West Brom Vs Arsenal | Premiership 19/03/2011

[CynicalGooner]

Sorry Inch but it's definitely not all in my mind, I don't even have to ask others to back me up on this because I've seen it argued elsewhere before. The B52 fan club is anti Chamakh and more to the point, anti any player that blocks Bendtner from the first team, I see that as a fact as clear as day. It doesn't mean you want him to miss a sitter in the 90th minute at 0-0 in so don't throw out the tired clichés

GG if I tried to quote that my PS3 would explode, I'll prolly answer it in some way tomorrow. I don't understand the Diaby - Nasri reference though as Nasri is obviously ten times the player Diaby is. If you mean do I prefer Nasri to Diaby then yes, but that isn't from any special favouritism, it's because I can't stand the sight of Diaby (and only him) as you know. You saying you can't stand the sight of anyone who is not Nicklas B52 Bendtner?

[CynicalGooner]

I expected Chamakh to get 10-15 a season and hes got that. Not worried about him. He'll improve even more next season

I agree. He is decent back up but not a first teamer, just like Bendtner, Koscielny, Eboue and various others. But none of them are more than back-up and as long as that remains the case (whether we sell first team players or not) then I'm fine with them

Unlike certain other current players

If Chamakh was meant to be back-up then logically that means we only have one first team striker!

If Bendy, Chamakh and Vela are all back-up it's only RVP!
In the past we've always had two top quality strikers and I don't see why that should change especially when RVP spends all season injured.

But we play 451 you only need 1 first team striker. If we were to go back to 442 as the staple then I'd definitely want another top quality striker

[Inchpräctice]

Sorry Inch but it's definitely not all in my mind, I don't even have to ask others to back me up on this because I've seen it argued elsewhere before. The B52 fan club is anti Chamakh and more to the point, anti any player that blocks Bendtner from the first team, I see that as a fact as clear as day. It doesn't mean you want him to miss a sitter in the 90th minute at 0-0 in so don't throw out the tired clichés

I don't know what you mean by don't throw out the tired cliches but anyway....

What you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If the 'fan club' (or tiny tiny minority of people who actually think B52 is a decent player) wanted him to start every game then maybe they would be anti every player that blocks him but so far I haven't seen anyone say that he should start every game.

Since he signed for the club I can only think of one or two players who've genuinely blocked him. RVP, Adebayor and maybe Chamakh.
I think we both know that no fan on this forum has said he should start ahead of RVP, that's madness.
People only wanted him to start ahead of Ade when Ade was having his shit season, which is fair enough imo.
Mainly because when Bendy was shit at least he made an effort and connected a few passes instead of being lazy and constantly giving the ball away.

Chamakh has only started ahead of him because he was injured or not sharp enough. I don't have a problem with that at all.
For the most part I trust the manager to make the right decision on who is on the better form. I only want B52 to start ahead of other players if they're on shit form and that goes for anyone in the team.

[Inchpräctice]

I expected Chamakh to get 10-15 a season and hes got that. Not worried about him. He'll improve even more next season

I agree. He is decent back up but not a first teamer, just like Bendtner, Koscielny, Eboue and various others. But none of them are more than back-up and as long as that remains the case (whether we sell first team players or not) then I'm fine with them

Unlike certain other current players

If Chamakh was meant to be back-up then logically that means we only have one first team striker!

If Bendy, Chamakh and Vela are all back-up it's only RVP!
In the past we've always had two top quality strikers and I don't see why that should change especially when RVP spends all season injured.

But we play 451 you only need 1 first team striker. If we were to go back to 442 as the staple then I'd definitely want another top quality striker

Right but as I said even if we play 451 who do we play when RVP is injured which is most of the time?

[Fabrestuta]

Not getting into the Chamakh v Bendy debate, but what amazes me is Chamakh started out like a house on fire then hit a barren patch and wasn't played again for months. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes but that was very weird imo.

The fact that in the space of one season gooners went from calling him "just what we need" to "he's absolute rubbish" is also kind of mind boggling.

Behind the scenes we were told that he was 'tired' because he wasn't used to the pace of the Prem.

As for the change in opinion, it only reflects his performances really...

He is a lightweight I agree, but he has shown he can score goals. I was frankly disgusted when Wenger announced that he was tired, gave people more ammo to call our players poofs, should have been kept in house, but Chamakh was never the next Henry, as some people got giddy about, but neither is he Jimmy Carter. He is a decent player, imo he won't be any more than that, playing in the English game that is. If he can get say 15 league goals a season I'd class that as ok, people need to stop expecting every one of our forwards to get 30/35 a season.

