Seriously! I don't know if this is just the way your argue, or if you're really not getting this.

Yes, people do still assume a black man in a suit is a criminal. Again, not everybody, but some actually do. I hear it all the time. Yes, it is all about stereotypes, that's my whole point. You are acting like cause others get stereotyped too then it's not an issue, it is, this isn't hard to understand. It has nothing to do with playing the whole victim thing or whatever you keep spouting. Yes, are there some black folks that pull that victim card and whine and complain, of course, but we're talking about the everyday view of minorities in this country. I don't care if you don't believe what I'm saying, it's f***ing true, the proof is in the pudding. I'm the one that lives here and sees and hears it EVERY f***ing DAY!

Yes any rational person doesn't judge by looks or stereotypes, and that is the problem here, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THOSE TYPE OF RATIONAL PEOPLE. That is a part of the whole point you seem to be missing.


And obviously I know racism everywhere never went away, again, your comment about that is irrelevant in regards to the point I was making.


Wow! I would love for you to tell all the black folks here that have been discriminated against, or that have lost loved ones by innocently being shop by racist cops that they just need to get over it and suck It up, you really are a special kind of asshole for that. For real.


Ha! Of course you would say that wouldn't work, it's not your idea, but of course your idea would work right? That same idea that the already good people on earth have been trying for years. :lol: How is that working for us? I mean f**k we obviously know what is right and what is wrong about how to treat people, the whole point of this convo is to try and get the majority of people to actually act like that. You're just stating the obvious here, things that shouldn't even be mentioned.
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Re: American Politics

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:42 pm

Half Arab/Half White?

Come on DG, I seriously doubt anyone can tell you apart from a regular White person when stood together.

Anyway, as for this point about Asians and other countries, you shouldn't have voted for BREXIT since XYZ country is run by China and at least you have your own Parliament or something
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:04 am

First of all StLGooner I said cops who are racist are a problem, I've said it myself at least three times so why am I being an asshole?
When I say "get over it" I'm not talking about that particular situation, also it would help if some (not all) African Americans especially the ones dressed like their in a street gang were compliant and stopped mouthing off to nervous trigger happy cops who aren't properly trained, again take some responsibility for your actions, if it still happens like that poor bastard who was shot while trying to get his driving licence out of his dash then cops like that need to be given 20 years for murder.

Your first statement though ......... you expect me to believe that many white people in America are straight out racists?
That they would actually assume some black guy walking down the road in a suit or normal clothes is a criminal.

............. if that is true then America is more fked up than I ever thought it was, you may as well be Germany just before the war.

Tbh I know you live there but I can't believe its THAT bad, any other Americans here who want to second StLGooners sentiment?

Also don't get pissy because I said your fantasy idea of erasing race from the dictionary won't work, colour is a fact, its not going anywhere, difference is Americans are obsessed with it, the rest of the world isn't that shallow.

............ and these guys are supposed to be the leaders of the free world, sounds like your all going to hell in a hand basket the way you describe your own country.
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Re: American Politics

Postby LMAO » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:38 am

DiamondGooner wrote:any other Americans here who want to second StLGooners sentiment?


Obviously I can’t speak for every black person in America since not every experience is the same, but I can speak for myself as someone who is half-black and half-white. I was one of the most academically gifted kids in my town growing up all throughout elementary, middle, and high school, but that didn’t matter. This occurred in a middle class and upper class town in a liberal part of the country in the 2000s and 2010s, not some backwater shithole in Mississippi.

I had some teachers who doubted my academic abilities just because “there’s no way he (meaning me) should be able to keep up with the other students (i.e., the full-white kids).” When the time came to apply for colleges, I was told to not get my hopes up for elite schools (i.e., top 25 universities) because “they’re very difficult to be accepted to” and I should focus on less appealing colleges, even though I clearly had the credentials for the elite schools. Yes, it’s an innocent statement at first glance, but it was often said with racial undertones. Well, it just so happened that I was accepted into most of the elite schools I applied to, but instead of congratulations from some people, I was met with, “Oh really, you actually got in? *scoff* Good luck trying to keep up with the other students.” Was it affirmative action? Idk possibly, but just using the SAT, I scored in the 99th percentile with a 2280 (max was 2400), so it’s not like I was some pity admit. Academically, I was just as competitive as the white and Asian kids.

Now, just imagine how much harder it is for a black kid from the ghetto to be seen as a peer, compared to my situation as a half-white kid who grew up in a good neighborhood. They barely stand a chance, and it’s a travesty because there’s so much untapped potential being left to rot.