I don't know who these people were who thought he'd be the next Henry but if I remember correctly the thread about him on here went on for 34928 pages and most of that contained people going 'meh'.
People kept bleating on about the fact that he only scored 12 goals in 7 years or whatever the f***ing number was, so no-one was expecting a 30 goal per season man.

I can only speak for myself and personally I'm disappointed because a) we needed another fox in the box not another SS type of player and b) if he's going to be the type of SS who doesn't score much but makes loads of assists then he needs to be a bit less shit.
It's his first season so we should give him some time to settle in but the bizarre thing is that initially he didn't seem to need any!

When I said "next Henry" it wasn't what people expected before he signed, but when he was banging in goals early a lot of people got waaaaay ahead of themselves and the "Chamakh is a God" comments started. When he stopped scoring it went to "Chamakh is a wart on the arsehole of mankind" comments.
Most of us were not too blown away by the Chamakh signing, but if you dredge that thread you will see plenty of people patting themselves on the back when he started off well, "I watched lots of French football and told you he was Pele" etc etc etc. The same people are the ones that have turned on him.

Its his first season for crying out loud. He is exactly what I expected him to be, but after every flippin game we have to go through the Chamakh v Bendy thing. Neither are, or ever will be, elite forwards. I don't think either is great, though I have defended Bendy for a long time, but I don't think either are crap.

Eduardo was lauded as a legend because he broke his leg (yes I know there's more to it than that but play along for the sake of argument), my point is, well I orgot where I was actually headed but I think you get my drift. People need to calm the f**k down if someone has a bad game, and doubly calm the f**k down if they have a good game.

[GunnGunn]

Sorry Inch but it's definitely not all in my mind, I don't even have to ask others to back me up on this because I've seen it argued elsewhere before. The B52 fan club is anti Chamakh and more to the point, anti any player that blocks Bendtner from the first team, I see that as a fact as clear as day. It doesn't mean you want him to miss a sitter in the 90th minute at 0-0 in so don't throw out the tired clichés

GG if I tried to quote that my PS3 would explode, I'll prolly answer it in some way tomorrow. I don't understand the Diaby - Nasri reference though as Nasri is obviously ten times the player Diaby is. If you mean do I prefer Nasri to Diaby then yes, but that isn't from any special favouritism, it's because I can't stand the sight of Diaby (and only him) as you know. You saying you can't stand the sight of anyone who is not Nicklas B52 Bendtner?

My point was Cyn, is that all people have players that are their fave's for one reason or another.

As for the B52 fan club, probably only a few including myself and Inch think Bendtner is a good player, and i have never been anti any player who blocks Bendtner from the first team because apart from RvP there isn't really anyone blocking him.

I have never said he is better than RvP and i have been a staunch advocate of playing both Chamakh and Bendtner up top in his absence, i think it could be a great partnership.

If we are going to play with one up top and RvP is injured, of course i want to see Bendtner play, why? Because Chamakh is the most frustrating striker known to man.

I know Bendtner is frustrating but damn, at least he tries to score and fucks up, Chamakh is not a very good decision maker, he needs to add a bit of selfishness to his game if we wants to become a better player, strikers up top on their own should be looking to do one thing, score, not hold up play and pass when there are better options available.

[Inchpräctice]

Its his first season for crying out loud. He is exactly what I expected him to be, but after every flippin game we have to go through the Chamakh v Bendy thing. Neither are, or ever will be, elite forwards. I don't think either is great, though I have defended Bendy for a long time, but I don't think either are crap.

Agreed.
I don't want to go through the Chamakh v Bendy thing after every game either. I think the thread about it is more than enough and it put the issue to bed permanently as far as I was concerned.
I have no idea why it keeps coming up and as I said I didn't even bring Bendy up today, someone else did.

People need to calm the f**k down if someone has a bad game, and doubly calm the f**k down if they have a good game.

Agree again.
I've slated Chamakh today during my rant but to be fair I've done it based on ten games not one.
He was consistently great at the start of the season and he's consistently bad now, which I assume is why he's on the bench so much.
As for my expectations of him before he signed, they were lower than his early season form and higher than his current form if you get what I mean.
He was better than I thought he'd be initially and now he's far worse than I thought he'd be.
Something has to change next season but f**k knows what.

[GunnGunn]

Not getting into the Chamakh v Bendy debate, but what amazes me is Chamakh started out like a house on fire then hit a barren patch and wasn't played again for months. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes but that was very weird imo.

The fact that in the space of one season gooners went from calling him "just what we need" to "he's absolute rubbish" is also kind of mind boggling.

Behind the scenes we were told that he was 'tired' because he wasn't used to the pace of the Prem.