To answer your question of if black kids have it harder than Asian kids: I’ll have to say yes. Asians are the model minority here in America and have the highest household income of any racial group. It’s an uphill battle for opportunities for black people because they're always going to have to turn it up to 11, and even then, they'll have people doubting their abilities—not everyone obviously, but a fair amount. It’s because statistically, black people are the poorest racial group in America (yep, even worse than Native Americans who barely survived genocide), stemming from decades upon decades of societal oppression, leading to the stereotype that blacks are lazy, stupid, and criminals. The reality is black people as a whole don’t have the same opportunities as other races, with Native Americans as the only group that can lay claim to being worse off.

And to answer your other question of if it really is that bad here: Yup, it definitely can be. I have black friends from college who were constantly harassed by the police when they were growing up simply because they were walking in a group with their black friends, being normal kids and teens. Also your characterization of baggy pants is no longer representative of black people; most wear fitting clothes these days just like everyone else. And you overestimate what wearing a suit can do; an appalling amount of people would assume the person wearing a suit was coming from or going to a court case.

Now, is it all bad? No, there are plenty of Americans who look past color, but there's still a long way to go. But as you said, it's also partly a class issue; however, you're overstating the class portion. Kanye West said it best: "Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coupe."
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:47 am

Yeah your right there is still a stigma about a black guy in a nice car, but again if your wearing a vest and a gold chain Police do and will think "What does this guy do for a living to afford that car" because in their mind your either a rapper or a drug dealer.

Thing is AOL I've been through the same thing I grew up in an area of London which is considered rough and all my friends when I was young were black, well when I say friends we were more the "Local crew" and we used to get the odd stop and search and tbh we were what the police thought we were.
Wearing street type clothes and baseball caps, sometimes carrying things we shouldn't, and also the kids I was with would literally start running when a cop car creeps past even if they had nothing on them.

I'm older now, dress different etc and never get pulled, appearances are the first thing a cop judges on and when and if you are pulled a lot of what happens is down to your actions.
Especially if the cop is armed, do you be aggressive and non-compliant? or do you just politely ask why you've been stopped? in the end of the day its your life at risk.

Now I've seen some instances on the net where the cop literally should be thrown in jail, but they are the rarities if we're all honest, more should be done against those police to deter trigger happy cops especially ones with bias ........... but honestly I fail to see how having a media war between Trump and the NFL with a side result of pissing off the American public of achieving that, in fact over all this commotion I've heard next to zero about how to "tackle the issue".

Which is why I don't agree with the approach, you don't try to win a race by tying your feet together, that's the non-result I'm seeing here.
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Re: American Politics

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:48 am

DiamondGooner wrote:Yeah your right there is still a stigma about a black guy in a nice car, but again if your wearing a vest and a gold chain Police do and will think "What does this guy do for a living to afford that car" because in their mind your either a rapper or a drug dealer.

Thing is AOL I've been through the same thing I grew up in an area of London which is considered rough and all my friends when I was young were black, well when I say friends we were more the "Local crew" and we used to get the odd stop and search and tbh we were what the police thought we were.
Wearing street type clothes and baseball caps, sometimes carrying things we shouldn't, and also the kids I was with would literally start running when a cop car creeps past even if they had nothing on them.

I'm older now, dress different etc and never get pulled, appearances are the first thing a cop judges on and when and if you are pulled a lot of what happens is down to your actions.
Especially if the cop is armed, do you be aggressive and non-compliant? or do you just politely ask why you've been stopped? in the end of the day its your life at risk.

But that's the thing, right? You could change your appearance, a Black guy can't not be Black
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:08 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:First of all StLGooner I said cops who are racist are a problem, I've said it myself at least three times so why am I being an asshole?
When I say "get over it" I'm not talking about that particular situation, also it would help if some (not all) African Americans especially the ones dressed like their in a street gang were compliant and stopped mouthing off to nervous trigger happy cops who aren't properly trained, again take some responsibility for your actions, if it still happens like that poor bastard who was shot while trying to get his driving licence out of his dash then cops like that need to be given 20 years for murder.

Your first statement though ......... you expect me to believe that many white people in America are straight out racists?
That they would actually assume some black guy walking down the road in a suit or normal clothes is a criminal.

............. if that is true then America is more fked up than I ever thought it was, you may as well be Germany just before the war.

Tbh I know you live there but I can't believe its THAT bad, any other Americans here who want to second StLGooners sentiment?

Also don't get pissy because I said your fantasy idea of erasing race from the dictionary won't work, colour is a fact, its not going anywhere, difference is Americans are obsessed with it, the rest of the world isn't that shallow.

............ and these guys are supposed to be the leaders of the free world, sounds like your all going to hell in a hand basket the way you describe your own country.


The whole point is that black people are looked at differently, that's really all that needs to be said. Not by every single white person in America, but by so called "white America" in general. And to me the whole race issue here is getting worse. To many are taking sides of their own race out of racial bias instead of sitting back and being honest looking at the real issue, with an unbiased open minded view of it all. And that goes for both sides, I see young black men diving into these issues too much and building up all this animosity and hatred toward police and white people, and the on the opposite side I see white people doing the same because they think the black community is just whining about nothing, or they think that in many of these cases they deserved to be shot or discriminated against because of their actions. Point is there isn't enough people in the middle with a clear way of thinking about all of this to come to an agreement on how to go about fighting these issues.