As for the change in opinion, it only reflects his performances really...

He is a lightweight I agree, but he has shown he can score goals. I was frankly disgusted when Wenger announced that he was tired, gave people more ammo to call our players poofs, should have been kept in house, but Chamakh was never the next Henry, as some people got giddy about, but neither is he Jimmy Carter. He is a decent player, imo he won't be any more than that, playing in the English game that is. If he can get say 15 league goals a season I'd class that as ok, people need to stop expecting every one of our forwards to get 30/35 a season.

I don't know who these people were who thought he'd be the next Henry but if I remember correctly the thread about him on here went on for 34928 pages and most of that contained people going 'meh'.
People kept bleating on about the fact that he only scored 12 goals in 7 years or whatever the f***ing number was, so no-one was expecting a 30 goal per season man.

I can only speak for myself and personally I'm disappointed because a) we needed another fox in the box not another SS type of player and b) if he's going to be the type of SS who doesn't score much but makes loads of assists then he needs to be a bit less shit.
It's his first season so we should give him some time to settle in but the bizarre thing is that initially he didn't seem to need any!

When I said "next Henry" it wasn't what people expected before he signed, but when he was banging in goals early a lot of people got waaaaay ahead of themselves and the "Chamakh is a God" comments started. When he stopped scoring it went to "Chamakh is a wart on the arsehole of mankind" comments.
Most of us were not too blown away by the Chamakh signing, but if you dredge that thread you will see plenty of people patting themselves on the back when he started off well, "I watched lots of French football and told you he was Pele" etc etc etc. The same people are the ones that have turned on him.

Its his first season for crying out loud. He is exactly what I expected him to be, but after every flippin game we have to go through the Chamakh v Bendy thing. Neither are, or ever will be, elite forwards. I don't think either is great, though I have defended Bendy for a long time, but I don't think either are crap.

Eduardo was lauded as a legend because he broke his leg (yes I know there's more to it than that but play along for the sake of argument), my point is, well I orgot where I was actually headed but I think you get my drift. People need to calm the f**k down if someone has a bad game, and doubly calm the f**k down if they have a good game.

I agree with that, the only reason i argue a lot about Bendtner is because people bring up this debate, if people didn't talk about it i wouldn't be fussed.

I also agree that neither of them are going to be Elite players in the Henry bracket, but both of them can certainly be quality strikers capable of scoring 20+ goals a season and because of the types of strikers they are, they will often chip in with a ton of assists as well.

Its why i want to go back to a 2 up top system ASA f***ing P, all teams need a striker like Bendtner and Chamakh and a striker like RvP, we saw today just how effective the 4-4-2 can be.

[Fabrestuta]

I agree with that, the only reason i argue a lot about Bendtner is because people bring up this debate, if people didn't talk about it i wouldn't be fussed.

I also agree that neither of them are going to be Elite players in the Henry bracket, but both of them can certainly be quality strikers capable of scoring 20+ goals a season and because of the types of strikers they are, they will often chip in with a ton of assists as well.

Its why i want to go back to a 2 up top system ASA f***ing P, all teams need a striker like Bendtner and Chamakh and a striker like RvP, we saw today just how effective the 4-4-2 can be.

Agreed. If people got off the comparison battle we wouldn't need to bring this up every week, and if Wenger played a friggin 4-4-2 instead of leaving van Persie alone up front and ALWAYS bringing a second striker on we also could lay this to rest. Without certain players our 4-5-1 is as toothless as a 90 year old zombie, but les boss insists in doing the same thing all the time.

I say it all the time, but the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time.

[Leody]

Not getting into the Chamakh v Bendy debate, but what amazes me is Chamakh started out like a house on fire then hit a barren patch and wasn't played again for months. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes but that was very weird imo.

The fact that in the space of one season gooners went from calling him "just what we need" to "he's absolute rubbish" is also kind of mind boggling.

What's mind boggling is how Almunia ever got a job as a professional footballer...

I know mate. I am truly amazed. How many points do we need to drop before Wenger realizes that he is just not good enough.

Its not our fault our two star keepers of the season got injured, its not Moonia's either.

Let's not go overboard on Flappy and Sneezy... they've both been solid, but hardly setting the world alight with their greatness. Good yes, stars... debatable.

Sneezy is a very large part of the reason we don't have a new trophy in the cabinet...

If we spent 1/10th what the average PL sides had in the last 5 years on transfers on just a CB and a GK, we'd have spent triple the amount to sign the two best at those positions in the world. But alas, we'd rather profit from selling our players. No need to attempt to fill the GLARING weaknesses in the squad.

Loving Arsenal is like loving a heroin addict. You know that they're killing themselves, you know what they need to do to save themselves, so does everybody else... but alas, no matter what you say or how hard you try they just keep doing the same destructive things.

[GunnGunn]

Not getting into the Chamakh v Bendy debate, but what amazes me is Chamakh started out like a house on fire then hit a barren patch and wasn't played again for months. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes but that was very weird imo.

The fact that in the space of one season gooners went from calling him "just what we need" to "he's absolute rubbish" is also kind of mind boggling.

What's mind boggling is how Almunia ever got a job as a professional footballer...

I know mate. I am truly amazed. How many points do we need to drop before Wenger realizes that he is just not good enough.

Its not our fault our two star keepers of the season got injured, its not Moonia's either.

Let's not go overboard on Flappy and Sneezy... they've both been solid, but hardly setting the world alight with their greatness. Good yes, stars... debatable.

Sneezy is a very large part of the reason we don't have a new trophy in the cabinet...

If we spent 1/10th what the average PL sides had in the last 5 years on transfers on just a CB and a GK, we'd have spent triple the amount to sign the two best at those positions in the world. But alas, we'd rather profit from selling our players. No need to attempt to fill the GLARING weaknesses in the squad.

Loving Arsenal is like loving a heroin addict. You know that they're killing themselves, you know what they need to do to save themselves, so does everybody else... but alas, no matter what you say or how hard you try they just keep doing the same destructive things.

Lol, good analogy, shame its true...

Fabianski was a bit more than just solid IMO, won some games for us with his saves, it could have been very different had it not been for his performances.

Ches has been solid and seemed to have settled the defence.

The way i see it is they have both been better than what we have had in recent seasons, so much so that it didn't become an issue, now it is an issue as we are back to square one due to their injuries.

You have to ask yourself what if Fabianski hadn't gotten injured...Would we now have a trophy? Would we still be in the FA Cup? Would we be second in the table?

We will never know, all i know is how f***ing unlucky does a team have to be in order to lose both its first choice keepers and both its first choice CB's?

Its a joke.

[Leody]

GG, I really think it's greatness by comparison with Fabianski and Ches. When you look at what they've done this year after what we've had to deal with the last 2-3 years they look much better than they really are.

Don't get me wrong, they've been good. But they're nowhere near the level of a Cech, Buffon (in his prime), VDS, Casillas... you get the idea. They're not the type of keeper that's going to win you the title, lead you to glory in Europe and command the defense... yet. They could be one day, but right now they're average keepers for the EPL, maybe slightly more.

[Leody]

I will add, Chez certainly looks to have the makings of a great keeper. But due to his youth he's shown he's still prone to make mistakes, and doesn't command his defense. Something we need BADLY right now.

[Fabrestuta]

I have to agree with senor muffin top (as leody should be called...but thats just me). Neither Ches nor Flappy strike me as world class keepers in the making, BUT, they are still young so who knows. Out of the 2 I'd say Chesney because of his confidence, but Flappy has a bit of a van der Saar air about him. Well apart from not being able to command his dog let alone his 6 yard box. If he doesn't grow a pair he'll never amount to anything. Thats why I think Chesney has a better chance.

We don't need a project though, if we had a top TOP class keeper we'd have won some trophies recently and the boo boys would be quiet. We don't though and all the outfield tinkering in the world wont make the world of difference.

We need a Seaman and a captain, a real captain. Might sound simplistic but if we'd had either or both we'd not be hearing the no trophy whinging.

[VCC]

GG, I really think it's greatness by comparison with Fabianski and Ches. When you look at what they've done this year after what we've had to deal with the last 2-3 years they look much better than they really are.

Don't get me wrong, they've been good. But they're nowhere near the level of a Cech, Buffon (in his prime), VDS, Casillas... you get the idea. They're not the type of keeper that's going to win you the title, lead you to glory in Europe and command the defense... yet. They could be one day, but right now they're average keepers for the EPL, maybe slightly more.

Dead right Fabs and Ches are great 2nd choice keepers and stars of the future.We needed a big name keeper at the start of the season and we are seeing why,the point about organising the defense is so true,Almunia is so pathetic words fail me, he is a Championship league keeper at best.The average injury on the long side at most clubs is 4-6 weeks this is about the length of games you can rely on consistancy from average or developing keepers,I would love a big name keeper and maybe with Jens back he may stick around 1-2 seasons and give us that once the pre-season is over and he is back in the grove,this will give Szez and Fabs time to develop in the cup competitions and if Jens gets injured.Dont right Jens off being around easy for keepers to play in their early fortys.