And youR last sentence is correct. we are obsessed with it (in a certain sense), and the rest of the world isn't that shallow, that falls into my whole point actually and helps my argument, cause with that you are admitting we have a problem, but in the next sentence you're stating "it isn't that bad, they are just whining and playing the victim card". So you need to pick which argument you're going with here.

But this all started about the protest of the national anthem, which is a silly argument anyway. If you are offended or think that they shouldn't be doing that then that is your right to feel that way, however, they aren't hurting anyone physically, and I have already said it isn't the best way to do it, but in times like these you can't worry about everyones f***ing feelings and it's better to take a stand for what is right and bring the issues to the limelight, and that is what they have done. Time will only tell if it has worked or not, but if it ruffled a few feathers and hurt some feelings so be it, again, nobody is physically getting hurt, nobody is rioting and looting, so stop crying about them taking a knee and have a little bit of empathy FFS!! The hatred and animosity towards these players is f***ing uncalled for, especially for doing something so simple and peaceful.
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:14 pm

AOL wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:any other Americans here who want to second StLGooners sentiment?


Obviously I can’t speak for every black person in America since not every experience is the same, but I can speak for myself as someone who is half-black and half-white. I was one of the most academically gifted kids in my town growing up all throughout elementary, middle, and high school, but that didn’t matter. This occurred in a middle class and upper class town in a liberal part of the country in the 2000s and 2010s, not some backwater shithole in Mississippi.

I had some teachers who doubted my academic abilities just because “there’s no way he (meaning me) should be able to keep up with the other students (i.e., the full-white kids).” When the time came to apply for colleges, I was told to not get my hopes up for elite schools (i.e., top 25 universities) because “they’re very difficult to be accepted to” and I should focus on less appealing colleges, even though I clearly had the credentials for the elite schools. Yes, it’s an innocent statement at first glance, but it was often said with racial undertones. Well, it just so happened that I was accepted into most of the elite schools I applied to, but instead of congratulations from some people, I was met with, “Oh really, you actually got in? *scoff* Good luck trying to keep up with the other students.” Was it affirmative action? Idk possibly, but just using the SAT, I scored in the 99th percentile with a 2280 (max was 2400), so it’s not like I was some pity admit. Academically, I was just as competitive as the white and Asian kids.

Now, just imagine how much harder it is for a black kid from the ghetto to be seen as a peer, compared to my situation as a half-white kid who grew up in a good neighborhood. They barely stand a chance, and it’s a travesty because there’s so much untapped potential being left to rot.

To answer your question of if black kids have it harder than Asian kids: I’ll have to say yes. Asians are the model minority here in America and have the highest household income of any racial group. It’s an uphill battle for opportunities for black people because they're always going to have to turn it up to 11, and even then, they'll have people doubting their abilities—not everyone obviously, but a fair amount. It’s because statistically, black people are the poorest racial group in America (yep, even worse than Native Americans who barely survived genocide), stemming from decades upon decades of societal oppression, leading to the stereotype that blacks are lazy, stupid, and criminals. The reality is black people as a whole don’t have the same opportunities as other races, with Native Americans as the only group that can lay claim to being worse off.

And to answer your other question of if it really is that bad here: Yup, it definitely can be. I have black friends from college who were constantly harassed by the police when they were growing up simply because they were walking in a group with their black friends, being normal kids and teens. Also your characterization of baggy pants is no longer representative of black people; most wear fitting clothes these days just like everyone else. And you overestimate what wearing a suit can do; an appalling amount of people would assume the person wearing a suit was coming from or going to a court case.

Now, is it all bad? No, there are plenty of Americans who look past color, but there's still a long way to go. But as you said, it's also partly a class issue; however, you're overstating the class portion. Kanye West said it best: "Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coupe."


Well said, Thank you!

I used to get pulled over as a teenager cause I hung around a black kid with a huge afro, and no BS, one time the cop pulled us over and I asked him why I was pulled over, cause I didn't do anything illegal, and without hesitation he said "cause I saw your friends afro".

Again, not every cop is like that, and not every white person is either like said above, but it's a problem. Not the worst problem in the world and I know other countries have way worse issues, but that don't mean that our issue here isn't important.
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:50 pm

StLGooner wrote:But this all started about the protest of the national anthem, which is a silly argument anyway. If you are offended or think that they shouldn't be doing that then that is your right to feel that way, however, they aren't hurting anyone physically, and I have already said it isn't the best way to do it, but in times like these you can't worry about everyones f***ing feelings and it's better to take a stand for what is right and bring the issues to the limelight, and that is what they have done. Time will only tell if it has worked or not, but if it ruffled a few feathers and hurt some feelings so be it, again, nobody is physically getting hurt, nobody is rioting and looting, so stop crying about them taking a knee and have a little bit of empathy FFS!! The hatred and animosity towards these players is f***ing uncalled for, especially for doing something so simple and peaceful.


I'll tell you why I say that, because as I said England isn't as bad as you have it in the US, the thing that they are most racist about atm is about Muslims, now I say "race" because the Far Right who have been attacking pakistani's since the 1970's know that in today's politically correct world they can't get away with racial hatred so instead they use their religion to go after them.
It also doesn't help when all our wars are focused on Islamic countries and obviously the terrorism.

............. however.

If black or Arabic, Turkish footballers pulled that stunt (what the NFL are doing) during World Cup football games etc there would be fkin uproar, I promise you.
As bad if not worse than what your seeing in the USA, that is why I don't agree with it, they are using inflammatory behaviour to try and get a good outcome and its not going to happen.

E.g

It would be like Welbeck kneeling down during the Queens anthem in a WC game for England, I can tell you now that would go down like a fkin lead balloon.

This is why I'm not supporting it or advising it for Americans, its not because I don't think the cause is just, but why would I advise or condone actions to Americans which I know would turn into a hotbed of hate in the UK.

I honestly feel Americans have lost all sense of socially acceptable behaviour toward each other, my advice to African Americans is just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Honestly when I see some of the BLM activists online they have so much Far Left hate there is no talking to them, sitting in the middle of freeways just because they know it annoys people.

Agitation will never have a good result.
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Re: American Politics

Postby GoonerAlexandre » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Mcclean does it
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Re: American Politics

Postby StLGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:44 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But this all started about the protest of the national anthem, which is a silly argument anyway. If you are offended or think that they shouldn't be doing that then that is your right to feel that way, however, they aren't hurting anyone physically, and I have already said it isn't the best way to do it, but in times like these you can't worry about everyones f***ing feelings and it's better to take a stand for what is right and bring the issues to the limelight, and that is what they have done. Time will only tell if it has worked or not, but if it ruffled a few feathers and hurt some feelings so be it, again, nobody is physically getting hurt, nobody is rioting and looting, so stop crying about them taking a knee and have a little bit of empathy FFS!! The hatred and animosity towards these players is f***ing uncalled for, especially for doing something so simple and peaceful.


I'll tell you why I say that, because as I said England isn't as bad as you have it in the US, the thing that they are most racist about atm is about Muslims, now I say "race" because the Far Right who have been attacking pakistani's since the 1970's know that in today's politically correct world they can't get away with racial hatred so instead they use their religion to go after them.
It also doesn't help when all our wars are focused on Islamic countries and obviously the terrorism.

............. however.

If black or Arabic, Turkish footballers pulled that stunt (what the NFL are doing) during World Cup football games etc there would be fkin uproar, I promise you.
As bad if not worse than what your seeing in the USA, that is why I don't agree with it, they are using inflammatory behaviour to try and get a good outcome and its not going to happen.

E.g

It would be like Welbeck kneeling down during the Queens anthem in a WC game for England, I can tell you now that would go down like a fkin lead balloon.

This is why I'm not supporting it or advising it for Americans, its not because I don't think the cause is just, but why would I advise or condone actions to Americans which I know would turn into a hotbed of hate in the UK.

I honestly feel Americans have lost all sense of socially acceptable behaviour toward each other, my advice to African Americans is just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Honestly when I see some of the BLM activists online they have so much Far Left hate there is no talking to them, sitting in the middle of freeways just because they know it annoys people.

Agitation will never have a good result.


So you don't like it just because it would cause an uproar in your country? That is a new reason that I haven't heard yet, but it just seems very....... well I don't know........ silly I guess. Maybe I'm missing something though. But it is causing an uproar here.

And it's fine if some don't like it, I get that. It's fine that some soldiers feel offended about it, I get that. But to have so much hatred towards these players that has been spewed out by the media, people on social media, and the far right is so uncalled for, it just makes you think that these are the people that are the problem and are the racist. I obviously am aware that not all are, but I'm sure we could agree that this only makes the real racist even more bigoted and racist, and those voices along with the ones on the fence about it all are making it much worse of an issue that it really is.
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Re: American Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:17 pm

It will cause an uproar = hate, racism, anger toward a minority who is getting enough of that already.

Not sure why that's not coming across to you (especially in the situation your living in), its a negative action, which will invite further negativity.

Am I the only one who gets that?

They say violence begets violence well in this case deliberate aggravation will cause aggravation in return and oh look .......... we get the United States round about now.

........ and that's the road you want to continue down? good luck to the lot of you.
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